Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

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CTNY1L
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Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby CTNY1L » Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:26 am

Is this completely verboten? I just got an offer from a very prestigious SA program at a well known financial institution, and they want to pay me, too. Problem is, I accepted a district ct internship with a magistrate judge last month, when I had no other offers on the table.

Just wondering. I know presumption is against turning down a judge, so chances are reneging is worse, but is there a prestige tradeoff that justifies it ever?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:54 am

...with a magistrate judge?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:21 am

My first impression is that you are going to make a wonderful husband/wife for someone...until somebody better comes along. Beyond my initial impression, I hope that you plan on practicing in another district.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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kW 2 Kg
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby kW 2 Kg » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:23 am

Everyone's where they want to be...

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JPeavy44
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby JPeavy44 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:29 am

CanadianWolf wrote:My first impression is that you are going to make a wonderful husband/wife for someone...until somebody better comes along. Beyond my initial impression, I hope that you plan on practicing in another district.


lol

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pany1985
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby pany1985 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:51 am

If you don't work for a judge now, you might never do it. I'd just say to take the financial hit and stick with the district court. There's always next summer (not to mention the rest of your life) for making money.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:40 am

LOL

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kurla88
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby kurla88 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:46 am

Have you tried arranging a split summer?

Esc
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby Esc » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:53 am

kurla88 wrote:Have you tried arranging a split summer?


This. Call the judge's assistant or whoever you have been contacting and explain you have the other offer, and see if a split summer is possible. If not, then you turn down the financial institution's offer and work for the judge anyway.

YOU DO NOT TURN DOWN A JUDGE'S OFFER, AND YOU DO NOT EVER, EVER RENEGE ON A JUDGE'S OFFER.

If you do, your name and reputation are dirt. End of story.

CTNY1L
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby CTNY1L » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:57 pm

vanwinkle wrote:...with a magistrate judge?


Why? Does that make a difference?

And I haven't decided anything, just trying to get a feel for what would be best for my career.

Esc
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby Esc » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:04 pm

CTNY1L wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:...with a magistrate judge?


Why? Does that make a difference?

And I haven't decided anything, just trying to get a feel for what would be best for my career.


I think van was referring to the fact that if you are working for magistrate judge it isn't technically a "Federal District Judicial Internship," since magistrates aren't actually Article III trial judges. It doesn't mean that working for one isn't good experience, though.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:54 pm

Esc wrote:
CTNY1L wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:...with a magistrate judge?

Why? Does that make a difference?

And I haven't decided anything, just trying to get a feel for what would be best for my career.

I think van was referring to the fact that if you are working for magistrate judge it isn't technically a "Federal District Judicial Internship," since magistrates aren't actually Article III trial judges. It doesn't mean that working for one isn't good experience, though.

This is essentially what I was getting at. A magistrate judge is not the same thing as a trial judge at all. I don't know if that means the rules for them are different when it comes to declining them, but it certainly means they're not regarded the same as trial judges on your resume.

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Cosmo Kramer
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:56 pm

are you reneging out of the deal? are you reneging? that's a renege!

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RVP11
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:20 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Esc wrote:
CTNY1L wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:...with a magistrate judge?

Why? Does that make a difference?

And I haven't decided anything, just trying to get a feel for what would be best for my career.

I think van was referring to the fact that if you are working for magistrate judge it isn't technically a "Federal District Judicial Internship," since magistrates aren't actually Article III trial judges. It doesn't mean that working for one isn't good experience, though.

This is essentially what I was getting at. A magistrate judge is not the same thing as a trial judge at all. I don't know if that means the rules for them are different when it comes to declining them, but it certainly means they're not regarded the same as trial judges on your resume.


Huh? These are 1L judicial internships we're talking about. I doubt the fact that the judge is a magistrate will matter one iota. And the issue here is reneging. The possible negative repercussions of reneging on a federal judge are not dependent on whether the judge is an Article III judge. It's equally wrong to renege on anyone, and any kind of judge can ruin your reputation in that community if they wish to do so.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:28 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:Huh? These are 1L judicial internships we're talking about. I doubt the fact that the judge is a magistrate will matter one iota. And the issue here is reneging. The possible negative repercussions of reneging on a federal judge are not dependent on whether the judge is an Article III judge. It's equally wrong to renege on anyone, and any kind of judge can ruin your reputation in that community if they wish to do so.

I don't think this is true, especially the "it's equally wrong to renege on anyone" part. There's something special about the deal with judges, you're not even supposed to turn them down if they offer you a job, so I don't see them as being treated equally.

But then the question is whether magistrate judges require the same amount of deference? I agree that backing out is bad, but I don't think it's the "OMG your career is ruined" thing if you do it elsewhere and do it tactfully enough. You can ask to be let out without destroying your entire reputation in a lot of places and I've heard of people managing to do this successfully.

Esc
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby Esc » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:35 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:Huh? These are 1L judicial internships we're talking about. I doubt the fact that the judge is a magistrate will matter one iota. And the issue here is reneging. The possible negative repercussions of reneging on a federal judge are not dependent on whether the judge is an Article III judge. It's equally wrong to renege on anyone, and any kind of judge can ruin your reputation in that community if they wish to do so.

I don't think this is true, especially the "it's equally wrong to renege on anyone" part. There's something special about the deal with judges, you're not even supposed to turn them down if they offer you a job, so I don't see them as being treated equally.

But then the question is whether magistrate judges require the same amount of deference? I agree that backing out is bad, but I don't think it's the "OMG your career is ruined" thing if you do it elsewhere and do it tactfully enough. You can ask to be let out without destroying your entire reputation in a lot of places and I've heard of people managing to do this successfully.


Magistrate judges aren't Article III judges, nor are they trial judges, but they are still important and well-respected. Maybe some wouldn't take offense, but the general rule applies. You don't renege on them.

legends159
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby legends159 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:37 pm

why has this issue popped up so frequently this year. Is class of 2012 really so clueless? Has ITE really made people forget all their morals and values? Or have hiring trends shifted so that paying jobs (or more prestigious jobs) came later in the year, after people scrambled, panicked and "settled" for the first thing that came along?

CTNY1L
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby CTNY1L » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:39 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:My first impression is that you are going to make a wonderful husband/wife for someone...until somebody better comes along. Beyond my initial impression, I hope that you plan on practicing in another district.


Accepting an offer and reneging is much more analogous to breaking an engagement before the wedding than dumping a spouse. jussayin'.

If Heidi Klum came along a week after I'd gotten engaged, would it be wrong to evaluate my options?

Esc
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby Esc » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:40 pm

legends159 wrote:why has this issue popped up so frequently this year. Is class of 2012 really so clueless? Has ITE really made people forget all their morals and values? Or have hiring trends shifted so that paying jobs (or more prestigious jobs) came later in the year, after people scrambled, panicked and "settled" for the first thing that came along?


I think this is TCR.

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dood
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby dood » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:42 pm

...
Last edited by dood on Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

270910
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby 270910 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:48 pm

legends159 wrote:why has this issue popped up so frequently this year. Is class of 2012 really so clueless? Has ITE really made people forget all their morals and values? Or have hiring trends shifted so that paying jobs (or more prestigious jobs) came later in the year, after people scrambled, panicked and "settled" for the first thing that came along?


More law students, more obvious forums to ask about it, more discussion of the process.

It wouldn't be like this if the 1L job search weren't such a shit show.

Danteshek
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby Danteshek » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:58 pm

I'm working for a Magistrate Judge in the fall (CDCA). While MJs don't do many trials, they do some when they have the consent of the parties. Magistrate judges also work for the District Court and report directly to District Court Judges, even though they aren't technically District Court Judges. That said, MJs do mostly discovery and settlements, which means that they tend to be extremely well connected to the legal community. Some MJs are significantly more respected than your average District Court Judge. In our district, the workload for MJs is heavy on Social Security and Section 1983, with a little bit of everything else.

It is extremely bad form to turn down an offer from any federal judge, and you shouldn't do it. I would not even ask for a split summer.

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RVP11
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:20 pm

This thread is why you ask the judge during the interview about possibly splitting or ditching if a paying offer comes up.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:36 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:This thread is why you ask the judge during the interview about possibly splitting or ditching if a paying offer comes up.


LOL

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RVP11
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Re: Reneging on Federal District Judicial Internship?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:03 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:This thread is why you ask the judge during the interview about possibly splitting or ditching if a paying offer comes up.


LOL


I should have clarified that this is something you bring up after you've received the offer during the interview.




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