I don't believe this guy, but want your take

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Snooker
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:50 pm

Re: I don't believe this guy, but want your take

Postby Snooker » Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:40 pm

The notes cases in my property book last term said that, in a community property jurisdiction, if one of the spouses grossly mishandles the community property during the marriage thereby causing its loss, the other spouse can sue in restitution. This seems like a common enough scenario in our society that there must be some case somewhere that would allow recovery for damage to the audi. This should be especially so since there has always been a strong trend towards penalizing waste of property, and in general a spouse making dispositions of community property must do so in good faith.

I'm not an attorney either. But after reading this thread, I think I'd only trust an attorney for advice at this point.

sprezzatura
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:51 am

Re: I don't believe this guy, but want your take

Postby sprezzatura » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:51 pm

This has been very informative! Thanks, all - especially Snooker right before me. I thought there had to be some caveat like that; it seems like there's too much room for getting away with crimes (of a moral if not legal nature) otherwise.
Also, Renzo - point taken. I'd personally never give up my life and livelihood just to get married, so I guess that never occurred to me.

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HOLLYWOOD MARINE
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Re: I don't believe this guy, but want your take

Postby HOLLYWOOD MARINE » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:10 pm

I'm not a lawyer but I did stay at a holiday inn last night...

No seriously, I see this quite often as a police officer. Your friend can file a report under an unauthorized use of vehicle, he can then advise his insurance company then go speak to a magistrate judge and they can then issue a warrant for the vehicle to be entered into NCIC as stolen since his spouse has left and he can file for separation

Now granted most state laws vary from state to state, this is actually becoming more common and judges are more willing to sign the warrants...

gregw8705
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:02 pm

Re: I don't believe this guy, but want your take

Postby gregw8705 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:57 pm

We're actually discussing the fiduciary duty of spouses in community property states in property right now. It would seem that the wife's management (use) of the property (audi) did not fulfill that fiduciary duty. Spouses have an obligation to use community property for the benefit of the community as a whole, and it seems like trying to dispossess the other spouse of a vehicle and totaling it in the process would be a pretty clear violation of the duties attributed to spouses when managing their community property. He might not have a criminal theft charge to bring, but in the divorce that would seem apparent on the horizon, I think he could recoup some of his losses. I could see a court increasing his share of the community property and reducing hers by the value of the vehicle before she took off with it or something along those lines.

kublaikahn
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:47 am

Re: I don't believe this guy, but want your take

Postby kublaikahn » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:46 pm

betasteve wrote:
HOLLYWOOD MARINE wrote:I'm not a lawyer but I did stay at a holiday inn last night...

No seriously, I see this quite often as a police officer. Your friend can file a report under an unauthorized use of vehicle, he can then advise his insurance company then go speak to a magistrate judge and they can then issue a warrant for the vehicle to be entered into NCIC as stolen since his spouse has left and he can file for separation

Now granted most state laws vary from state to state, this is actually becoming more common and judges are more willing to sign the warrants...

Interesting. I also did some quick Westlaw research, and it seems that even in a communal property jurisdiction, it is possible that a spouse can claim theft of communal property against another spouse if there is intent to permanently deprive the property from the other. See People v. Llamas, 60 Cal. Rptr. 2d 357, 362


I think that is correct. The problem is he will have to prove it in court. If she left three months ago and he only claims damages after the vehicle is totaled, was his approval of her use of the vehicle implicit? Additonally, the car was totalled in an accident, so that would not be blatant disregard for property. On the other hand, she took the car with the intent to disolve the marriage, so a judge could rule the vehicle would be part of her distribution of the marital assets (tough call since he didn't file for legal separation when she split).

The good news is the debt is half hers also. So he loses half a car and some stereo equipment, but gets a fresh start in life. I would assume that the family court where he will undoubtedly file divorce may weigh the circumstances when ruling on issues of spousal maintenance, etc. It certainly doesnt paint her in a good light.

notanumber
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: I don't believe this guy, but want your take

Postby notanumber » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:53 pm

HOLLYWOOD MARINE wrote:I'm not a lawyer but I did stay at a holiday inn last night...

No seriously, I see this quite often as a police officer. Your friend can file a report under an unauthorized use of vehicle, he can then advise his insurance company then go speak to a magistrate judge and they can then issue a warrant for the vehicle to be entered into NCIC as stolen since his spouse has left and he can file for separation

Now granted most state laws vary from state to state, this is actually becoming more common and judges are more willing to sign the warrants...


:shock:

People are crazy.

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A'nold
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: I don't believe this guy, but want your take

Postby A'nold » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:54 pm

kublaikahn wrote:
betasteve wrote:
HOLLYWOOD MARINE wrote:I'm not a lawyer but I did stay at a holiday inn last night...

No seriously, I see this quite often as a police officer. Your friend can file a report under an unauthorized use of vehicle, he can then advise his insurance company then go speak to a magistrate judge and they can then issue a warrant for the vehicle to be entered into NCIC as stolen since his spouse has left and he can file for separation

Now granted most state laws vary from state to state, this is actually becoming more common and judges are more willing to sign the warrants...

Interesting. I also did some quick Westlaw research, and it seems that even in a communal property jurisdiction, it is possible that a spouse can claim theft of communal property against another spouse if there is intent to permanently deprive the property from the other. See People v. Llamas, 60 Cal. Rptr. 2d 357, 362


I think that is correct. The problem is he will have to prove it in court. If she left three months ago and he only claims damages after the vehicle is totaled, was his approval of her use of the vehicle implicit? Additonally, the car was totalled in an accident, so that would not be blatant disregard for property. On the other hand, she took the car with the intent to disolve the marriage, so a judge could rule the vehicle would be part of her distribution of the marital assets (tough call since he didn't file for legal separation when she split).

The good news is the debt is half hers also. So he loses half a car and some stereo equipment, but gets a fresh start in life. I would assume that the family court where he will undoubtedly file divorce may weigh the circumstances when ruling on issues of spousal maintenance, etc. It certainly doesnt paint her in a good light.

*resurrection meme*

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: I don't believe this guy, but want your take

Postby Renzo » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:11 pm

A'nold wrote:
kublaikahn wrote:
betasteve wrote:
HOLLYWOOD MARINE wrote:I'm not a lawyer but I did stay at a holiday inn last night...

No seriously, I see this quite often as a police officer. Your friend can file a report under an unauthorized use of vehicle, he can then advise his insurance company then go speak to a magistrate judge and they can then issue a warrant for the vehicle to be entered into NCIC as stolen since his spouse has left and he can file for separation

Now granted most state laws vary from state to state, this is actually becoming more common and judges are more willing to sign the warrants...

Interesting. I also did some quick Westlaw research, and it seems that even in a communal property jurisdiction, it is possible that a spouse can claim theft of communal property against another spouse if there is intent to permanently deprive the property from the other. See People v. Llamas, 60 Cal. Rptr. 2d 357, 362


I think that is correct. The problem is he will have to prove it in court. If she left three months ago and he only claims damages after the vehicle is totaled, was his approval of her use of the vehicle implicit? Additonally, the car was totalled in an accident, so that would not be blatant disregard for property. On the other hand, she took the car with the intent to disolve the marriage, so a judge could rule the vehicle would be part of her distribution of the marital assets (tough call since he didn't file for legal separation when she split).

The good news is the debt is half hers also. So he loses half a car and some stereo equipment, but gets a fresh start in life. I would assume that the family court where he will undoubtedly file divorce may weigh the circumstances when ruling on issues of spousal maintenance, etc. It certainly doesnt paint her in a good light.

*resurrection meme*

Here's a new take on it:

Image

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A'nold
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: I don't believe this guy, but want your take

Postby A'nold » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:22 am

A'nold wrote:
kublaikahn wrote:
betasteve wrote:
HOLLYWOOD MARINE wrote:Interesting. I also did some quick Westlaw research, and it seems that even in a communal property jurisdiction, it is possible that a spouse can claim theft of communal property against another spouse if there is intent to permanently deprive the property from the other. See People v. Llamas, 60 Cal. Rptr. 2d 357, 362


I think that is correct. The problem is he will have to prove it in court. If she left three months ago and he only claims damages after the vehicle is totaled, was his approval of her use of the vehicle implicit? Additonally, the car was totalled in an accident, so that would not be blatant disregard for property. On the other hand, she took the car with the intent to disolve the marriage, so a judge could rule the vehicle would be part of her distribution of the marital assets (tough call since he didn't file for legal separation when she split).

The good news is the debt is half hers also. So he loses half a car and some stereo equipment, but gets a fresh start in life. I would assume that the family court where he will undoubtedly file divorce may weigh the circumstances when ruling on issues of spousal maintenance, etc. It certainly doesnt paint her in a good light.

*resurrection meme*

Here's a new take on it:

Image

Can't tell what I'm looking at here....




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