How good are any of the following on a resume?

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JJCalderon
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How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby JJCalderon » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:48 pm

Just trying to see what's good and what's better. This is hypothetical.

1) Law review

2) Being a TA for a class

3) Getting the highest grade in a class (whatever those awards are called)

What else looks good, and how do these three compare and contrast to each other? Is it worth doing law review when it will probably bring down your GPA?

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nealric
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby nealric » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:05 pm

1. Useful- yes do it. Don't worry about your GPA.
2. Worthless
3. Worthless, except to the extent that it helps your overall grades. They are called CALI awards. But not all schools give them (mine doesn't).

JJCalderon
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby JJCalderon » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:14 pm

nealric wrote:1. Useful- yes do it. Don't worry about your GPA.
2. Worthless
3. Worthless, except to the extent that it helps your overall grades. They are called CALI awards. But not all schools give them (mine doesn't).


I see. So LR is the best shit since sliced bread, basically?

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WhiskeyGuy
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby WhiskeyGuy » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:24 pm

JJCalderon wrote:
nealric wrote:1. Useful- yes do it. Don't worry about your GPA.
2. Worthless
3. Worthless, except to the extent that it helps your overall grades. They are called CALI awards. But not all schools give them (mine doesn't).


I see. So LR is the best shit since sliced bread, basically?


LR is the best, yes. The second option is not worthless, especially if it is between doing that during your summer and living in your parents' basement.

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Jordan77
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby Jordan77 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:23 pm

A CALI award would probably be very helpful if in legal writing and/or a substantive law class that teaches the area of law you are interviewing for.

270910
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby 270910 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:28 pm

This question suggests you really don't know what's going on. Which is fine, because we all had to start somewhere.

First, law review tends to come as a result of good grades, and is a stellar credential. But for the majority of legal jobs that people want, hiring will happen after first year, so any kind of 'grade drop' from law review would be moot.

Grades are extraordinarily important, getting the top grade to put on a resume in a class matters but is basically reflective of a high GPA.

Finally, at most schools there basically aren't student TAs.

Impressive law school resumes are ones with big GPAs that don't indicate a lack of interest or involvement.

JJCalderon
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby JJCalderon » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:32 pm

Jordan77 wrote:A CALI award would probably be very helpful if in legal writing and/or a substantive law class that teaches the area of law you are interviewing for.


By the way, how do they decide who has the highest grade in a class like LRW, when it is a year long class? They just average the first and second semester grades, give two of them, or just for one semester?

rando
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby rando » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:33 pm

Jordan77 wrote:A CALI award would probably not be very helpful if in legal writing and/or a substantive law class that teaches the area of law you are interviewing for.

JJCalderon
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby JJCalderon » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:35 pm

rando wrote:
Jordan77 wrote:A CALI award would probably not be very helpful if in legal writing and/or a substantive law class that teaches the area of law you are interviewing for.


?

rando
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby rando » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:35 pm

WhiskeyGuy wrote:
JJCalderon wrote:
nealric wrote:1. Useful- yes do it. Don't worry about your GPA.
2. Worthless
3. Worthless, except to the extent that it helps your overall grades. They are called CALI awards. But not all schools give them (mine doesn't).


I see. So LR is the best shit since sliced bread, basically?


LR is the best, yes. The second option is not worthless, especially if it is between doing that during your summer and living in your parents' basement.


Who TA's over the summer? For an undergrad class?

LR is the only thing that matters of the above listed. And it probably won't effect your GPA unless you take an exec. board position 2nd semester.

rando
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby rando » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:37 pm

JJCalderon wrote:
rando wrote:
Jordan77 wrote:A CALI award would probably not be very helpful if in legal writing and/or a substantive law class that teaches the area of law you are interviewing for.


?


Negligible. GPA + LR is 95% of the game.

JJCalderon
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby JJCalderon » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:41 pm

rando wrote:
WhiskeyGuy wrote:
JJCalderon wrote:
nealric wrote:1. Useful- yes do it. Don't worry about your GPA.
2. Worthless
3. Worthless, except to the extent that it helps your overall grades. They are called CALI awards. But not all schools give them (mine doesn't).


I see. So LR is the best shit since sliced bread, basically?


LR is the best, yes. The second option is not worthless, especially if it is between doing that during your summer and living in your parents' basement.


Who TA's over the summer? For an undergrad class?

LR is the only thing that matters of the above listed. And it probably won't effect your GPA unless you take an exec. board position 2nd semester.



Not over the summer. Classes in my law school have TA's for every class.

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WhiskeyGuy
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby WhiskeyGuy » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:24 pm

JJCalderon wrote:
rando wrote:
WhiskeyGuy wrote:
JJCalderon wrote:
I see. So LR is the best shit since sliced bread, basically?


LR is the best, yes. The second option is not worthless, especially if it is between doing that during your summer and living in your parents' basement.


Who TA's over the summer? For an undergrad class?

LR is the only thing that matters of the above listed. And it probably won't effect your GPA unless you take an exec. board position 2nd semester.



Not over the summer. Classes in my law school have TA's for every class.


No, you folks read correctly: I have a friend TAing over the summer.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:36 pm

Not sure why you folks think highest grade in a class doesn't raise eyebrows in an interview, especially in some of the more difficult substantive courses. I got more than one comment/question during OCI about my A+s in Civ Pro and such; I'm sure that the A+s in secured transactions and bankruptcy will be helpful if I'm ever interviewing for, say, a bankruptcy court clerkship, or I'm trying to land a position in a bankruptcy practice.

In general, GPA is the most important things, but grades in specific classes do, in fact, matter. Particularly at very high levels of interviews (i.e. clerkships, V10s, "who are we giving an offer to" during the summer), everyone is going to have essentially the same resume lines. Other things will matter more--obviously, who gets an offer during a summer is mostly dependant on work quality over the summer--but all things equal, the person with a 3.8 in difficult classes is going to get the nod over the person with a 3.8 that is obviously gamed by easy classes.

rando
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:14 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Not sure why you folks think highest grade in a class doesn't raise eyebrows in an interview, especially in some of the more difficult substantive courses. I got more than one comment/question during OCI about my A+s in Civ Pro and such; I'm sure that the A+s in secured transactions and bankruptcy will be helpful if I'm ever interviewing for, say, a bankruptcy court clerkship, or I'm trying to land a position in a bankruptcy practice.

In general, GPA is the most important things, but grades in specific classes do, in fact, matter. Particularly at very high levels of interviews (i.e. clerkships, V10s, "who are we giving an offer to" during the summer), everyone is going to have essentially the same resume lines. Other things will matter more--obviously, who gets an offer during a summer is mostly dependant on work quality over the summer--but all things equal, the person with a 3.8 in difficult classes is going to get the nod over the person with a 3.8 that is obviously gamed by easy classes.


Have not been through clerkship interviewing yet. But everyone has the same classes going into OCI, so there is no issue as to padding classes. People that have a shot at V10 firms are generally equally impressive and schools being equal, the guy walking in before you with a 3.8 had A+'s too. They just need something to talk about in an interview.
As far as a bankruptcy judge goes, I would imagine that you're right. They no doubt like to see you do well in course material that applies specifically to them. So little hiring is done that specifically though. How far it will get you is negligible, as I said before.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:33 am

rando wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Not sure why you folks think highest grade in a class doesn't raise eyebrows in an interview, especially in some of the more difficult substantive courses. I got more than one comment/question during OCI about my A+s in Civ Pro and such; I'm sure that the A+s in secured transactions and bankruptcy will be helpful if I'm ever interviewing for, say, a bankruptcy court clerkship, or I'm trying to land a position in a bankruptcy practice.

In general, GPA is the most important things, but grades in specific classes do, in fact, matter. Particularly at very high levels of interviews (i.e. clerkships, V10s, "who are we giving an offer to" during the summer), everyone is going to have essentially the same resume lines. Other things will matter more--obviously, who gets an offer during a summer is mostly dependant on work quality over the summer--but all things equal, the person with a 3.8 in difficult classes is going to get the nod over the person with a 3.8 that is obviously gamed by easy classes.


Have not been through clerkship interviewing yet. But everyone has the same classes going into OCI, so there is no issue as to padding classes. People that have a shot at V10 firms are generally equally impressive and schools being equal, the guy walking in before you with a 3.8 had A+'s too. They just need something to talk about in an interview.
As far as a bankruptcy judge goes, I would imagine that you're right. They no doubt like to see you do well in course material that applies specifically to them. So little hiring is done that specifically though. How far it will get you is negligible, as I said before.


There's a difference between getting an A+ in Torts and an A+ in Civ Pro. Civ Pro is universally seen as one of the "hard" 1L classes--as well as one of the 1L classes that is actually applicable to practice. If you walk in to an interview claiming a strong interest in litigation, and can point to your performance in Civ Pro, it means something. This came up for me constantly in 1L and 2L classes.

Performance in Crim (and Crim Pro) obviously plays a roll in PI hiring if it involves crim work--more of a 1L hiring concern for most people, admittedly, but still.

If you're claiming an interest in corporate transactional work, a strong grade in Contracts is valuable.

Now, take a firm like K&E for example. They do two things amazingly well: Litigation and Bankruptcy. Again, a strong grade in Civ Pro is disproportionately valuable.

Also, don't forget 3L OCI. It does exist, though it isn't exactly fleshed out. However, pre-clerk hiring is more fleshed-out than OCI, as is post-clerk hiring if you're looking to upgrade firms (or you got no-offered for whatever reason that wasn't your own fault).

1L interviews and OCI are about leveraging everything at your disposal. As I said, overall performance is most important, but excellent grades in specific classes make for valuable talking points.

rando
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:57 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
There's a difference between getting an A+ in Torts and an A+ in Civ Pro. Civ Pro is universally seen as one of the "hard" 1L classes--as well as one of the 1L classes that is actually applicable to practice. If you walk in to an interview claiming a strong interest in litigation, and can point to your performance in Civ Pro, it means something. This came up for me constantly in 1L and 2L classes.

Performance in Crim (and Crim Pro) obviously plays a roll in PI hiring if it involves crim work--more of a 1L hiring concern for most people, admittedly, but still.

If you're claiming an interest in corporate transactional work, a strong grade in Contracts is valuable.

Now, take a firm like K&E for example. They do two things amazingly well: Litigation and Bankruptcy. Again, a strong grade in Civ Pro is disproportionately valuable.

Also, don't forget 3L OCI. It does exist, though it isn't exactly fleshed out. However, pre-clerk hiring is more fleshed-out than OCI, as is post-clerk hiring if you're looking to upgrade firms (or you got no-offered for whatever reason that wasn't your own fault).

1L interviews and OCI are about leveraging everything at your disposal. As I said, overall performance is most important, but excellent grades in specific classes make for valuable talking points.


We'll have to agree to disagree. CivPro just isn't very difficult. Contracts was far more difficult. Property as well. And Tax is in its own league. Further, I think you are vastly overestimating how much civpro actually matters. All those little jurisdictional questions really don't come up all that often. Several associates that I know laughed at me repeatedly when I was stressing out about civ pro and torts last year. They simply said I would probably never see that stuff again, ever.

3L OCI... Umm. Sort of exists. As far as a fleshed-out post-clerk hiring for summer no-offers. I honestly have no idea about this. But it isn't through OCI. If you're just talking about sending out resumes and you have an awesome GPA and work experience from a firm that just threw all its summers under a bus. Well yeah, I can picture that I guess.

You have a solid point with your law firm example. I know nothing about that firm but can imagine other examples, IP or litigation boutiques that would be concerned with specific areas. And like you mentioned bankruptcy judges. I would imagine that is where a bankruptcy grade would be crucial. But those are niche areas and really don't apply across the board. Its always fun to have a top award listed on your resume. Anecdotally, I was never asked about those grades. I could be the only one. dunno.

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TTT-LS
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby TTT-LS » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:26 pm

.
Last edited by TTT-LS on Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

k77
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby k77 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:40 pm

On a related note, how are secondary journals regarded on resumes in comparison to LR?

rando
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:44 pm

k77 wrote:On a related note, how are secondary journals regarded on resumes in comparison to LR?


Not as good. But still very worthwhile. Shoot for LR, take the best one you can get.

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Jordan77
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby Jordan77 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:01 pm

rando wrote:
Jordan77 wrote:A CALI award would probably not be very helpful if in legal writing and/or a substantive law class that teaches the area of law you are interviewing for.


Really?? You don't think have the HIGHEST grade in legal writing would open more doors to you? It is probably the most important grade you will have in law school. Don't give me this bullshit about it being NEGLIGIBLE. Now you are just being retarded. I will give you some wiggle room on the substantive area, but saying a top legal writing grade doesn't help is just stupid.

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steve_nash
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby steve_nash » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:05 am

.
Last edited by steve_nash on Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:06 am

Macempress's new 'tar. /thread

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mac.empress
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby mac.empress » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:06 am

mikeytwoshoes wrote:Macempress's new 'tar. /thread


:lol: 8)

rando
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Re: How good are any of the following on a resume?

Postby rando » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:12 am

steve_nash wrote:If you are interested in clerkships, you will use Civ Pro again, at least if you end up in district court (I have no experience at the appellate level). Half the motions I dealt with this summer were on FRCP issues. I'm gonna go with ToTransferOrNot and agree that CP is viewed as one of the "hard" 1L classes, and I'm speaking as someone who did get the highest grade in CP.

But back to topic about the highest grades point, from my brief stint interviewing during 2L OCI, employers never really commented on any particular grade.


yes. this is true. But that being said, you will likely use everything again.




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