Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:59 pm

Esc wrote:
smov_operator wrote:
Esc wrote:
thedogship wrote:I think it's fine to turn down a judge's offer if you are interviewing with multiple judges and you've made that known to the judge and his/her clerks at the time of interviewing. As long as you are up front, it won't come as a rude surprise to them if they give you an offer and you say "thanks, but no thanks. I've decided to go with a different judge."

However, if you accept an offer from a judge, you are not to then later try to get out of the acceptance. That judge has likely turned away a number of other candidates because he/she gave you that offer. A paid job is not a good reason. Yes, law students are fungible, but judges place great emphasis on honor, keeping one's word, and integrity. Immature and foolish move to back out on a judge whose offer you've already accepted.


This is not exactly correct. You aren't allowed to turn down a judge unless you've already accepted another position elsewhere. You take the first offer you are given, and you inform the later offers that you already accepted a position with another judge.


Actually, I think that's wrong. There's no moral obligation to automatically accept the first job you are offered. It would be perfectly okay to ask a judge for a little more time to weigh your options, although you may not get it. If you aren't sure you want the job, then DON'T ACCEPT. Ask for more time to decide or whatever. Barring a personal calamity, i.e. your parents died and you're the sole guardian of your younger siblings, an acceptance with of a clerkship is usually final. Just roll with it.


No. If a judge offers, you must accept, and immediately. The only way you can turn a judge down is if you have already accepted another position.

Interviewing with the judge after accepting another position is equally stupid. You don't fuck around with judges. Also, where's your scorn for that 0L pretending to give advice to law students?

0Ls DO NOT GIVE ADVICE HERE!

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smov_operator
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby smov_operator » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:05 pm

Esc wrote:Surrrrre. I can tell you'll go far with your handy-dandy little guidebook, and your flipping off judges and all.


Come on man, now you're just being ridiculous. Two educated people can have a disagreement without digressing into stupidity, regardless of who thinks they're right. Besides, anyone who takes something from an anonymous forum without a heavy grain of salt is an idiot anyway.

Now, we can stop with this silly back-and-forth if you'd like.

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steve_nash
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby steve_nash » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:48 pm

smov_operator wrote:
Esc wrote:
smov_operator wrote:I agree that having to turn down a judge is not an ideal situation to be in. But, while awkward, certainly it's more acceptable than reneging on an offer. That's why they say apply only where you are willing to go.


Exposing your genitals in the classroom is certainly more acceptable than first exposing your genitals and then jerking off, but both courses of action will get you arrested. :|

You don't turn a judge's offer down unless you have previously accepted another offer. End of story.


In Law School Confidential, 366-367, author Robert Miller details the appropriate way to go about delaying or declining a judge's offer. It can be done. You just have to understand how to do it.

Feel free to educate yourself. End of story.


seriously? Just say no.

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thedogship
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby thedogship » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:18 pm

Esc wrote:
thedogship wrote:I think it's fine to turn down a judge's offer if you are interviewing with multiple judges and you've made that known to the judge and his/her clerks at the time of interviewing. As long as you are up front, it won't come as a rude surprise to them if they give you an offer and you say "thanks, but no thanks. I've decided to go with a different judge."

However, if you accept an offer from a judge, you are not to then later try to get out of the acceptance. That judge has likely turned away a number of other candidates because he/she gave you that offer. A paid job is not a good reason. Yes, law students are fungible, but judges place great emphasis on honor, keeping one's word, and integrity. Immature and foolish move to back out on a judge whose offer you've already accepted.


This is not exactly correct. You aren't allowed to turn down a judge unless you've already accepted another position elsewhere. You take the first offer you are given, and you inform the later offers that you already accepted a position with another judge.


Esc, you don't know what you are talking about. Cut it out.

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wiseowl
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby wiseowl » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:30 pm

thedogship wrote:Esc, you don't know what you are talking about. Cut it out.


what Esc said is closer to what we were told than what you are saying.

i had interviewed with 2 judges. neither offered on the spot. out of the blue a third judge called a few days later and offered on the spot. I was required to take that offer and remove myself from consideration with the others - however, i asked for and was granted 24 hours and was told by CSO that it would be acceptable to consider equally any offers received during that 24 hours.

no others came, so i accepted that one. game over. some of my judges were magistrates, some were district. they should be treated with the same deference.

i received an interview request almost a month later from a CoA judge. had to turn them down. it hurt, but your word is your bond friends.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:32 pm

Esc wrote:Maybe so, but I'm beginning to suspect that 0Ls who post authoritative statements in the Forum for Law School Students are simply beyond help.

Esc wrote:
TTT-LS wrote:You guys who are saying that reading E&E's is "fun" are completely deranged. I get that you're excited about law school -- that's completely normal. Your response to that excitement, however, is anything but.

About a year from now, you will be absolutely kicking yourselves for wasting perfectly good free time on such a pointless exercise. But in the meantime, by all means continue to document your selfpwnage here on TLS, as it makes for pretty solid entertainment to those of us who know better.


The E&Es are enjoyable to read, explain basic concepts (such as personal jurisdiction) that I previously knew nothing about, and shed light on some of the legal contortions in the high profile court cases covered in the NYTimes, Washington Post, etc. I'm not saying that I expect to make Law Review because I'm reading the E&Es, but this reading is not a waste of time.

Don't be such a douche!

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64838&start=125
:shock:

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thedogship
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby thedogship » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:28 pm

wiseowl wrote:
thedogship wrote:Esc, you don't know what you are talking about. Cut it out.


what Esc said is closer to what we were told than what you are saying.

i had interviewed with 2 judges. neither offered on the spot. out of the blue a third judge called a few days later and offered on the spot. I was required to take that offer and remove myself from consideration with the others - however, i asked for and was granted 24 hours and was told by CSO that it would be acceptable to consider equally any offers received during that 24 hours.

no others came, so i accepted that one. game over. some of my judges were magistrates, some were district. they should be treated with the same deference.

i received an interview request almost a month later from a CoA judge. had to turn them down. it hurt, but your word is your bond friends.


I'm not talking about the individual rules of your school or your particular CSO. You are bound by those, others are not. I'm talking about the situation in which you receive 2 or 3 offers within a 24 hour period. It is not unreasonable to tell a judge's clerk that you would like 24 hours to get back to them with an answer. You should have told them in your interview that you were interviewing with other judges so that they were made aware. I did this both with my district court internship and my COA internship. I received multiple offers in both instances and obviously could not accept them all. In both cases, I chose the judge that I felt I liked the most, whose clerks I liked the most, and would give me the best bang for my buck going forward. As long as you are gracious, professional, and make all parties as aware of the situation as possible, then it is fine. This situation is completely different from one in which you accept a judge's offer, and then a week later get another offer from another judge. In that case, you are bound by the acceptance you gave to the first judge and it would be totally improper to dump the first judge and take the subsequent offer from the other judge.




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