College rank vs. Law School Rank

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mrm2083
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College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby mrm2083 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:49 am

I found a thread comparing high school rank to law school rank but can't find anything comparing college to law school. List your college GPA/rank compared to your LS rank and school.

270910
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby 270910 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:55 am

This is stupid. There is a very weak correlation between undergrad rank and law school rank, between LSAT and law school rank, or between LSAT + UGPA and law school rank.

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Bert
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby Bert » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:01 pm

I generally agree with DB's view on this. For example, if a school takes mainly 90%ile LSAT scorers and throws them into classes together, only 10% of them will be in the top 10% of the class, and 50% of them will be at the bottom end of their class ranking. You will get the result that LSAT score in no way correlates to performance in law school. These comparison threads really serve no useful purpose.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:05 pm

Bert wrote:I generally agree with DB's view on this. For example, if a school takes mainly 90%ile LSAT scorers and throws them into classes together, only 10% of them will be in the top 10% of the class, and 50% of them will be at the bottom end of their class ranking. You will get the result that LSAT score in no way correlates to performance in law school. These comparison threads really serve no useful purpose.

:?:

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romothesavior
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby romothesavior » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:06 pm

Bert wrote:I generally agree with DB's view on this. For example, if a school takes mainly 90%ile LSAT scorers and throws them into classes together, only 10% of them will be in the top 10% of the class, and 50% of them will be at the bottom end of their class ranking. You will get the result that LSAT score in no way correlates to performance in law school. These comparison threads really serve no useful purpose.


RC fail.

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Bert
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby Bert » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:19 pm

romothesavior wrote:RC fail.


How so? I am agreeing with your assertion that there is a very low correlation between LSAT score and law school rank. Maybe I could have phrased my posting a little better but I don't think there is an RC fail there.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:07 pm

Bert wrote:
romothesavior wrote:RC fail.


How so? I am agreeing with your assertion that there is a very low correlation between LSAT score and law school rank. Maybe I could have phrased my posting a little better but I don't think there is an RC fail there.

When you're in a hole, stop digging.

CanadianWolf
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:09 pm

Is there a strong correlation between SAT CR score & LSAT score? I have been told that there is a website that predicts LSAT scores based on one's CR score on the SAT.

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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby 270910 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:10 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Is there a strong correlation between SAT CR score & LSAT score? I have been told that there is a website that predicts LSAT scores based on one's CR score on the SAT.


No.

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tome
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby tome » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:58 am

romothesavior wrote:
Bert wrote:I generally agree with DB's view on this. For example, if a school takes mainly 90%ile LSAT scorers and throws them into classes together, only 10% of them will be in the top 10% of the class, and 50% of them will be at the bottom end of their class ranking. You will get the result that LSAT score in no way correlates to performance in law school. These comparison threads really serve no useful purpose.


RC fail.


Reasoning ability fail.

Everything he says makes perfect sense. Class rank at UG will have no meaningful relationship to class rank at law school. There are a couple of suppressed premises in there, but nothing that is not conventional wisdom.

On a related point, the people who absolutely dominated in my section last semester were people with huge LSATs and low UG GPAs

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Rock Chalk
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby Rock Chalk » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:13 pm

.
Last edited by Rock Chalk on Wed May 16, 2012 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TTT-LS
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby TTT-LS » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:01 pm

.
Last edited by TTT-LS on Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A'nold
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby A'nold » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:08 pm

My experience, and I'm sure disco will agree, is that higher LSAT scores generally do better in ls relative to their lower-scoring peers, especially when the difference is substantial. 8)

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whuts4lunch
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby whuts4lunch » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:28 pm

comments like that from a'nold make me second guess my school choice :oops:

Posner
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby Posner » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:57 pm

.....
Last edited by Posner on Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

270910
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby 270910 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:07 pm

A'nold wrote:My experience, and I'm sure disco will agree, is that higher LSAT scores generally do better in ls relative to their lower-scoring peers, especially when the difference is substantial. 8)


TITCR. It's practically a 1 to 1 correlation. One prof last year told us we could sit out the exam if we just submitted our LSDAS report, she'd sort out the curve for us without the messiness of actually taking the test.

I actually don't know anybody with an LSAT score below the 75th percentile who even broke median at my school. Some of the <25% LSAT kids were dismissed early because their drooling was distracting during class.

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McBean
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby McBean » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:14 pm

So is anyone going to answer the OP's question?

I doubt there is much of a correlation between college and law school GPA & rank, considering that most law school students at the same law school were probably roughly around the same class rank (or at least in the same quarter) in undergrad and now are dispersed throughout the spectrum.

That being said, I just happen to have the same undergrad GPA and Law school GPA down to a hundredth of a point thus far, but I am only done with one semester and this is certain to change. Class rank is 1-5% better compared to undergrad.

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tome
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby tome » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:39 pm

disco_barred wrote:
A'nold wrote:My experience, and I'm sure disco will agree, is that higher LSAT scores generally do better in ls relative to their lower-scoring peers, especially when the difference is substantial. 8)


TITCR. It's practically a 1 to 1 correlation. One prof last year told us we could sit out the exam if we just submitted our LSDAS report, she'd sort out the curve for us without the messiness of actually taking the test.

I actually don't know anybody with an LSAT score below the 75th percentile who even broke median at my school. Some of the <25% LSAT kids were dismissed early because their drooling was distracting during class.


It is just a statistical fact. Get used to it. No one is saying your LSAT score determines your LS grades, but denying the simple truth that they are correlated is fucking stupid.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:13 pm

disco_barred wrote:
A'nold wrote:My experience, and I'm sure disco will agree, is that higher LSAT scores generally do better in ls relative to their lower-scoring peers, especially when the difference is substantial. 8)


TITCR. It's practically a 1 to 1 correlation. One prof last year told us we could sit out the exam if we just submitted our LSDAS report, she'd sort out the curve for us without the messiness of actually taking the test.

I actually don't know anybody with an LSAT score below the 75th percentile who even broke median at my school. Some of the <25% LSAT kids were dismissed early because their drooling was distracting during class.


Now that I'm done lol'ing-- There have been multiple studies done on this, and the median correlation between LSAT score and 1L performance is 0.33, according to this study: http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/LSAT-Score-Pre ... rmance.pdf

I once asked YCRevolution to make me a 1L GPA Predictor. He told me it would be quite impossible, for just this reason.

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whuts4lunch
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby whuts4lunch » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:31 pm

I'm not sure how to interpret a .33 correlation though, because it doesn't address the extent of LSAT differences. I imagine students with 175 LSAT scores would outrank students with 150 LSAT scores at a much higher rate than 167s would outrank 158s.

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A'nold
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby A'nold » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:40 pm

In all seriousness, you could have taken the LSAT cold and drunk with the flu, scored a 148, and finish first in your class against median LSATs of like 160, although I would definitely say the odds are against you if you studied for 6 months, took a course, and "upped" your score to a 150 while the median at your school is like a 157.....

At least at my school (a low ranked school) you can see the difference in the way people think/how quick they are and as a result their grades with LSAT score pretty accurately predicting this, at least from the people I've talked to.

As evidence, the academic services office at my school checked the stats for previous years and students w/ a 160 LSAT (above the school's 75%), averaged around a 3.0 which is Dean's List here. Median for these students was like top 1/4. I mean, yeah, you might not get a perfect correlation where all of the >75% LSAT kids are in the top 10% of the class, but that is a pretty dang strong correlation for relative success.

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superserial
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby superserial » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:49 pm

A'nold wrote:At least at my school (a low ranked school) you can see the difference in the way people think/how quick they are and as a result their grades with LSAT score pretty accurately predicting this, at least from the people I've talked to.



right, because it's a low ranked school with a wide range of LSAT scores, spanning a wide range of percentiles.

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whuts4lunch
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby whuts4lunch » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:55 pm

So few people took the LSAT sick or something like that that its not even worth analyzing. I think its safe to assume that students almost always put themselves in the best position to do well on the test.

I know at UMiami the scholarship students place in the top third 82% of the time and only 9% of the non-scholarship students place in the top third.

I'm concerned, because I think my rational expectation is to fall in the middle of the class where I deposited, whereas at the schools I turned down I think I would have done very well. I can't help but feel like I made a mistake by going to a very challenging college where I was only in the middle of the class, and that it's going to happen to me all over again in law school.

*runs away, joins circus*

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OperaSoprano
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:57 pm

superserial wrote:
A'nold wrote:At least at my school (a low ranked school) you can see the difference in the way people think/how quick they are and as a result their grades with LSAT score pretty accurately predicting this, at least from the people I've talked to.



right, because it's a low ranked school with a wide range of LSAT scores, spanning a wide range of percentiles.


This was my hypothesis as well: At any given school, the smaller the range of LSAT scores, the lower the correlation between entering LSAT and 1L GPA.

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Joan Samuel Marat
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Re: College rank vs. Law School Rank

Postby Joan Samuel Marat » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:59 pm

tome wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Bert wrote:I generally agree with DB's view on this. For example, if a school takes mainly 90%ile LSAT scorers and throws them into classes together, only 10% of them will be in the top 10% of the class, and 50% of them will be at the bottom end of their class ranking. You will get the result that LSAT score in no way correlates to performance in law school. These comparison threads really serve no useful purpose.


RC fail.


Reasoning ability fail.

Everything he says makes perfect sense. Class rank at UG will have no meaningful relationship to class rank at law school. There are a couple of suppressed premises in there, but nothing that is not conventional wisdom.

On a related point, the people who absolutely dominated in my section last semester were people with huge LSATs and low UG GPAs


GPA FAIL. Law School FAIL.




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