Chemerinsky treatise is... Forum
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Chemerinsky treatise is...
Ok, so the TLS wisdom promotes this hornbook as gold, however I feel like its a little too much like a slightly condensed version of the case book. I understand people think its great, but I feel like I have to supplement this hornbook with another hornbook. Would you guys recommend the EE?
- Aeroplane
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
People like Chemerinsky because Con Law cases are particularly annoying to extract rules from, and Chemerinsky helps because it concisely tells you the BLL & major policy implications of the major cases. If you understand the material your professor is teaching (with or without Chemerinsky), then you don't need another hornbook. If you are still confused, or if your professor has some quirky take on Con Law that Chemerinsky doesn't account for, then look for another source.
It sounds like you want a supplement that will provide you with some "new" information that's not in the casebook and I don't see why that would be helpful (IMO would be more likely to hurt you).
It sounds like you want a supplement that will provide you with some "new" information that's not in the casebook and I don't see why that would be helpful (IMO would be more likely to hurt you).
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
What you are actually noticing is that Con Law sucks. Sadly, there's no getting around that.
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
..overrated. Listen to your prof and take excellent notes. Clear up any questions you have over office hours/email. Run hypos through old exams. Con Law is so rich with intellectual wealth, you might as well focus solely on getting your prof's take on it. The doctrine itself, like all of law, isn't challenging at all. But understanding the (often conflicting) principles that motivate it is -- and that's what makes it fun.
- BradyToMoss
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
solidsnake wrote:..overrated. Listen to your prof and take excellent notes. Clear up any questions you have over office hours/email. Run hypos through old exams. Con Law is so rich with intellectual wealth, you might as well focus solely on getting your prof's take on it. The doctrine itself, like all of law, isn't challenging at all. But understanding the (often conflicting) principles that motivate it is -- and that's what makes it fun.
Have to disagree with this. The way Chemerinsky presents the information is ideal for preparation for most conlaw exams. Provided your professor is not way out there, the supplement is the way to go.
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
I guess it depends on how idiosyncratic your prof is and whether Chemerinsky is a good match ideologically. I use the Choper text and found Chemerinsky pretty much useless at worst and redundant at best. But to each his own.BradyToMoss wrote:solidsnake wrote:..overrated. Listen to your prof and take excellent notes. Clear up any questions you have over office hours/email. Run hypos through old exams. Con Law is so rich with intellectual wealth, you might as well focus solely on getting your prof's take on it. The doctrine itself, like all of law, isn't challenging at all. But understanding the (often conflicting) principles that motivate it is -- and that's what makes it fun.
Have to disagree with this. The way Chemerinsky presents the information is ideal for preparation for most conlaw exams. Provided your professor is not way out there, the supplement is the way to go.
Last edited by solidsnake on Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
- badfish
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
con law is awesome.
that is all.
that is all.
- vanwinkle
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
Renzo wrote:What you are actually noticing is that Con Law sucks. Sadly, there's no getting around that.
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
Agreed. I have this unsettling feeling that it's all downhill after con law..badfish wrote:con law is awesome.
that is all.
- lostmymojo
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
Conn Law isn't easy by any stretch of the imagination, but it is a really interesting course IMO.
Anyway, with regard to the Chemerinsky treatise... It's not so great for your crunch time final exam type stuff, but it's thorough enough and helpful enough to justify using it as a surrogate for the casebook in some instances. I think our Prof. might actually have been teaching from the treatise. My notes suggest as much.
EDIT: We did use the Chemerinsky casebook. Probably should have mentioned that.
Anyway, with regard to the Chemerinsky treatise... It's not so great for your crunch time final exam type stuff, but it's thorough enough and helpful enough to justify using it as a surrogate for the casebook in some instances. I think our Prof. might actually have been teaching from the treatise. My notes suggest as much.
EDIT: We did use the Chemerinsky casebook. Probably should have mentioned that.
- kings84_wr
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
The E and E is awful.
I like Chemerinsky, but I don't think with my particular prof its really that helpful, he tends to teach in a way where its very unique to his own views and style. But still the only thing that is close to helpful is chemerinsky, anything else for Con law is really terrible.
I like Chemerinsky, but I don't think with my particular prof its really that helpful, he tends to teach in a way where its very unique to his own views and style. But still the only thing that is close to helpful is chemerinsky, anything else for Con law is really terrible.
- BradyToMoss
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
Forgot to mentions this. Certainly TCR.kings84_wr wrote:The E and E is awful.
I like Chemerinsky, but I don't think with my particular prof its really that helpful, he tends to teach in a way where its very unique to his own views and style. But still the only thing that is close to helpful is chemerinsky, anything else for Con law is really terrible.
- annapavlova
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
While Chemerinsky has helped me understand Con Law, it has certainly not changed the fact that I hate it so so so much.
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
I usually have to play "hide the erection" in con law. There's just something about ripeness, mootness, and standing in general that just SETS ME ON FIRE.
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
I would think the Commerce Clause really gets you going, given Gibbons v. Ogden.engineer wrote:I usually have to play "hide the erection" in con law. There's just something about ripeness, mootness, and standing in general that just SETS ME ON FIRE.
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
+1 billion.Renzo wrote:What you are actually noticing is that Con Law sucks. Sadly, there's no getting around that.
I'd take Civ Pro in any orifice 3 times a day over Con Law.
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
I'm pretty disappointed in Chemerinsky as well. I just cracked it open a few days ago to see if it would add anything to my preparation for the Con Law final, and it is pretty much just a restatement of what I have in my notes. In fact, it seems possible my professor has been reading out of the book the entire semester.
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- pany1985
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
Lawrence wrote:I'm pretty disappointed in Chemerinsky as well. I just cracked it open a few days ago to see if it would add anything to my preparation for the Con Law final, and it is pretty much just a restatement of what I have in my notes. In fact, it seems possible my professor has been reading out of the book the entire semester.
Well that's hardly Chemerinsky's fault
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
+ infinity. I despise this class, and cannot pay attention at all when I attend. I have skipped more con law classes than anything else by far in law school.fortissimo wrote:+1 billion.Renzo wrote:What you are actually noticing is that Con Law sucks. Sadly, there's no getting around that.
I'd take Civ Pro in any orifice 3 times a day over Con Law.
and lol at pany1985's comment.
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
Chemerinsky treatise is...
TCR
No, seriously. Can't count the number of times professor called on someone in class, where the student repeated some section of Chemerinksy almost verbatim and the professor either acted, or pretended to act, amazed.
TCR
No, seriously. Can't count the number of times professor called on someone in class, where the student repeated some section of Chemerinksy almost verbatim and the professor either acted, or pretended to act, amazed.
- dood
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
...
Last edited by dood on Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
No, it's not his fault. But I would hope a study aid would add something different than what you get from just listening in class. I personally find aids like the Civ Pro E&E which gives a lot of example problems to work through to be more helpful. However, I bought Chemerinsky knowing it was a treatise because it has such a great reputation. Maybe I just have a better Con Law teacher than most who explains things more clearly....who knowspany1985 wrote:Lawrence wrote:I'm pretty disappointed in Chemerinsky as well. I just cracked it open a few days ago to see if it would add anything to my preparation for the Con Law final, and it is pretty much just a restatement of what I have in my notes. In fact, it seems possible my professor has been reading out of the book the entire semester.
Well that's hardly Chemerinsky's fault
- Matthies
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Re: Chemerinsky treatise is...
I think it comes down to what your needing it for. If you're trying to understand the meaning/policy behind the rule/case (and you expect a policy type exam) the Chem is likely best. if however your needing good short concise rule statements and already understand the policy aspect and expect a BLL/issue spotter than go to your schools library and grab a copy the Barbri Convisor mini review outline. Just use it to check your understanding of the BLL and exceptions. Policy con law sucks ass, BLL con law is pretty easy once you realize there are only a few core areas they can test you and the exceptions within those areas.
There are really only 12 areas of law that can be tested on Con law each issue will fit into one of the 12 (also depends if you do Con law I and II or just one semester)
ARTICLE III - STANDING, RIPENESS, MOOTNESS
I. Article III Requirement of Cases and Controversies - Standing, Ripeness and Mootness
a. Standing
b. Ripeness
c. Mootness
d. Political Question Doctrine
COURT REVIEW
I. Supreme Court Review
II. Lower Federal Court Review
FEDERAL LEGISLATIVE POWER
I. The Federal Legislative Power
FEDERAL EXECUTIVE POWER
I. The Federal Executive Power
FEDERALISM
I. Federalism
a. Preemption
b. Dormant Commerce Clause
c. Privileges and Immunities Clause of Article IV
d. State Taxation of Interstate Commerce
e. Full Faith and Credit Clause
II. Structure of the Constitution's Protection of Individual Liberties
THE BILL OF RIGHTS
I. Application of The Bill of Rights
II. The Three Levels of Scrutiny
a. Strict Scrutiny:
b. Intermediate Scrutiny:
c. Rational Basis Scrutiny:
INDIVIDUAL RIGHT - PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS
I. Individual Rights - Procedural Due Process
ECONOMIC LIBERTIES
I. Economic Liberties - the Takings Clause
II. Economic Liberties - The Contracts Clause
SUBSTANTIVE DUE PROCESS
I. Substantive Due Process
II. The Right to Travel
III. The Right to Vote
IV. Rights and What Scrutiny They Trigger:
i. Right to Marry
ii. Right to Procreate
iii. Right to custody of Children
iv. Right to keep family together
v. Right to control raising of children
vi. Right to purchase and use contraceptives
vii. Right to travel
viii. Right to vote
ix. Freedom of Speech
x. Freedom of Association
xi. Free Exercise of religion (if the law is burdening religion is not a neutral law of general applicability)
xii. Abortion
xiii. Right to practice trade or profession
xiv. Right to physician assisted suicide
xv. Right to education
xvi. Right to engage in private consensual homosexual activity
xvii. Right to possess firearms
EQUAL PROTECTION
I. Equal Protection
II. Equal Protection - Classifications Based on Race and National Origin
III. Equal Protection - Gender Classifications
IV. Equal Protection - Alienage Classifications
V. Equal Protection - Illegitimacy
VI. Equal Protection - Rational Basis Review
SPEECH
I. The First Amendment Speech - Content Based Restrictions
II. The First Amendment Speech - Conduct Based Restrictions (Symbolic Speech)
III. The First Amendment Speech - Prior Restraints on Speech
IV. The First Amendment Speech - Vagueness and Overbreath
V. First Amendment Speech - Speech not Protected by First Amendment
a. General Rule: Obscenity and sexually-oriented speech - The test
b. General Rules Commercial Speech:
c. General Rules Defamation:
d. General Rules Privacy:
e. General Rules Speech by Government Employees:
f. General Rules All other restrictions:
VI. First Amendment Speech - Places Available for Speech - Time, Place and Manner Restrictions
VII. First Amendment Speech - Places Available for Speech - Public Forums
VIII. First Amendment Speech - Places Available for Speech - Non Public Forums
IX. First Amendment Speech - Freedom of Association
RELIGION
I. First Amendment Speech - Freedom of Religion - Free exercise Clause
II. First Amendment Speech - Freedom of Religion - Establishment Clause
III. First Amendment Speech - Freedom of Religion - Lemmon Test
There are really only 12 areas of law that can be tested on Con law each issue will fit into one of the 12 (also depends if you do Con law I and II or just one semester)
ARTICLE III - STANDING, RIPENESS, MOOTNESS
I. Article III Requirement of Cases and Controversies - Standing, Ripeness and Mootness
a. Standing
b. Ripeness
c. Mootness
d. Political Question Doctrine
COURT REVIEW
I. Supreme Court Review
II. Lower Federal Court Review
FEDERAL LEGISLATIVE POWER
I. The Federal Legislative Power
FEDERAL EXECUTIVE POWER
I. The Federal Executive Power
FEDERALISM
I. Federalism
a. Preemption
b. Dormant Commerce Clause
c. Privileges and Immunities Clause of Article IV
d. State Taxation of Interstate Commerce
e. Full Faith and Credit Clause
II. Structure of the Constitution's Protection of Individual Liberties
THE BILL OF RIGHTS
I. Application of The Bill of Rights
II. The Three Levels of Scrutiny
a. Strict Scrutiny:
b. Intermediate Scrutiny:
c. Rational Basis Scrutiny:
INDIVIDUAL RIGHT - PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS
I. Individual Rights - Procedural Due Process
ECONOMIC LIBERTIES
I. Economic Liberties - the Takings Clause
II. Economic Liberties - The Contracts Clause
SUBSTANTIVE DUE PROCESS
I. Substantive Due Process
II. The Right to Travel
III. The Right to Vote
IV. Rights and What Scrutiny They Trigger:
i. Right to Marry
ii. Right to Procreate
iii. Right to custody of Children
iv. Right to keep family together
v. Right to control raising of children
vi. Right to purchase and use contraceptives
vii. Right to travel
viii. Right to vote
ix. Freedom of Speech
x. Freedom of Association
xi. Free Exercise of religion (if the law is burdening religion is not a neutral law of general applicability)
xii. Abortion
xiii. Right to practice trade or profession
xiv. Right to physician assisted suicide
xv. Right to education
xvi. Right to engage in private consensual homosexual activity
xvii. Right to possess firearms
EQUAL PROTECTION
I. Equal Protection
II. Equal Protection - Classifications Based on Race and National Origin
III. Equal Protection - Gender Classifications
IV. Equal Protection - Alienage Classifications
V. Equal Protection - Illegitimacy
VI. Equal Protection - Rational Basis Review
SPEECH
I. The First Amendment Speech - Content Based Restrictions
II. The First Amendment Speech - Conduct Based Restrictions (Symbolic Speech)
III. The First Amendment Speech - Prior Restraints on Speech
IV. The First Amendment Speech - Vagueness and Overbreath
V. First Amendment Speech - Speech not Protected by First Amendment
a. General Rule: Obscenity and sexually-oriented speech - The test
b. General Rules Commercial Speech:
c. General Rules Defamation:
d. General Rules Privacy:
e. General Rules Speech by Government Employees:
f. General Rules All other restrictions:
VI. First Amendment Speech - Places Available for Speech - Time, Place and Manner Restrictions
VII. First Amendment Speech - Places Available for Speech - Public Forums
VIII. First Amendment Speech - Places Available for Speech - Non Public Forums
IX. First Amendment Speech - Freedom of Association
RELIGION
I. First Amendment Speech - Freedom of Religion - Free exercise Clause
II. First Amendment Speech - Freedom of Religion - Establishment Clause
III. First Amendment Speech - Freedom of Religion - Lemmon Test
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