Are 1L grades the only ones that matter?

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ok2bedifferent
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Are 1L grades the only ones that matter?

Postby ok2bedifferent » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:09 am

I read a lot from 1Ls who want to quit law school because their first semester grades are horrible. But I'm wondering where I fit in all the grand scheme. I did well my first year, then it went downhill..... I don't know what happened, must be that the kids are smarter at my new school (where I transferred to). How is a downward trend viewed? and would an upward trend in later years matter? is it 1L gpa or overall gpa?

Renzo
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Re: Are 1L grades the only ones that matter?

Postby Renzo » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:17 am

1L grades matter because that's all that is available at OCI, which presumably you knew. Did you do OCI?

09042014
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Re: Are 1L grades the only ones that matter?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:21 am

Firms hire on 1
Judges hire on 2
Awards are given based on 3

jetlagz28
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Re: Are 1L grades the only ones that matter?

Postby jetlagz28 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:22 am

1L grades hook you up your ENTIRE 2L year and into the summer.

ok2bedifferent
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Re: Are 1L grades the only ones that matter?

Postby ok2bedifferent » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:21 pm

Renzo wrote:1L grades matter because that's all that is available at OCI, which presumably you knew. Did you do OCI?


No, I didn't know. But I'm assuming for summer internships yes....but not everyone get future offers from summer internships, so... I'm assuming that firms/judges that interview graduates for permanent positions/clerkships look at the overall gpa, no?

Renzo
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Re: Are 1L grades the only ones that matter?

Postby Renzo » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:28 pm

ok2bedifferent wrote:
Renzo wrote:1L grades matter because that's all that is available at OCI, which presumably you knew. Did you do OCI?


No, I didn't know. But I'm assuming for summer internships yes....but not everyone get future offers from summer internships, so... I'm assuming that firms/judges that interview graduates for permanent positions/clerkships look at the overall gpa, no?

If you didn't get a 2L job from OCI, then your 1L grades aren't any more or less important than any other grades on your transcript, I wouldn't think.

FrankReynolds
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Re: Are 1L grades the only ones that matter?

Postby FrankReynolds » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:15 pm

obviously prospective employers will look at all grades that are available. this is common sense. as mentioned 1L grades typically matter most cause that is all that is available when you interview for 2l summer. If you are applying later on in your law school education, just keep in mind that the curve usually loosens after your first year, and employers are aware of this. i.e. if your grades get worse 2l/3l, while the average gpa rises, it isn;t a great signal.

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TTT-LS
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Re: Are 1L grades the only ones that matter?

Postby TTT-LS » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:41 pm

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Last edited by TTT-LS on Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Renzo
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Re: Are 1L grades the only ones that matter?

Postby Renzo » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:26 pm

ntzsch wrote:
so you are saying that if i do pull a 80K+ (arbitrary #, o well) job at a firm as a student, it will likely be during this '1L OCI' you speak of? (fwiw at a low T30).

thanks.

It's your 2L OCI, but at most schools it happens first thing when you get back from summer break, before the 2L fall grades are in. The usual course into a big firm is 2L summer at the firm, which hopefully leads to a permanent offer.

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Nazrix
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Re: Are 1L grades the only ones that matter?

Postby Nazrix » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:46 am

Renzo wrote:
ntzsch wrote:
so you are saying that if i do pull a 80K+ (arbitrary #, o well) job at a firm as a student, it will likely be during this '1L OCI' you speak of? (fwiw at a low T30).

thanks.

It's your 2L OCI, but at most schools it happens first thing when you get back from summer break, before the 2L fall grades are in. The usual course into a big firm is 2L summer at the firm, which hopefully leads to a permanent offer.



1L grades are all that matter for OCI, which is CURRENTLy virtually the only route to biglaw. at a t20 in a major market, people who got top 10% 2L, who had firm jobs from 1L, got no offered/offered regardless of 2L gpa, in fact, several firms did not ask for 2L grades after the conclusion of the Summer Associate program in the 2L summer....in fact a certain firm known by the name MLB, only asked 1/2 of their grads for their 2L transcripts, each of those were no offered, as a whole they did no better or worse academically than their counter parts.

3L oci at this T20 in a major market has 3 employers, JAG, JAG, and JAG, who recently turned down someone who was a Captain in the US Army who went to West Point, summered at a vault 20 firm, and a Lt. in the army who took all Jag-centered courses (crim pro/homeland security law/int'l law/trial prep, etc.) ...both were in peak condition, and officers for multiple years...also, the JAG process isn't an insta-hire thing it's based on a LOT of processes, like many bureaucratic jobs...

Clerkships this year were largely unavailable, even at state trial court levels, some people did ok, but being from a top school didn't help more or less with this, outside of top 10% one person, whose dad is a COA judge, got a clerkship, he was top 15%, and had a supreme court recommendation from an Assoc. Just. on that court who taught a class of his.

Unfortunately, things are bad, also, many top 10% got 0 callbacks this past OCI (1L OCI for 2nd summer)...good news is no longer the norm, but few and far between. If you are going into heavy debt load, consider a break from LS...




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