What exactly is a gunner?????

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jks289
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby jks289 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:41 pm

disco_barred wrote:
jks289 wrote:The better question is who cares if someone calls you a gunner? Sure, a general rule in life is to not be obnoxious or monopolize discussions to show off. But beyond that, why not prepare to the best of your abilities and in a way you are most comfortable? People on this site seem obsessed with not be labeled a "gunner," but aren't we a little old to be affected by name calling?


Because nobody wants to be labeled as obnoxious? Especially at good schools, your peers are going to be valuable resources down the line. Many forms of 'gunning' are going to make you look anti-cooperative and/or foolish. Your reputation is very important.


I'm not advocating being "that guy." I am just saying, don't most people know the difference between just working hard and being a complete prick about it? Every week there is someone asking "If I do this will some one call me a gunner?!?!" Yes, probably. But so what?

Edited to add: Maybe I am not being clear. I don't plan to do 0L prep or keep my hand perpetually raised in class. I typically have cooperative realtionships with classmates, and hope that continues. But if I thought something would be helpful to me I wouldn't not do it because someone might call me a gunner.
Last edited by jks289 on Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pandacot
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby pandacot » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:42 pm

A'nold wrote:
Doodsmack wrote:
A'nold wrote:Ignoring that advice seems a little bullheaded and self knowing...


While I do think 0L prep is worthless, it's a little odd to call someone "bullheaded and self knowing" for not following the TLS consensus. Just so you know, even if it's from "top students," the TLS consensus carries no authority whatsoever.


O.k.........how many "top 5%" students do you know irl? How many are on this site? 20, 30? What percentage of them advocate pre-law prep? 5%? Out of the entire law school community, that's actually a pretty significant representation to get a feel for whether or not pre-law prep is worth it, I'd wager.


Are you calling Arrow bullheaded and self knowing??? :roll:

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A'nold
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby A'nold » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:46 pm

pandacot wrote:
A'nold wrote:
Doodsmack wrote:
A'nold wrote:Ignoring that advice seems a little bullheaded and self knowing...


While I do think 0L prep is worthless, it's a little odd to call someone "bullheaded and self knowing" for not following the TLS consensus. Just so you know, even if it's from "top students," the TLS consensus carries no authority whatsoever.


O.k.........how many "top 5%" students do you know irl? How many are on this site? 20, 30? What percentage of them advocate pre-law prep? 5%? Out of the entire law school community, that's actually a pretty significant representation to get a feel for whether or not pre-law prep is worth it, I'd wager.


Are you calling Arrow bullheaded and self knowing??? :roll:


Yeah, hello? Arrow is WAY self knowing......is that even a real phrase btw or did I just invent a new TLS/0L gunner term? If the latter.....wohoo! 8)

sdv
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby sdv » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:47 pm

A'nold wrote:
rayiner wrote:
A'nold wrote:There are annoying gunnerish people that are actually smart, but they are very rare.


Hey! I represent that remark!


Yo! What up brotha? 8)

Chicago- another thing: People will call you a gunner for doing things like law preview b/c you are essentially trying to "get ahead," "get a jump start," etc. or even just "feel more comfortable." While this might be true, you have an absolute plethora (this is a gunner word, don't use it in school, haha) of people and advice on here, many of whom are top students, telling you that it is worthless. Ignoring that advice seems a little bullheaded and self knowing, like you already know what's best even though you are a 0L. I chose not to do law preview or read anything about law prior to school based on the upper classmen on this website's advice, and I do not regret it. If you really, really want to know what you will be studying, why don't you pick up some of those 1 sheet cliff notes things at the law library?


Bull. Plethora is a "Three Amigos" word

"Jefe, could you say I have a plethora of pinatas?
"oh yes, yes El Guapo, you have a plethora!"
"Jefe...what is a plethora?"
"..."

--ImageRemoved--

270910
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby 270910 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:51 pm

jks289 wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
jks289 wrote:The better question is who cares if someone calls you a gunner? Sure, a general rule in life is to not be obnoxious or monopolize discussions to show off. But beyond that, why not prepare to the best of your abilities and in a way you are most comfortable? People on this site seem obsessed with not be labeled a "gunner," but aren't we a little old to be affected by name calling?


Because nobody wants to be labeled as obnoxious? Especially at good schools, your peers are going to be valuable resources down the line. Many forms of 'gunning' are going to make you look anti-cooperative and/or foolish. Your reputation is very important.


I'm not advocating being "that guy." I am just saying, don't most people know the difference between just working hard and being a complete prick about it? Every week there is someone asking "If I do this will some one call me a gunner?!?!" Yes, probably. But so what?

Edited to add: Maybe I am not being clear. I don't plan to do 0L prep or keep my hand perpetually raised in class. I typically have cooperative realtionships with classmates, and hope that continues. But if I thought something would be helpful to me I wouldn't not do it because someone might call me a gunner.


Then relax... if you ever get called a gunner, it will be in just. Gunning is a very complex term, because it's thrown around in some many contexts. Sometimes people even self identify with it for fun, 'gotta go gun for legal research' or something like that.

The take home point is that you need to be mindful of the image you project in law school, because everyone is competing. If you're in the front and center seat at library every day with a stack of highlighters and 20 hornbooks... people will notice. If you do the same thing from your home, people won't. Neither is necessarily good or bad - but since grades are zero sum, any overt act of studying isn't just saying "I am trying to do well" - it's also saying "I am trying to beat you".

Sure, we shouldn't revert to high school and trying to look cool by not doing work. Everybody does work. But because everyone is nervous and feels the specter of competition, you don't want to give them reason to think you're 'that guy' in any respect. There's no need to obsess... just understand the psychology behind it all.

pandacot
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby pandacot » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:52 pm

A'nold wrote:
Yeah, hello? Arrow is WAY self knowing......is that even a real phrase btw or did I just invent a new TLS/0L gunner term? If the latter.....wohoo! 8)


:lol: Good catch. It was a trick question. Arrow blazed his own path. +1 million posts for you :lol:

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Cavalier
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby Cavalier » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:54 pm

Don't raise your hand several times per class, and don't brag to everyone about how much studying you're doing. That makes you a bad type of gunner. The good type of gunner works very hard, but isn't obnoxious about it. Feel free to be that type of gunner.

Doodsmack
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby Doodsmack » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:24 pm

A'nold wrote:
Doodsmack wrote:
A'nold wrote:Ignoring that advice seems a little bullheaded and self knowing...


While I do think 0L prep is worthless, it's a little odd to call someone "bullheaded and self knowing" for not following the TLS consensus. Just so you know, even if it's from "top students," the TLS consensus carries no authority whatsoever.


O.k.........how many "top 5%" students do you know irl? How many are on this site? 20, 30? What percentage of them advocate pre-law prep? 5%? Out of the entire law school community, that's actually a pretty significant representation to get a feel for whether or not pre-law prep is worth it, I'd wager.


Anyone can say they're top 5% on an internet forum. Also, 20-30 people is not "significant representation" when it comes to top 5% students at all top law schools.

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A'nold
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby A'nold » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:27 pm

Doodsmack wrote:
A'nold wrote:
Doodsmack wrote:
A'nold wrote:Ignoring that advice seems a little bullheaded and self knowing...


While I do think 0L prep is worthless, it's a little odd to call someone "bullheaded and self knowing" for not following the TLS consensus. Just so you know, even if it's from "top students," the TLS consensus carries no authority whatsoever.


O.k.........how many "top 5%" students do you know irl? How many are on this site? 20, 30? What percentage of them advocate pre-law prep? 5%? Out of the entire law school community, that's actually a pretty significant representation to get a feel for whether or not pre-law prep is worth it, I'd wager.


Anyone can say they're top 5% on an internet forum. Also, 20-30 people is not "significant representation" when it comes to top 5% students at all top law schools.


I was wondering how long it would take for some "trying to be cool OL" to come statistics pwn me on this thread. I was talking more about a random sampling of top students on this site, but way to try to use a technicality to make yourself feel better. Thanks for playing.

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mac.empress
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby mac.empress » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:51 am

A'nold wrote:
I was wondering how long it would take for some "trying to be cool OL" to come statistics pwn me on this thread. I was talking more about a random sampling of top students on this site, but way to try to use a technicality to make yourself feel better. Thanks for playing.


Lawl!

Doodsmack
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby Doodsmack » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:12 am

A'nold wrote:I was wondering how long it would take for some "trying to be cool OL" to come statistics pwn me on this thread. I was talking more about a random sampling of top students on this site, but way to try to use a technicality to make yourself feel better. Thanks for playing.


No you were talking about the entire "law school community." You said nothing about a random sampling of TLS users. You estimated there are 20-30 top 5% students on TLS, in total, and that constitutes "significant representation."

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mac.empress
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby mac.empress » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:16 am

Doodsmack wrote:
A'nold wrote:I was wondering how long it would take for some "trying to be cool OL" to come statistics pwn me on this thread. I was talking more about a random sampling of top students on this site, but way to try to use a technicality to make yourself feel better. Thanks for playing.


No you were talking about the entire "law school community." You said nothing about a random sampling of TLS users. You estimated there are 20-30 top 5% students on TLS, in total, and that constitutes "significant representation."


Honestly? HONESTLY?!

Go study.

Doodsmack
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby Doodsmack » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:24 am

mac.empress wrote:
Doodsmack wrote:
A'nold wrote:I was wondering how long it would take for some "trying to be cool OL" to come statistics pwn me on this thread. I was talking more about a random sampling of top students on this site, but way to try to use a technicality to make yourself feel better. Thanks for playing.


No you were talking about the entire "law school community." You said nothing about a random sampling of TLS users. You estimated there are 20-30 top 5% students on TLS, in total, and that constitutes "significant representation."


Honestly? HONESTLY?!

Go study.


Do you interpret "law school community" to mean "TLS community?"

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A'nold
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby A'nold » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:26 am

mac.empress wrote:
Doodsmack wrote:
A'nold wrote:I was wondering how long it would take for some "trying to be cool OL" to come statistics pwn me on this thread. I was talking more about a random sampling of top students on this site, but way to try to use a technicality to make yourself feel better. Thanks for playing.


No you were talking about the entire "law school community." You said nothing about a random sampling of TLS users. You estimated there are 20-30 top 5% students on TLS, in total, and that constitutes "significant representation."


Honestly? HONESTLY?!

Go study.


Mac.Empress you have the best tar evar!

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gladiator
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby gladiator » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:18 am

rayiner wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:Exactly...I get that...but it still doesn't answer my question, why people who do extra work on their own and don't throw it in others' faces get labeled that way. I mean, if I choose to be in the library every night reading extra, I don't say anything to anyone about it, but people consistently SEE me in the library, would I be labeled one?


[strike]People won't call you a gunner for working hard.[/strike] People will call you a gunner for doing things outside the normal course of behavior. Eg: obviously reading ahead in the casebook, looking up full case opinions online, etc.

You shouldn't worry too much about getting called a gunner. Eg: it's important to read ahead the last few weeks so you can get your outlines in shape and do practice tests. On the other hand, it's often a sign you're doing something inefficient or useless. Eg: signing up for law preview.


People will call you a gunner for working hard, but they won't mean it. Essentially any behavior that involves trying hard in law school is labeled as gunnerish but that's really more of a social thing and everyone understands that (almost) everyone is trying hard so it's no big deal.

The true gunners, and ones who gain notoriety, are the cream of the crop that obnoxiously participate in class providing useless and time wasting opinions or feel the need to express their superiority on a daily basis.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:25 pm

chicagolaw2013 wrote:Exactly...I get that...but it still doesn't answer my question, why people who do extra work on their own and don't throw it in others' faces get labeled that way. I mean, if I choose to be in the library every night reading extra, I don't say anything to anyone about it, but people consistently SEE me in the library, would I be labeled one?

Not that I'd be one...I'll be lucky if I keep up on reading hahahaha...I'm just wondering, because it's used so much here that I think it's getting out of hand.

If you choose this path, your contempt for your fellow students will find a way through your shell. After all, you do all this extra shit and you will want to show it in class, in study group, etc. The old saying is, "if you don't know who the gunner is, it's probably you.

Everyone reads all the time, in the library, at the coffee shop, in the apartment, etc. No one will lable you a gunner for reading. Your feeling of superiority, however, will make you a gunner. It's like the transition of Anakin Skywalker into Darth Vader.

awr20562009
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby awr20562009 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:31 pm


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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:35 pm

A'nold wrote:
mac.empress wrote:
Doodsmack wrote:
A'nold wrote:I was wondering how long it would take for some "trying to be cool OL" to come statistics pwn me on this thread. I was talking more about a random sampling of top students on this site, but way to try to use a technicality to make yourself feel better. Thanks for playing.


No you were talking about the entire "law school community." You said nothing about a random sampling of TLS users. You estimated there are 20-30 top 5% students on TLS, in total, and that constitutes "significant representation."


Honestly? HONESTLY?!

Go study.


Mac.Empress you have the best tar evar!

False, at least three different posters have used that tar but you only see one "kicked in the dick" tar (indicating a legal term of art).

scionb4
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby scionb4 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:41 pm

Total gunner, and resident pimp:

Image

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:33 pm

mikeytwoshoes wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:Exactly...I get that...but it still doesn't answer my question, why people who do extra work on their own and don't throw it in others' faces get labeled that way. I mean, if I choose to be in the library every night reading extra, I don't say anything to anyone about it, but people consistently SEE me in the library, would I be labeled one?

Not that I'd be one...I'll be lucky if I keep up on reading hahahaha...I'm just wondering, because it's used so much here that I think it's getting out of hand.

If you choose this path, your contempt for your fellow students will find a way through your shell. After all, you do all this extra shit and you will want to show it in class, in study group, etc. The old saying is, "if you don't know who the gunner is, it's probably you.

Everyone reads all the time, in the library, at the coffee shop, in the apartment, etc. No one will lable you a gunner for reading. Your feeling of superiority, however, will make you a gunner. It's like the transition of Anakin Skywalker into Darth Vader.


Did you even read my post? How, exactly, do I have a feeling of superiority?

engineer
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby engineer » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:40 pm

You may be a gunner if:
- You raise your hand more than once a week or if you're constantly asking the professor questions in class.
- You do any sort of 0L preparation for law school (not including reading Getting to Maybe, Academic Legal Writing, and a variety of self-help books like Getting Things Done, How to Win Friends and Influence People, Getting to Yes, etc.)
- You talk about your grades AT ALL.
- You hold yourself above your classmates (e.g. I'm an engineer, therefore I'm way smarter than all of these liberal arts majors)

If you have a lot of questions to ask, you save them for office hours. My simple philosophy is that it's stupid to waste your classmates' time in class... let the prof lecture and write your questions in your notes. Try to think through your questions on your own time, and then go to your prof's office hours for more in depth clarification. Asking questions in class will earn you the contempt of your classmates, who will be your colleagues in the future.

rando
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby rando » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:31 pm

engineer wrote:You may be a gunner if:
- You raise your hand more than once a week or if you're constantly asking the professor questions in class.
- You do any sort of 0L preparation for law school (not including reading Getting to Maybe, Academic Legal Writing, and a variety of self-help books like Getting Things Done, How to Win Friends and Influence People, Getting to Yes, etc.)
- You talk about your grades AT ALL.
- You hold yourself above your classmates (e.g. I'm an engineer, therefore I'm way smarter than all of these liberal arts majors)

If you have a lot of questions to ask, you save them for office hours. My simple philosophy is that it's stupid to waste your classmates' time in class... let the prof lecture and write your questions in your notes. Try to think through your questions on your own time, and then go to your prof's office hours for more in depth clarification. Asking questions in class will earn you the contempt of your classmates, who will be your colleagues in the future.


You may not like questions in class but asking them doesn't make you a gunner. In fact, if you have a valid question, lack of clarification can often leave you in the dark for a significant part of the lecture. While you may have contempt for those who ask questions in class, most people don't.

Further, talking about your grades?? Gunning is about going for top grades, not talking about getting them. If you are holding sermon on your class rank in the middle of commons then you are just a jackass. Yet, most people talk about grades within a select group of friends.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:58 pm

Agreed. As I understand it (again, I think "gunner" is wayyyyy overused to describe pretty much everyone), a gunner should be used to describe that obnoxious guy who will not put down his hand in class, and hasssss to respond every single time a question is posed with his fantastic opinion on the topic. What's wrong with asking a question here and there? Not every class, not every time you have a question (if you're lost, go to office hours), but when you have something you don't understand and half the class looks puzzled along with you?

Oh, and wait...I guess if we are all so full of ourselves that we've joined "top-law-schools," wouldn't that make us all gunners? hahahaha

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A'nold
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby A'nold » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:49 pm

A'nold wrote:
mac.empress wrote:
Doodsmack wrote:
A'nold wrote:

No you were talking about the entire "law school community." You said nothing about a random sampling of TLS users. You estimated there are 20-30 top 5% students on TLS, in total, and that constitutes "significant representation."


Honestly? HONESTLY?!

Go study.


Mac.Empress you have the best tar evar!

False, at least three different posters have used that tar but you only see one "kicked in the dick" tar (indicating a legal term of art).


You have a point as I once specifically called my wife over to my computer to see your tar.

engineer
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Re: What exactly is a gunner?????

Postby engineer » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:54 pm

rando wrote:You may not like questions in class but asking them doesn't make you a gunner. In fact, if you have a valid question, lack of clarification can often leave you in the dark for a significant part of the lecture. While you may have contempt for those who ask questions in class, most people don't.


I disagree with you on this point. Many profs prepare for their classes pretty extensively, and asking a ton of question or offering your opinion on every topic may limit the amount of material covered. Granted, some profs prefer the interaction in class, but I think as a general rule, that should be left for smaller class sizes. In a class of 80 or so (like 1L classes), it's more respectful of both the prof and your classmates to reserve your points for office hours. Moreover, office hours let you prove your intelligence to your professor without any impact on how you're viewed by your classmates.




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