FBI Special Agent Forum

[Sauer Grapes]

I have really been thinking about going this route also, specifically DEA. I'm not sure that I want to be a lawyer (the idea of sitting and thoroughly reviewing/reading pages upon pages of text is not exactly appealing to me.)

I have a senior connection within DEA, and he thinks I could get the job without law school. Thoughts? I may end up going to law school anyway, as I feel it might help in the future, but I don't know about taking out piles of loans for something I'm not completely sold on.

A law degree will not help you (much) when it comes to competitive promotions. It'll be more who you know, the work you've done, and stuff like that. If you can get the job without the law degree, and that is what you know you want to do, then why go to law school?

Valid point. I guess I am just of the mind that if I am going to get an advanced degree, I would much rather do it when I am young. I am not really sure what I want to do right now, and there are certainly appealing things about law. I DO know that I am currently doing management consulting / contracting for the federal government, and it is not something that I enjoy. I've been accepted to some awesome schools (t6) so I'm trying to decide whether it's worth it to take the plunge.

Well, I said it wouldn't help much, but it definitely won't hurt to have the degree. Also, if you have a T6 degree, plus experience as a federal agent (1811), you will have A LOT of options assuming you aren't a complete troll.

One thing to consider though, is that 1811's can often get advanced degrees on the government's dime. Especially once they enter management. Also, you WILL make too much to qualify for LRAP, but you will have other options for repayment, possibly IBR. You WILL make 6 figures by your 5th year, probably sooner (given the 25% LEAP that 1811's get for working on average 50 hours a week). Of course, you won't ever get overtime.

[gobucks101]

According to their website, the application process takes anywhere from 6 months to several years. Looking at the application, it asks "Do you have a J.D. from an accredited law school?" So does this mean that if FBI is what you really want, you can't apply during fall of 3L year so that you could start right out of law school? You would have to either be jobless at graduation or get a job with the hopes of quitting if your application is accepted?

[ArkansasFan]

aren't you disqualified if you are colorblind? That would eliminate me right away.

Yep.

[mikeytwoshoes]

http://www.fbijobs.gov/111.asp
http://www.fbijobs.gov/1111.asp

Law
To qualify under the Law Entry Program, candidates must have a JD degree from an accredited law school.

Has anyone looked into this? anyone want to share their thoughts/opinions?

'tar=highly offensive.

[PoliticalJunkie]

I worked with the FBI alot in recruitment and they generally never hire fresh law grads - in fact it's VERY rare unless you have specific language/cultural abilities. Best bet is to get some firm/govt experience (DOJ, SEC, Commerce, etc) and lateral over.

I have to admit though, out of all the people I've met, Congressional staff, business, firms, other govt jobs, the folks at the FBI tend to really love their jobs despite the pay cut they experience......says something about the culture there. I haven't met an FBI agent or analyst that didn't love their move from a firm to the FBI.

[pu_golf88]

There was a different government agency at my undergrad in the fall. They said in their info session that if you've downloaded media illegally in the past year you would be disqualified.

[mikeytwoshoes]

It's always illuminating when 0Ls bring in outside information that is (1) irrelevant; and (2) obvious.

Thank you, O bringer of information. Who would have anticipated that the FBI wouldn't hire us if we committed crimes (as if your source established that - I'm being generous based on context here)?

[JOThompson]

It's always illuminating when 0Ls bring in outside information that is (1) irrelevant; and (2) obvious.

Thank you, O bringer of information. Who would have anticipated that the FBI wouldn't hire us if we committed crimes (as if your source established that - I'm being generous based on context here)?

Your post betrays ignorance in this case. The FBI is willing to make exceptions for certain minor crimes or moral errors. I don't know if illegal downloads fall into that category, but I know that larger mistakes do (limited prior illegal drug use, if enough time has passed). The Bureau definitely recognizes that a number of otherwise strong and desirable applicants have had minor lapses of judgment. My source? I worked closely with several agents in the Honors Internship screening process, which is akin to the special agent selection process.

[mikeytwoshoes]

It's always illuminating when 0Ls bring in outside information that is (1) irrelevant; and (2) obvious.

Thank you, O bringer of information. Who would have anticipated that the FBI wouldn't hire us if we committed crimes (as if your source established that - I'm being generous based on context here)?

Your post betrays ignorance in this case. The FBI is willing to make exceptions for certain minor crimes or moral errors. I don't know if illegal downloads fall into that category, but I know that larger mistakes do (limited prior illegal drug use, if enough time has passed). The Bureau definitely recognizes that a number of otherwise strong and desirable applicants have had minor lapses of judgment. My source? I worked closely with several agents in the Honors Internship screening process, which is akin to the special agent selection process.

My point still stands; while there are exceptions, on average the FBI doesn't hire criminals. This is especially true when an applicant has committed a crime recently.

[engineer]

This actually sounds pretty cool. I'll look into it because, hey, what the hell. How competitive is the process, and does it help if you'd qualify in three categories? (Comp Sci/IT, Law, and Language... I'll see if I can pick up a CPA and somehow become 'diversified' in the next three years to become a penta-qualified applicant )

[arhmcpo]

Had an alumni come by in the fall whose in the FBI. He wanted to be a DA then realized before grad that he really wanted FBI even though he had zero fighting/shooting experience, but was a half-way decent athlete. He applied after graduation, got a job at a small firm dealing with construction accidents. The physical test is extremely difficult to get in. Doesn't sound difficult on paper but its one of those routines where your heart rate jumps like crazy. I think he said average wait to get accepted if you were lucky enough was about 9 months. Described training in depth, he said he loved it even though there was a lot of hazing type of beat-downs (the bull-ring anyone?). I think he said you rank every office in order of preference and they are pretty good about getting you one of your top choices (preference goes by class rank). He got assigned SD - organized crime and loves it. I forget where he started pay wise but after 5 years you are over $100k since you get steadily promoted pay grades when you first join. Benefits awesome and easy to ecru vacation time.

He wasn't a recruiter or anything, but he was seriously gushing about his job with genuine enthusiasm

[d34d9823]

My point still stands; while there are exceptions, on average the FBI doesn't hire criminals. This is especially true when an applicant has committed a crime recently.

Characterizing file sharers as "criminals" is also incorrect. Copyright infringement carries only civil liability in most cases. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_ ... t#Remedies.

[mikeytwoshoes]

My point still stands; while there are exceptions, on average the FBI doesn't hire criminals. This is especially true when an applicant has committed a crime recently.

Characterizing file sharers as "criminals" is also incorrect. Copyright infringement carries only civil liability in most cases. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_ ... t#Remedies.

The poster I was responding to characterized the activity as illegally downloading, not file sharing. Even if it is only a civil legal issue, it is neither illuminating nor surprisi9ng that the FBI won't hire file sharers (as described by the 0L).

[engineer]

My point still stands; while there are exceptions, on average the FBI doesn't hire criminals. This is especially true when an applicant has committed a crime recently.

Characterizing file sharers as "criminals" is also incorrect. Copyright infringement carries only civil liability in most cases. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_ ... t#Remedies.

The poster I was responding to characterized the activity as illegally downloading, not file sharing. Even if it is only a civil legal issue, it is neither illuminating nor surprisi9ng that the FBI won't hire file sharers (as described by the 0L).

But there's actually nothing illegal about *downloading* files--you're not violating any laws! It's only illegal to *redistribute* those files...that's why people are getting fucked over in court. It's not the fact that they downloaded a file that's annoying the record labels, it's the fact that they're facilitating copyright infringement by simultaneously UPLOADING those files to other people.

That said, and like the mega-leech I am, I don't foresee running into any problems. I use IRC exclusively for filesharing; none of this torrent bullshit. I never infringe copyrights, I just download.

[cardnal124]

The physical test is extremely difficult to get in. Doesn't sound difficult on paper but its one of those routines where your heart rate jumps like crazy.

Sit-ups, a sprint, push-ups, and a 1.5 mile run? Really, unless there's something I don't see, that's not much, especially if you workout in that order a few times to get used to the routine.

http://www.fbijobs.gov/11131.asp

[engineer]

The physical test is extremely difficult to get in. Doesn't sound difficult on paper but its one of those routines where your heart rate jumps like crazy.

Sit-ups, a sprint, push-ups, and a 1.5 mile run? Really, unless there's something I don't see, that's not much, especially if you workout in that order a few times to get used to the routine.

http://www.fbijobs.gov/11131.asp

but it's a whole MINUTE of sit-ups!!! and the push-ups... it's AS MANY AS YOU CAN DO!

[kalvano]

The physical test is extremely difficult to get in. Doesn't sound difficult on paper but its one of those routines where your heart rate jumps like crazy.

Sit-ups, a sprint, push-ups, and a 1.5 mile run? Really, unless there's something I don't see, that's not much, especially if you workout in that order a few times to get used to the routine.

http://www.fbijobs.gov/11131.asp

I had a buddy that applied (rejected, small heart problem) and he said that it sounds easy, but is much harder than it sounds. I forgot exactly what it was, but they are exceptionally stringent.

[jms1987]

How much does school prestige matter? Or is it more about class ranking/grades/law review?

[ScaredWorkedBored]

Something to keep in mind on those physical charts is that since this is competitive merit scoring, the "actual" scores one needs to be selected are going to be a good deal higher than the minimums. It's pretty easy to get to the 12 points if you have one extremely strong area. Actually physically fit people are going to rack well over 20 if not 30.

[JOThompson]

Prestige isn't a huge factor, at least not anecdotally. I and two other students from my TTT undergrad were selected.

[kalvano]

Prestige isn't a huge factor, at least not anecdotally. I and two other students from my TTT undergrad were selected.

It doesn't at all. They just prefer a JD, and recognize that most law schools are fairly equal in terms of teaching.

[ViIIager]

Something to keep in mind on those physical charts is that since this is competitive merit scoring, the "actual" scores one needs to be selected are going to be a good deal higher than the minimums. It's pretty easy to get to the 12 points if you have one extremely strong area. Actually physically fit people are going to rack well over 20 if not 30.

I'm not sure if FBI has changed their policy, but at least one of the SA-centric agencies has stopped using the PT scores as a differentiator between applicants (though there used to be an unofficial 20 point cutoff). That said, the PT isn't that difficult. I started prepping by doing an event a day and gradually adding to the workout over the six months I had to wait while I progressed through the other steps in the process, and I scored far more than double the minimum. There are plenty of websites, training programs, and custom-tailored techniques to get ready for SA PT testing. The only worry I had during the PT test was that out of the four of us testing, one (active military) guy failed the situps, which is rumored to be the major chokepoint because many people ignore it during training in favor of running.

I can't speak for the academy training, but I was told to get used to running three miles a day plus other physical training prior to entrance. Instructors there are damn tough on participants, and just scoring the minimum is no longer acceptable. Academy training is waaaay the hell off for people just starting the application process though.

Seriously, if you're just applying, sweat the paperwork. It's tougher than any step of the process so long as a bit of preparation is done.

[jms1987]

Prestige isn't a huge factor, at least not anecdotally. I and two other students from my TTT undergrad were selected.

It doesn't at all. They just prefer a JD, and recognize that most law schools are fairly equal in terms of teaching.

How about class rank?

[engineer]

Do grades matter? I got bitten by the curve, but I swear I'm smart.

/s


But seriously, how much to they take grades into account? Mine aren't as high as they could be; I did my best, but others out-worked me.

[JOThompson]

Grades are very important, but a lowish GPA isn't the deathknell of your application. Anecdotal, but the agent who interviewed me said he made it in with ~3.0.