Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

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dreman510
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby dreman510 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:58 pm

But to answer the OP, what worked for me in the 1st semester-it really depended on the class.
For CivPro-I just Outlined straight from Glannon E&E and kept cutting it down.
For every other class-I outlined from Crunchtime/Emmanuels/old Outlines.

rando
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby rando » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:38 pm

dreman510 wrote:For Conlaw-how do you NOT put cases in? Last semester, I didnt put any cases in, except for like Strawbridge and International Shoe and Asahi.
But Conlaw, there is no BLL, and it seems that you need the cases for everything...


You do put cases in. Do what works for you, but I have put cases in my outlines for every single class I have been in. Profs love to see you compare the fact scenario in the exam to the fact patterns in past cases and why it might come out the same or differently.
BLL often results in a median answer

270910
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby 270910 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:09 pm

rando wrote:BLL often results in a median answer


So do cases. Don't generalize, plenty of people rocked it without ever citing a case.

rando
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby rando » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:21 pm

disco_barred wrote:
rando wrote:BLL often results in a median answer


So do cases. Don't generalize, plenty of people rocked it without ever citing a case.


I specifically didn't generalize. And you're right, cases alone often lean to median answers. What is unclear? Thorough analysis is what is required. Showing an ability to compare a fact pattern to one already decided shows ability beyond reciting BLL. You don't have to use cases, but why wouldn't you if it is an established reference point?

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RVP11
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby RVP11 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:27 pm

disco_barred wrote:
rando wrote:BLL often results in a median answer


So do cases. Don't generalize, plenty of people rocked it without ever citing a case.


My best answers have generally followed this formula:

1. BLL (rule statement + some mention of policy)
2. Application of BLL to the facts
3. Case parallel or comparison, if there is one to be made
4. Counterargument or alternative approach that could be followed, if there is one
5. Conclusion

And my best answers came in classes in which I knew the cases very well and mentioned them frequently in answers, FWIW.

Being mechanical in your analysis and writing, almost to a fault, really pays off on law school exams. When I tried to get tricky or go off the beaten path, I got worse grades.

270910
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby 270910 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:31 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
rando wrote:BLL often results in a median answer


So do cases. Don't generalize, plenty of people rocked it without ever citing a case.


My best answers have generally followed this formula:

1. BLL (rule statement + some mention of policy)
2. Application of BLL to the facts
3. Case parallel or comparison, if there is one to be made
4. Counterargument or alternative approach that could be followed, if there is one
5. Conclusion

And my best answers came in classes in which I knew the cases very well and mentioned them frequently in answers, FWIW.

Being mechanical in your analysis and writing, almost to a fault, really pays off on law school exams. When I tried to get tricky or go off the beaten path, I got worse grades.


...ok? Should I get my sticker book?

I and many others did great and never mentioned a single case in our answers. Such is life in law school, there are 20,000 ways to do it right. So it's fine that you did well and fine that cases were involved, but the causal link would be hard to establish given the other available data.

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RVP11
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby RVP11 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:37 pm

disco_barred wrote:
...ok? Should I get my sticker book?

I and many others did great and never mentioned a single case in our answers. Such is life in law school, there are 20,000 ways to do it right. So it's fine that you did well and fine that cases were involved, but the causal link would be hard to establish given the other available data.


Unnecessary snark, dude. My point was counter to yours, but I didn't assign it any more authority than it deserves. The utility of this thread will probably be to 0Ls and any data points we can throw out there could be helpful to them.

gmichaelbluth
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby gmichaelbluth » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:40 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
rando wrote:BLL often results in a median answer


So do cases. Don't generalize, plenty of people rocked it without ever citing a case.


My best answers have generally followed this formula:

1. BLL (rule statement + some mention of policy)
2. Application of BLL to the facts
3. Case parallel or comparison, if there is one to be made
4. Counterargument or alternative approach that could be followed, if there is one
5. Conclusion

And my best answers came in classes in which I knew the cases very well and mentioned them frequently in answers, FWIW.

Being mechanical in your analysis and writing, almost to a fault, really pays off on law school exams. When I tried to get tricky or go off the beaten path, I got worse grades.


Super helpful thread. Thanks, everyone!

rando
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby rando » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:44 pm

disco_barred wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
rando wrote:BLL often results in a median answer


So do cases. Don't generalize, plenty of people rocked it without ever citing a case.


My best answers have generally followed this formula:

1. BLL (rule statement + some mention of policy)
2. Application of BLL to the facts
3. Case parallel or comparison, if there is one to be made
4. Counterargument or alternative approach that could be followed, if there is one
5. Conclusion

And my best answers came in classes in which I knew the cases very well and mentioned them frequently in answers, FWIW.

Being mechanical in your analysis and writing, almost to a fault, really pays off on law school exams. When I tried to get tricky or go off the beaten path, I got worse grades.


...ok? Should I get my sticker book?

I and many others did great and never mentioned a single case in our answers. Such is life in law school, there are 20,000 ways to do it right. So it's fine that you did well and fine that cases were involved, but the causal link would be hard to establish given the other available data.


The other available data? You and your friends never cited cases and did well?

What don't you get? No one is even saying that you have to cite cases. In fact, I specifically said "BLL often results in a median answer." That says nothing of cases. But leaving cases out of your outline is probably not the best idea because it gives a factual reference point so that you can give the best analysis on an exam.
If all you did on your exams was cite the law and apply it to the facts I am surprised that you did as well as you claim.

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Ipsa Dixit
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby Ipsa Dixit » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:53 am

I hand write outlines, but I don't outline everything.

I will also use old outlines from other students and edit them for my needs/to fit with what I learned.

dreman510
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby dreman510 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:16 am

Ipsa Dixit wrote:I hand write outlines, but I don't outline everything.

I will also use old outlines from other students and edit them for my needs/to fit with what I learned.

I will often use old outlines, but only if I know
a) the student did well
b) the outline fits my style

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mac.empress
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby mac.empress » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:11 pm

dreman510 wrote:
Ipsa Dixit wrote:I hand write outlines, but I don't outline everything.

I will also use old outlines from other students and edit them for my needs/to fit with what I learned.

I will often use old outlines, but only if I know
a) the student did well
b) the outline fits my style


Even if I know those things I still can't use someone else's outline. I tend to re-do the whole bloody thing anyway.

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RVP11
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby RVP11 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:19 pm

I've found the best way to "use" an old outline is just a checklist to make sure you're not missing anything important on yours. And sometimes the way someone else has organized something can be illuminating on a point.

dreman510
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby dreman510 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:28 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:I've found the best way to "use" an old outline is just a checklist to make sure you're not missing anything important on yours. And sometimes the way someone else has organized something can be illuminating on a point.

I probably end up reorganizing it by the time im done, but its just something to start with to make sure im not missing anything, and its not as overwhelming.

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mac.empress
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby mac.empress » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:46 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:I've found the best way to "use" an old outline is just a checklist to make sure you're not missing anything important on yours. And sometimes the way someone else has organized something can be illuminating on a point.


I'll try that then. Thanks.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:17 pm

gmichaelbluth wrote:Super helpful thread. Thanks, everyone!

GTFO of my thread, tagging bitch.

dreman510
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Re: Outlining, What Worked and What Sucked

Postby dreman510 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:18 pm

mikeytwoshoes wrote:
gmichaelbluth wrote:Super helpful thread. Thanks, everyone!

GTFO of my thread, tagging bitch.

Comedy like this helped break up the dullness of outlining




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