best 1L summer jobs?

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diplomat
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best 1L summer jobs?

Postby diplomat » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:08 pm

what are the best 1L summer jobs that one can reasonably get?

270910
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby 270910 » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:02 pm

For $$$:

1) Job at a firm that pays market (VERY hard to get). $1,500-$3,000 per week is possible
2) Research Assistant (RA) for a prof. Very easy to get. More like $400-$600 per week.

For Prestige:

It's reaaalllyyy hard to say, because 1L jobs have strange hiring criteria and there hasn't really been a report of a big prestige bump. There are certain positions: Federal judges that are well known or in competitive (DC/NYC/etc.) locations (district & circuit courts), Department of Justice positions, positions with prosecutors in 'prestigious' locations (NYC, DC, etc.), ACLU, that will stand out /a little/ on your resume.

There are other positions (intern with local type judge, run of the mill research assistant), work with smaller firms / public interest groups, etc. that will do just fine to give you legal experience and stories to tell on your resume but won't have the same veneer of 'impressive' the above jobs would.

Still, the difference between these positions are VERY slight compare to other factors that come to hiring - namely your grades and your law school, plus a 'softs' package (UG, work experience, interests/hobbies) that makes you interesting.

In terms of the work you'll get to do, it's all over the board. Some people have shitty firm experiences, others have great ones. Some wind up with judges who let them draft opinions(!) others wind up with judges who let them get coffee and do editing/copying. RAs tend to be a little removed from everyone else in the sense that they don't do nearly as much memo writing / day to day legal work as they do in depth research. But anything will do.

There are other options too. Some people work on the hill, some work for solo practitioners, some get 'pro bono' jobs where a firm pays them tons of money to help people and then spend some time with the firm, some work in the legal department ('general counsel') office of major corporations.

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ggocat
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby ggocat » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:08 pm

1. Any job that could lead to full time employment.

2. If not #1, then any job that helps you demonstrate to future employers that you want to do a certain type of work or that could indirectly lead to full time employment . (e.g., judicial intern if you want to clerk; public defender / district attorney if you want criminal law; research assistant with a professor in an area of law you want to practice).

3. If not #2, then whatever you're most interested in.

I'd say #1 and #2 could be switched if the option in #1 is not particularly attractive to you, but the option in #2 is. (For example, if you want to clerk, have decent/good 1L grades, and don't want to work at a small firm that might nonetheless hire you later on, then maybe interning for a judge or working for a professor would be better).

Take all of this with a grain of salt. There is no "best" 1L summer job for everybody. Choose the best for you.

Renzo
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby Renzo » Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:14 pm

ggocat wrote:1. Any job that could lead to full time employment.

2. If not #1, then any job that helps you demonstrate to future employers that you want to do a certain type of work or that could indirectly lead to full time employment . (e.g., judicial intern if you want to clerk; public defender / district attorney if you want criminal law; research assistant with a professor in an area of law you want to practice).

3. If not #2, then whatever you're most interested in.

I generally agree, but with 3 caveats.

A) very competitive internships/jobs are a signal to other employers in the prestige-obsessed world of law. So even though a 1L gig with the SDNY USAO won't get you permanent employment, it can have a bit of a merit-badge effect. It's not going to get you a job, but it might possibly get your resume moved up in a pre-interview pile.

B) )If you are really certain you want to clerk, a RA job might move up to category 1, or at least category 1.5. It's one of the easiest ways to build a relationship that will get you a convincing recommendation and/or get someone to reach out to judges on your behalf.

C) There's no evidence whatsoever that judicial internships help secure clerkships, so they should fall to category 3.

270910
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby 270910 » Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:30 pm

Renzo wrote:B) )If you are really certain you want to clerk, a RA job might move up to category 1, or at least category 1.5. It's one of the easiest ways to build a relationship that will get you a convincing recommendation and/or get someone to reach out to judges on your behalf.


While this is true, there is ample time to RA during the school year, so I don't think even the most academia / clerkship oriented person should forsake other opportunities (at least during the beginning of the search) for 1L summer.

Likewise, while a judicial internship won't GET you a clerkship, it might be your only time during LS to see if you like the idea of working with a judge.

We'd be wise not to discount the 'try it and see if you like it' aspect of 1L summer.

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Aeroplane
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby Aeroplane » Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:50 pm

disco_barred wrote:
Renzo wrote:B) )If you are really certain you want to clerk, a RA job might move up to category 1, or at least category 1.5. It's one of the easiest ways to build a relationship that will get you a convincing recommendation and/or get someone to reach out to judges on your behalf.


While this is true, there is ample time to RA during the school year, so I don't think even the most academia / clerkship oriented person should forsake other opportunities (at least during the beginning of the search) for 1L summer.

Likewise, while a judicial internship won't GET you a clerkship, it might be your only time during LS to see if you like the idea of working with a judge.

We'd be wise not to discount the 'try it and see if you like it' aspect of 1L summer.
+100000 to the bolded. You can also RA part-time in the summer while working full time elsewhere. I don't think enough people realize that can be an option.

Renzo
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby Renzo » Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:06 pm

Aeroplane wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
Renzo wrote:B) )If you are really certain you want to clerk, a RA job might move up to category 1, or at least category 1.5. It's one of the easiest ways to build a relationship that will get you a convincing recommendation and/or get someone to reach out to judges on your behalf.


While this is true, there is ample time to RA during the school year, so I don't think even the most academia / clerkship oriented person should forsake other opportunities (at least during the beginning of the search) for 1L summer.

Likewise, while a judicial internship won't GET you a clerkship, it might be your only time during LS to see if you like the idea of working with a judge.

We'd be wise not to discount the 'try it and see if you like it' aspect of 1L summer.
+100000 to the bolded. You can also RA part-time in the summer while working full time elsewhere. I don't think enough people realize that can be an option.

True enough on both counts.

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ggocat
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby ggocat » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:22 pm

Renzo wrote:C) There's no evidence whatsoever that judicial internships help secure clerkships, so they should fall to category 3.

A judicial internship will certainly not make up for poor grades, writing, or recommendations, but I think it could tip the scale in your favor of getting an interview if all else is equal. It allows you to say something sincere (either in the cover letter, in the interview, or both) about your desire to clerk. FWIW, I'm clerking next year.

Renzo
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby Renzo » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:27 pm

ggocat wrote:
Renzo wrote:C) There's no evidence whatsoever that judicial internships help secure clerkships, so they should fall to category 3.

A judicial internship will certainly not make up for poor grades, writing, or recommendations, but I think it could tip the scale in your favor of getting an interview if all else is equal. It allows you to say something sincere (either in the cover letter, in the interview, or both) about your desire to clerk. FWIW, I'm clerking next year.

The OCS at my school actually did empiric research on this over several years and found zero correlation between judicial internships and clerkships, but you are right that it could provide good interview/cover letter material.

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ggocat
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby ggocat » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:10 pm

Renzo wrote:
ggocat wrote:
Renzo wrote:C) There's no evidence whatsoever that judicial internships help secure clerkships, so they should fall to category 3.

A judicial internship will certainly not make up for poor grades, writing, or recommendations, but I think it could tip the scale in your favor of getting an interview if all else is equal. It allows you to say something sincere (either in the cover letter, in the interview, or both) about your desire to clerk. FWIW, I'm clerking next year.

The OCS at my school actually did empiric research on this over several years and found zero correlation between judicial internships and clerkships, but you are right that it could provide good interview/cover letter material.

That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing the info. Which school?

Renzo
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:29 am

ggocat wrote:
Renzo wrote:
ggocat wrote:
Renzo wrote:C) There's no evidence whatsoever that judicial internships help secure clerkships, so they should fall to category 3.

A judicial internship will certainly not make up for poor grades, writing, or recommendations, but I think it could tip the scale in your favor of getting an interview if all else is equal. It allows you to say something sincere (either in the cover letter, in the interview, or both) about your desire to clerk. FWIW, I'm clerking next year.

The OCS at my school actually did empiric research on this over several years and found zero correlation between judicial internships and clerkships, but you are right that it could provide good interview/cover letter material.

That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing the info. Which school?

NYU

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Bosque
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby Bosque » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:48 am

Renzo wrote:
ggocat wrote:
Renzo wrote:C) There's no evidence whatsoever that judicial internships help secure clerkships, so they should fall to category 3.

A judicial internship will certainly not make up for poor grades, writing, or recommendations, but I think it could tip the scale in your favor of getting an interview if all else is equal. It allows you to say something sincere (either in the cover letter, in the interview, or both) about your desire to clerk. FWIW, I'm clerking next year.

The OCS at my school actually did empiric research on this over several years and found zero correlation between judicial internships and clerkships, but you are right that it could provide good interview/cover letter material.


I agree. If the Judicial intern was going up against his or her law school twin, the only difference being that the twin didn't have a job 1L summer, the judicial intern would get it. But if the twin worked at a firm, with the USAO, or as an RA their 1L summer, I would say it is a coin flip. Judicial internships are not going to hurt, but they ain't gonna help either (more than other equivalent jobs would).

legends159
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby legends159 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:07 pm

I could see it helping somewhat if you apply to the same judge for a clerkship. However, some judges have a policy of not hiring any former externs for clerkships so as not to offend anyone.

It also would help if your judge will make a call for you, or if the judge you want to clerk for calls the former judge to inquire about your work ethics.

diplomat
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby diplomat » Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:46 pm

thank you!

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: best 1L summer jobs?

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:49 am

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