Necessities for Law School

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pandacot
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby pandacot » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:26 am

A well-tailored suit, regardless of black or navy would do just fine. I've seen several job candidates wearing ill-fitting suits while working in the accounting field. The suit was the first topic discussed after the candidate left the interview.

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AlasLavinia
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby AlasLavinia » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:29 am

I lived and worked in Paris for a year, then in Madrid for seven months. Most people, regardless of gender, prefer black suits for business. Especially in Paris, there is a preference for black overall for all business dress. And it cuts broadly across the spectrum of professions - bankers, real estate agents, brokers, engineers, gallery owners. I think this is becoming more and more popular in the US, especially in NY, where I am now.

Side note: I also worked in Saudi Arabia for 6 months. There, the women always wear black head to toe. LOL. The men wear white, red, and gold. LOLOLOLONE.

As a final comment, you should wear what suits your coloring. I am red headed. I wear dark brown.

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thalassocrat
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby thalassocrat » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:32 am

tintin wrote:are women expected to wear hose all the time????


god, i hope not. :|


If you're wearing a skirt, I should think so. I don't really know if bare legs are appropriate (I think they look weird in a suit), but either way I've never had dress shoes of any sort that wouldn't give me blisters if I wore them alone. With pants, trouser socks should be fine. I could be wrong, though--someone with more business-dress experience please correct me if so.

BobSacamano
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby BobSacamano » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:33 am

I agree that you shouldn't wear a black suit to a job interview, but in the office setting black is totally fine right now. They lost their "funerals and weddings" reputation a long time ago. Still, though, don't risk anything with an interview. You never know when you'll get the crusty, old geezer interviewer.

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TTH
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby TTH » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:34 am

--ImageRemoved--

And we're still waiting on the comprehensive law fashion article, Beta, seriously I need that shit before fall 2011. I'm counting on you.

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tintin
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby tintin » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:42 am

thalassocrat wrote:
tintin wrote:are women expected to wear hose all the time????


god, i hope not. :|


If you're wearing a skirt, I should think so. I don't really know if bare legs are appropriate (I think they look weird in a suit), but either way I've never had dress shoes of any sort that wouldn't give me blisters if I wore them alone. With pants, trouser socks should be fine. I could be wrong, though--someone with more business-dress experience please correct me if so.


I guess you are right about it looking weird. I hate hose / never wear skirts so I wouldn't know. I wish there was a business style of dress appropriate for those of us who don't fit neatly into the gender binary. :roll:

Renzo
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby Renzo » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:50 am

betasteve wrote:
jmk261 wrote:I work at a US Attorney's Office on the east coast and can say that the men here wear black suits often.

Don't they argue for death penalty and life sentences often? Seems pretty dark to me... :lol:


In all seriousness, though - I am not arguing black is not stylish (as this is a whole different argument), I am arguing you shouldn't wear a black suit during the "get a job" process. Will most lawyers either not care at all, or if they do care about style, be fine with it? Yes. However, because the legal world is rather conservative, and partners did mostly come up in a time when black was off limits for suits, there is an increased chance of turning someone off or making a less then great impression (based solely on the color of your suit). Do you really want to take that chance because it looks good on you? This is the thrust of my argument. Don't take unnecessary chances when trying to get a job.

As a pro-black suit for business person, I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. It's not worth running into the one person who would think you're trying too hard or didn't know any different.

DukeHopeful
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby DukeHopeful » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:00 am

Per the suit debate, I used to be a salesman at Jos A Banks for some time, and I don't recall the "no black, no pinstripes" rule for interviewing. Not to say that it doesn't exist, I just would have thought that we would have been taught that, since we receive a good bit of training on dressing (obviously). Also, why is it poor etiquette to wear better than a plain, solid Men's Wearhouse suit to an interview? Working at Jos A Banks, I got great deals on a lot of really fine, top of the line suits. They are not gaudy, by any means. Would it be bad to wear a $1,300+ (MSRP) suit to an interview, in light of the "power" argument? Also, along the same lines, are red ties off limits?

Renzo
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby Renzo » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:02 am

DukeHopeful wrote:Per the suit debate, I used to be a salesman at Jos A Banks for some time, and I don't recall the "no black, no pinstripes" rule for interviewing. Not to say that it doesn't exist, I just would have thought that we would have been taught that, since we receive a good bit of training on dressing (obviously). Also, why is it poor etiquette to wear better than a plain, solid Men's Wearhouse suit to an interview? Working at Jos A Banks, I got great deals on a lot of really fine, top of the line suits. They are not gaudy, by any means. Would it be bad to wear a $1,300+ (MSRP) suit to an interview, in light of the "power" argument? Also, along the same lines, are red ties off limits?

There's no problem with pinstripes, in my opinion, except this: if you only own one or two suits, then the plainer, the better.

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bceagles182
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby bceagles182 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:13 am

Lube

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chipotlaw
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby chipotlaw » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:15 am

thesealocust wrote:Image

nice...

DukeHopeful
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby DukeHopeful » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:17 am

I actually own way too many suits for anyone who is 21 haha. This comes from from getting such good deals, though, I'm kind of an impulse spender and I could never pass up a nice $1300 suit for $100. I probably own 6-8 suits, but since the interviewer doesn't know how many suits you own, would the "plainer the better" rule actually change if you own more than one or two suits? Or are you just saying if you are only going to buy one or two, make sure you get a plain one?

Also, for everyone looking for a suit, find a Jos A Bank Factory Outlet. Seriously. You will save untold amounts of money on great suits. Unfortunately, I think there is only 13 of them, and they are all on the East Coast. But if you can get there, it's worth it.

Edit for betasteve: I took the consensus to be that a suit should be as conservative as possible. True, you can certainly buy an expensive solid suit, but there are still obvious (at least to me from working with them for so long) elements of a suit that can say "I cost $$$". I just wasn't sure where that fell in terms of conservativeness (a word?). I do agree with the tie, though.

I guess I just sort of thought that presenting yourself as well-dressed, style-conscious, and confident would plusses when interviewing in a prestigious position, but I can understand the sentiment of not outdressing your interviewer. Also, because the rules have been said to be different for women, does it matter if the interviewer is male or female? My SEO interview is with a woman.

School? wrote:I believe that black works for some people, and doesn't for others... I often hear "No pleats in the pants", but then I see an overweight man wearing flat front pants in a suit and he looks like he's hiding cantaloupes in the legs of his pants.... I think the best advice I was given while looking for suits was to go to a department storeand ask the professionals that work there. Different suits work for different body types, skin colors, etc....


When I was selling suits, back in 08, flat fronts were the in thing, but some still bought pleats, saying they were "Bringing them back." That said, pleats in general tend to make your lower body look larger, I believe. Flat front pants present a slimmer look. Now, if you have lumpy cantaloupe legs...

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jlnoa0915
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby jlnoa0915 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:20 am

Not understanding this no black no pinstripe (I personally only wear thin pinstripes the thick ones don't seem to look good to me)suit thing. I've worn both to job interviews while in and coming out of college and have yet to be turned down from a job. (Big banks and investment companies) The interviewers are more concerned with you as a person than what you wear. Of course if you come in looking like a bum it may be a different story.

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NatSec
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby NatSec » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:21 am

I'm currently in the business world, as is my wife, so I'll opine a bit. I've worked in industries both conservative and more modern and the consensus is you maintain neutrality until you are in. This means navy or dark charcol, and I dare even the fashion snobs to distinguish my dark charcol from black, during interviews and when you begin employment. Shirts are as white as possible or a very, very light cream. Ties are basic colors, usually red or blue, with minimal patterns. Shoes, no matter the color are to be polished and match the belt, and socks are to match the suit. You really can tell black socks with a navy suit.

From my wife's wardrobe, skirt-suits are appropriate, grays, black and navy. Panty-hose are encouraged but not required. Pant-suits are fine, and depending on body type may actually be preferred. The whole goal for the females is as little skin exposed as possible and nothing that draws attention in a singular way. Everything should work together.

No pinstripes. For anybody. Until you work there awhile. Once you work some place and see what they wear in the office then you can phase in the different shoes and the pinstripes and the black men's suits. I was told something when I joined my current company that works well, "Their perception is our reality." Meaning, no matter how good you think you look or if you think something works, if the other person doesn't think that you're screwed. I have a couple of suits and ties that I look amazing in, but if the interviewer or my client doesn't think so, it doesn't matter.

Sorry for being so long winded.

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Philo38
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby Philo38 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:38 am

betasteve wrote:
Renzo wrote:
Georgiana wrote:
thorntll wrote:Whoa whoa WHOA... How did I not know this about black suits?! I am a pretty fashion-conscious woman. I mean, really, fashion is a bit of a passion of mine. The fact that everyone on this board had such a consensus about black suits is freaking me out. Black is white, up is down!

Seriously though, I did NOT know this. My only suit is black. I chose it because black is so much easier to match with shirts than charcoal, and especially more than navy. God I feel like a loser now.

Does this anti-black sentiment apply equally to women's suits?

Different rule for women.

Yeah, doesn't apply to women, and I call BS on the 'no black for business' rule for men, too. No black suits with white shirts and plain ties is a good rule, but I can make a black suit look plenty good and not at all like a tuxedo with the right shirt and tie.

No black for business IS a rule in legal or other conservative professions. DOesn't matter how well you can wear it.


I work at a law firm, and several of the partners (including one who teaches classes at a t-20) wear black suits regularly.

09042014
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:38 am

I think anyone looking to only buy one suit should note that while some don't care, there are definitely people who do look down at black for business, especially for an interview.

Why risk it?

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tintin
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby tintin » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:38 am

this discussion gives me added motivation to get into academia, so i can wear sweatervests without consequence...

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NatSec
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby NatSec » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:40 am

I'm hoping for academia so I can wear blazers with leather elbow patches.

09042014
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:43 am

I'm hoping I finish above median so I can get a public defender job, so I don't have to sell BMW's.

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NatSec
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby NatSec » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:46 am

breaking away from clothing, is there a preferred operating system for laptops? I have one currently that runs Vista but I have no problem buying a new one that runs Win. 7. Macs are not an option.

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Philo38
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby Philo38 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:48 am

betasteve wrote:
Philo38 wrote:I work at a law firm, and several of the partners (including one who teaches classes at a t-20) wear black suits regularly.

Feel free to read the rest of the posts that clarify the position you quoted.


Right, I agree with your thoughts on interviews. I am just interested in adding further evidence to the point that no black is certainly no longer a rule for business wear.

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Philo38
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby Philo38 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:53 am

NatSec wrote:I'm currently in the business world, as is my wife, so I'll opine a bit. I've worked in industries both conservative and more modern and the consensus is you maintain neutrality until you are in. This means navy or dark charcol, and I dare even the fashion snobs to distinguish my dark charcol from black, during interviews and when you begin employment. Shirts are as white as possible or a very, very light cream. Ties are basic colors, usually red or blue, with minimal patterns. Shoes, no matter the color are to be polished and match the belt, and socks are to match the suit. You really can tell black socks with a navy suit.

From my wife's wardrobe, skirt-suits are appropriate, grays, black and navy. Panty-hose are encouraged but not required. Pant-suits are fine, and depending on body type may actually be preferred. The whole goal for the females is as little skin exposed as possible and nothing that draws attention in a singular way. Everything should work together.

No pinstripes. For anybody. Until you work there awhile. Once you work some place and see what they wear in the office then you can phase in the different shoes and the pinstripes and the black men's suits. I was told something when I joined my current company that works well, "Their perception is our reality." Meaning, no matter how good you think you look or if you think something works, if the other person doesn't think that you're screwed. I have a couple of suits and ties that I look amazing in, but if the interviewer or my client doesn't think so, it doesn't matter.

Sorry for being so long winded.


The senior partner at the firm I work at is notorious for demoralizing new attorneys who make the mistake of thinking casual Friday should apply to them.

The Kim Jong illest
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby The Kim Jong illest » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:00 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
emoticons777 wrote:Headphones (more helpful than you will ever realize)
Highlighters (they go sssooo fast)
Back up hard drive (and actually use it)
USB Flash Drive (comes in handy more than you would think)
Suit (Black is the easiest)
Comfortable Bed (Memory Foam toppers are the best)
Snacks for the Library (Prevents you from spending too much $ at school)


I thought Navy was the go to business suit color.


Yeah, definitely.

IN 1996!!!!! OMG ROFL.

Seriously though get a gray suit.

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Philo38
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby Philo38 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:05 pm

The Kim Jong illest wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
emoticons777 wrote:Headphones (more helpful than you will ever realize)
Highlighters (they go sssooo fast)
Back up hard drive (and actually use it)
USB Flash Drive (comes in handy more than you would think)
Suit (Black is the easiest)
Comfortable Bed (Memory Foam toppers are the best)
Snacks for the Library (Prevents you from spending too much $ at school)


I thought Navy was the go to business suit color.


Yeah, definitely.

IN 1996!!!!! OMG ROFL.

Seriously though get a gray suit.


How does everybody feel about suspenders? and 3-piece suits?

Pearalegal
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Re: Necessities for Law School

Postby Pearalegal » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:05 pm

tintin wrote:I guess you are right about it looking weird. I hate hose / never wear skirts so I wouldn't know. I wish there was a business style of dress appropriate for those of us who don't fit neatly into the gender binary. :roll:


Then wear pants.




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