JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

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Rambiggler
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby Rambiggler » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:04 am

soundgardener wrote:
Rambiggler wrote:you may disagree with me, but med school is easy. i am thoroughly convinced of this, and willing to make life changes based on it. it's not a breeze, but it's not that hard. it's certainly less work than busting your ass as a new associate in a big firm and trying to get to the top... and all of us on this forum are ready to do that anyway.

-study hard for two years (or don't and you're still fine because GPA doesn't matter and med schools won't fail you out and you are guaranteed to at least get some 'undesirable' job like family medicine/psychiatry where you can work 30 hours a week and still make good money)
-then do rotations for two years which are not hard (the only hard part is a hard schedule, like lawyers have as well, and some studying for step1-3)
-then a couple years of residency (only challenge there is working long hours like, um, biglaw maybe) and then you are literally set for the rest of your life with no stress if you want it that way. My $.02


I think you need to remove your rose tinted glasses. I have a ton a friends at various stages on the path to becoming a doctor (med school, residency, etc.), have witnessed their experience firsthand, and this is certainly not how I or they would characterize it.

One thing you have that is flat out wrong is that med schools will not fail you out. They absolutely will fail you out. I know people this has happened to. If you do not bust your ass in med school, you will fail out. However, you then have the option of either giving up, or finishing in the Caribbean for a shitload of money and hoping you can hustle your way into some sort of residency.

Also, I don't know any doctors of any kind that have anything resembling no stress or work only thirty hours a week. That is fucking laughable. The best gig from what I can tell is dermatology which has the least hours for the most money, but it is the hardest to get (what a shocker). You have to be in the top handful of people in your class to land a Derm residency.

As far as sources of stress your ignoring off the top of my head, you have malpractice insurance, malpractice suits, being on call, hospital politics, and insurance companies telling you how to treat patients. This is all after you've actually become a practicing doctor which is much more difficult than how you've portrayed it.

The bottom line is that both medicine and law are demanding professions. They are well compensated for a reason. I think in the end one has to choose the work that is suited to them personally and accept all that entails. I don't think that a path exists where you can just skate through and rake in tons of money with no stress while having a beautiful and positive impact on the world. That is a pipe dream.


very thoughtful... props.

i don't disagree with you on most of what you posted. i realize that it is no cake walk. i realize that life is no cake walk. i oversimplified my explanation for a forum post, but I have genuinely looked into this and have reached the opposite conclusion.

the way i see it, we are all going to be working hard no matter what we do. in this world, anyone who wants to be successful (whatever that means to them personally) will have to work hard, whether it's working hard to make more money or working hard to be allowed to take time off for your family.

the only tints i have on my glasses are those of a person who would genuinely like to be a physician... this desire does shape my portrayal of things.

the only point i was trying to make with my posts above was the fact that as a young associate you will work very hard for a couple years in order to be in a better position later (senior associate/partner). for me it seems more desirable/beneficial to spend those same years working hard in med school. TO ME. I never claimed that this is the right conclusion for everyone... just saying this is the conclusion i came to based on some serious thought and investigation.

my point in starting this thread was not to convince people that med school is easy... i am only trying to learn from other people's experiences if they have any, regarding what a person might do with a JD/MD.

i will be perfectly happy practicing either profession exclusively, whatever i decide to do, but i want to cover all my bases and try to figure out if there is some value added by combining the two degrees.

thank you all for your input.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:02 am

soundgardener wrote: I don't think that a path exists where you can just skate through and rake in tons of money with no stress while having a beautiful and positive impact on the world. That is a pipe dream.


Yeah there is. It's called becoming a pharmacist. At Walgreen in Chicago they start at $108K /year, and $120K /year for pharmacy supervisor (heavy emphasis on "starting"). They never work a minute over 40 hours, and if they do, then they get time and a half. Sure it's not the pay of a surgeon, but it sure beats the hell out of biglaw (in terms of hours worked and compensation).

OP, if you want to do something easy that pays a lot, why don't you just drop the whole JD thing and get a PharmD?

EDIT- Not saying pharmacy school is easy, but being a pharmacist is.

270910
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby 270910 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:29 am

A very real use of MD/JD is doing expert testimony for med mal cases... but that's a hard specialty to know you want in advance of 7+ years of schooling.

I think your best bet is to pick one to do first. It's entirely possible that after doing one for a while you'll find a practical use for the second degree, or (if you do med school first) just have $$$ to blow on a degree for the hell of it. But doing both at once or back to back without an extremely particular goal is probably going to be a waste.

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soundgardener
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby soundgardener » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:38 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
soundgardener wrote: I don't think that a path exists where you can just skate through and rake in tons of money with no stress while having a beautiful and positive impact on the world. That is a pipe dream.


Yeah there is. It's called becoming a pharmacist. At Walgreen in Chicago they start at $108K /year, and $120K /year for pharmacy supervisor (heavy emphasis on "starting"). They never work a minute over 40 hours, and if they do, then they get time and a half. Sure it's not the pay of a surgeon, but it sure beats the hell out of biglaw (in terms of hours worked and compensation).

OP, if you want to do something easy that pays a lot, why don't you just drop the whole JD thing and get a PharmD?

EDIT- Not saying pharmacy school is easy, but being a pharmacist is.


I don't really understand what it is that pharmacists outside of compounding pharmacies actually do. Aren't they just distributing ready to go pills given to them by pharmaceutical companies? It seems like the whole enterprise could be replaced by an automated kiosk where you insert a prescription and out comes a bottle of pills.

Personally, I would cut my own throat with my plastic nametag if handing out pills in walgreens was the full extent of my career.

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Mattalones
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby Mattalones » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:43 pm

I was at a tailgate when my friend cut hit finger off and, when we went to the nearby hospital, this lady came in on call. She was a JD/MD and she was featured on all sorts of national news channels, in addition to very frequently doing expert testimony. She had a specialty in both neurology and hand (don't remember what a hand doctor is call). She was a baller. I think that having both degrees is a way to make a big name for yourself if you are willing to equate your life with career goals. If you aren't, then one will suffer. What I would do is shoot out e-mails to people who have both degrees and talk with them. That is the best way to find out.

... Look up joint degree people from the schools you are interested in. E-mail them, get it workin'

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Mattalones
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby Mattalones » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:46 pm

soundgardener wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
soundgardener wrote: I don't think that a path exists where you can just skate through and rake in tons of money with no stress while having a beautiful and positive impact on the world. That is a pipe dream.


Yeah there is. It's called becoming a pharmacist. At Walgreen in Chicago they start at $108K /year, and $120K /year for pharmacy supervisor (heavy emphasis on "starting"). They never work a minute over 40 hours, and if they do, then they get time and a half. Sure it's not the pay of a surgeon, but it sure beats the hell out of biglaw (in terms of hours worked and compensation).

OP, if you want to do something easy that pays a lot, why don't you just drop the whole JD thing and get a PharmD?

EDIT- Not saying pharmacy school is easy, but being a pharmacist is.


I don't really understand what it is that pharmacists outside of compounding pharmacies actually do. Aren't they just distributing ready to go pills given to them by pharmaceutical companies? It seems like the whole enterprise could be replaced by an automated kiosk where you insert a prescription and out comes a bottle of pills.

Personally, I would cut my own throat with my plastic nametag if handing out pills in walgreens was the full extent of my career.

They are there to make sure that you don't die. Doctors don't know drugs nearly as well as pharmacists, who catch potentially fatal drug mixes quite frequently (that is just one thing they do). Basically, the doctor is the one who knows the body, and the pharmacist is the one who knows the drugs. It is simply a division of labor.
Last edited by Mattalones on Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LjakW
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby LjakW » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:42 pm

dreman510 wrote:Super Medical Malpractice?
Associate at Wachtell?
Edit: Dont know why the link isnt working, but there is an associate at WLRK with an MD
Patent Law?

http://www.wlrk.com/Page.cfm/Thread/Attorneys/SubThread/Search/Name/Hoschander%2C%20Jeffrey%20D.

dreman510
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby dreman510 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:09 pm

LjakW wrote:
dreman510 wrote:Super Medical Malpractice?
Associate at Wachtell?
Edit: Dont know why the link isnt working, but there is an associate at WLRK with an MD
Patent Law?

http://www.wlrk.com/Page.cfm/Thread/Attorneys/SubThread/Search/Name/Hoschander%2C%20Jeffrey%20D.

Thanks-that was it

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:55 pm

Mattalones wrote:
soundgardener wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
soundgardener wrote: I don't think that a path exists where you can just skate through and rake in tons of money with no stress while having a beautiful and positive impact on the world. That is a pipe dream.


Yeah there is. It's called becoming a pharmacist. At Walgreen in Chicago they start at $108K /year, and $120K /year for pharmacy supervisor (heavy emphasis on "starting"). They never work a minute over 40 hours, and if they do, then they get time and a half. Sure it's not the pay of a surgeon, but it sure beats the hell out of biglaw (in terms of hours worked and compensation).

OP, if you want to do something easy that pays a lot, why don't you just drop the whole JD thing and get a PharmD?

EDIT- Not saying pharmacy school is easy, but being a pharmacist is.


I don't really understand what it is that pharmacists outside of compounding pharmacies actually do. Aren't they just distributing ready to go pills given to them by pharmaceutical companies? It seems like the whole enterprise could be replaced by an automated kiosk where you insert a prescription and out comes a bottle of pills.

Personally, I would cut my own throat with my plastic nametag if handing out pills in walgreens was the full extent of my career.

They are there to make sure that you don't die. Doctors don't know drugs nearly as well as pharmacists, who catch potentially fatal drug mixes quite frequently (that is just one thing they do). Basically, the doctor is the one who knows the body, and the pharmacist is the one who knows the drugs. It is simply a division of labor.


More like they are there to check the computer, which tells them whether there is a potentially hazardous drug interaction. Pharmacists really don't do jack. 95% of their job is to sit there and look at the pills that the pharm tech filled and compare them to the one on the picture in the screen to make sure that the pharm tech didn't fuck up.

But soundgardener, you're right, it is pretty mindnumbing and ridiculous work (particularly considering the level of education is takes to become a pharmacist). However, they will never be replaced by automation because state laws require them to be present when medicine is being distributed (although a lot of the pharm techs might disappear). Additionally, there has to be someone present there to answer customer questions (even though probably only 1 out of 100 customers has a question and it's almost always something that they could have answered by themselves by simply reading the pamphlet attached to the prescription).

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Mattalones
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby Mattalones » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:11 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:More like they are there to check the computer, which tells them whether there is a potentially hazardous drug interaction. Pharmacists really don't do jack. 95% of their job is to sit there and look at the pills that the pharm tech filled and compare them to the one on the picture in the screen to make sure that the pharm tech didn't fuck up.

But soundgardener, you're right, it is pretty mindnumbing and ridiculous work (particularly considering the level of education is takes to become a pharmacist). However, they will never be replaced by automation because state laws require them to be present when medicine is being distributed (although a lot of the pharm techs might disappear). Additionally, there has to be someone present there to answer customer questions (even though probably only 1 out of 100 customers has a question and it's almost always something that they could have answered by themselves by simply reading the pamphlet attached to the prescription).

My aunt, a pharmacist, completely agrees with what you say about retail pharmacy. But, that is generally considered the worst kind. There are a lot of things you can do with a Pharm. D. That is like saying,

"being a lawyers is mind-numbingly ridiculous when you take into consideration how much education it takes to become one. All that they do is proofread forms all day, and it doesn't take 20 years of schooling to be able to do that."

Yeah, that is true for many lawyers, but that is generally the worst thing you can do with a law degree, and there are so many other things a law degree can get you (I don't want this to turn into a T14 v TTTT debate about job prospects ... I think you should be able to get my point, though).

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englawyer
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby englawyer » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:22 pm

all jobs are mind-numbing; that is the nature of capitalism. companies and organizations don't want "special flowers" that can't easily be replaced or else they would have to pay more. thus they divide work into segments that could easily be done by the next joe schmoe with the credentials willing to sign up for the gig. true for law, engineering, accounting, or pretty much any other field

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Mattalones
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby Mattalones » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:26 pm

Adam Smith wrote:All jobs are mind-numbing; that is the nature of capitalism. Companies and organizations don't want "special flowers" that can't easily be replaced or else they would have to pay more. Thus, they divide work into segments that could easily be done by the next joe schmoe with the credentials willing to sign up for the gig; true for law, engineering, accounting, or pretty much any other field
-The Wealth of Nations

:lol:

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GATORTIM
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby GATORTIM » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:26 am

Mattalones wrote:I was at a tailgate when my friend cut hit finger off and, when we went to the nearby hospital, this lady came in on call. She was a JD/MD and she was featured on all sorts of national news channels, in addition to very frequently doing expert testimony. She had a specialty in both neurology and hand (don't remember what a hand doctor is call). She was a baller.


Was she hott?

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Mattalones
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby Mattalones » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:55 pm

GATORTIM wrote:
Mattalones wrote:I was at a tailgate when my friend cut hit finger off and, when we went to the nearby hospital, this lady came in on call. She was a JD/MD and she was featured on all sorts of national news channels, in addition to very frequently doing expert testimony. She had a specialty in both neurology and hand (don't remember what a hand doctor is call). She was a baller.


Was she hott?

No ... Maybe she was before the degrees :lol:

JR1187
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby JR1187 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:55 pm

How about IP lawyer that specializes in biotech?

MD/JD2B
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby MD/JD2B » Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:35 pm

I am a physician (surgical pathologist) and have practiced for 17 years in both academics and private practice. I am now starting law school in August. My reasons for doing so are based on what I have enjoyed in medicine and wish to augment my medical knowledge with a legal background. Medically related IP is one area, along with bioethics and disability/elderly care law. The niches are out ther for you to fill or create. I'm not leaving a successful practice on a whim; I've put in my legwork researching the very question you raise. Medical school and training has its rigors and so does law school. You may want to contact the American Board of Legal Medicine and obtain their e-book Legal medicine and medical ethics. You will also be able to obtain names of MD/JDs in your area. Send me a message if you want more information. Medical residents can be a source of info but they haven't really started a career yet. I'm NOT a fan of the MD/JD joint degree. Do some work in one or the other before you make a radical change. I wish you luck.

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lostmymojo
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby lostmymojo » Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:44 am

It seems to me that the obvious answer would be teaching as far as what you can do with both.

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Dr. Review
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby Dr. Review » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:05 am

Health law? Possibly research in this area? I know IU-Indy employs at least one professor/researcher with a JD/MD

sperry
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby sperry » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:40 pm

My civil procedure professor has an MD/ JD. Yale Undergrad/ Harvard Med/ Law :roll: No wonder she thought we were stupid.

MD/JD2B
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby MD/JD2B » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:55 pm

The point about teaching with a JD/MD is a good one, especially since more such positions are opening up in academics.

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vamedic03
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby vamedic03 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:17 am

No offense - but y'all are crazy if you think JD/MD is a good idea:

(1) Medicine or Surgery Intern year makes big law look like a joke

(2) Both are intensive professions where part time is 40 hours / week

(3) A JD/MD is not beneficial for med-mal expert witnesses for a couple reasons:
(a) Take Evidence - you'll see how you can get in trouble very quickly if you provide a legal opinion in court
(b) Many localities require you to be an actively practicing physician

(4) Most hospital administrators are either: MD, RN, or MHA (or MBA) . . . most hospital general counsel are JD only - they primarily handle regulatory and contract matters - litigation is outsourced

(5) Two professional degrees are not beneficial for research - neither is a research degree
(a) the big trend now is a JD/PHD - a PHD trains you to conduct empirical research - neither an MD or JD does

Most JD/MD's are by accident - they switched from one career to another . . . most professions are mutually exclusive - you just can't be extremely good or proficient in both at the same time.

We have a need for practicing primary care docs, please don't waste space in a medschool just to stroke your ego.

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APHill
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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby APHill » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:26 am

On a related note - got brochure from UDM stating that you can get JD/LED(Mexican Law Degree)/LLB(Canadian Law degree) in only 6 years instead of 12 if pursued separately...Holy macaroni!!!!!!....Is there a demand for combos like that?....Oh man.

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Re: JD/MD? What can I do w/ it? Anyone pursuing or know somone?

Postby MD/JD2B » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:05 pm

To the person who vehemently opposes an MD/JD:

You bring up some excellent points. It is NOT for everyone. Many things could be done with someone with one degree or the other. If anyone read my earlier post, in my case, it was a decision made after a lot of thought, consulting, and conversations with those with that background. Maybe it is anecdotal at best, but they seemed quite satisfied with their careers. I'm happy doing what I do, but as you get older, you wonder about doing the same thiing for the rest of your life. I have the luxury of making a change. Once again, I would not recommend an MD/JD joint program. One degree may suit you best, so don't waste the time.

Obviously, I think it will work for me, but I won't speak for anyone else who wants to take this route. Look at all points of view and make an educated choice.




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