Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

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solidsnake
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Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby solidsnake » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:48 pm

Some three weeks after finals I can still think of new arguments and lines of analysis that I could have and, more importantly, should have explored in my essay answers. When professors respond to the query, "What makes an A essay?" with "an answer that, under the same time constraints, I myself would write," can an imperfect or incomplete exam answer, then, still earn an A grade? I understand that the stock answer would be something along the lines of "as long as 95% of class was just as imperfect or incomplete." But is there at least some degree of absolutism involved? Or is [grading] strictly relative?

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thesealocust
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:52 pm

n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:06 pm

Generally if you understand the subject so well that you are (obviously without looking at the thrown-out class notes) dissecting your answer and finding flaws with it, what you wrote is going to be perfectly fine.

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steve_nash
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby steve_nash » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:37 pm

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Last edited by steve_nash on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

solidsnake
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby solidsnake » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:51 pm

I technically "finished" each of my exams, but certain issues that I touched on could have used more exposition.

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thesealocust
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:09 pm

n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Bankhead
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby Bankhead » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:13 pm

Solid, I read a certain civ pro exam model answer (written by a student) that omitted many issues entirely and still got the top grade in the class. For example, summary judgment was mentioned in the professor's "checklist" but the model answer never mentioned it...

I think it varies by professor though. My torts prof, for example, seems to want perfect answers in order to award an A...

P.S. I think your fine man. I've seen your analysis on this board before. Pretty sick stuff.

HAMBONE
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby HAMBONE » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:34 pm

according to my K's professor the highest scorers will only get around a 70% because there will be so many things to talk about. It really depends on how your professor designed the exam and how your other classmates performed on it

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:47 pm

My Civ Pro professor said his typical exam will have about 160-180 possible points. His A's typically land somewhere around 100 points. That is what is getting me through these several weeks.

solidsnake
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby solidsnake » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:56 pm

thesealocust wrote: but I don't think there's any more encouragement that can be given?


I'm ideally looking for testimony from 2 and 3Ls, like steve_nash, who have written exams knowing in hindsight that their answers were incomplete or imperfect yet still received high grades for those answers. I guess I can't shake the notion that an A answer means a reasonably perfect answer, and not simply one that is better than everyone else's yet still objectively shit.

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Nazrix
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby Nazrix » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:22 pm

Hard to say, but as a 3L:

I've had tests where there were 100 issues and the best grade was 60 of 100 issues. That is very INCOMPLETE, that is like leaving over 1/3 of the test and getting the BEST grade....i.e. if you have a 3 question test, you could do well if you just nail 1 of them.

The crap I have written and gotten A+s, As, and A-s, it's amazing, so don't feel so bad.

Ask yourself this:

1. Did you work the entire time?
2. Did you put down answers pretty readily for the entire exam?
3. Did you simply just run out of time?

If the answers are "yes," you might get the best grade!

Another story my contracts prof told us was that there are MANY ways to get an A+ paper. You can hit all the issues and briefly answer them (i.e. necessarily incomplete quick analysis) and get an A, or you can hit a few issues but cover them really well. I think most essay exams are that way, there are points you can get quickly but there are also lots of points that require thoughtful deep analysis.

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thesealocust
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:30 pm

n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:39 pm

You can only get median if you write a nearly perfect treatise that is a complete and total dissection of the issues presented by the exam. Above median requires that + money stapled to the exam/slipped under the registrar's door.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:43 pm

Nazrix wrote:Hard to say, but as a 3L:

I've had tests where there were 100 issues and the best grade was 60 of 100 issues. That is very INCOMPLETE, that is like leaving over 1/3 of the test and getting the BEST grade....i.e. if you have a 3 question test, you could do well if you just nail 1 of them.

The crap I have written and gotten A+s, As, and A-s, it's amazing, so don't feel so bad.

Ask yourself this:

1. Did you work the entire time?
2. Did you put down answers pretty readily for the entire exam?
3. Did you simply just run out of time?

If the answers are "yes," you might get the best grade!

Another story my contracts prof told us was that there are MANY ways to get an A+ paper. You can hit all the issues and briefly answer them (i.e. necessarily incomplete quick analysis) and get an A, or you can hit a few issues but cover them really well. I think most essay exams are that way, there are points you can get quickly but there are also lots of points that require thoughtful deep analysis.


This is really good to know; thank you. I am waiting anxiously for my Ks grade, and this is how I approached the exam. To save time, I only jotted down comments in the margins before I started typing, since I know I'm not the fastest typist in the class. I even agonized over taking two minutes to use the restroom (it was a three hour exam). I tried to be concise, but I know I lacked the time to be in depth. I hope good things will come of it.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:55 pm

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:Generally if you understand the subject so well that you are (obviously without looking at the thrown-out class notes) dissecting your answer and finding flaws with it, what you wrote is going to be perfectly fine.


This is encouraging...sort of.

Bankhead
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby Bankhead » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:20 am

I have a friend who wrote three words for one of his torts exam questions and got an A (not sure on what Restatement number/topic was):

"No. (Restatement _)"

He said that some people wrote over 2k words on this question. He wrote less than 1k words total on the entire exam.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:23 am

I'm going to go ahead and say pix or it didn't happen.

Bankhead
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby Bankhead » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:23 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:I'm going to go ahead and say pix or it didn't happen.


lol... he could be lying to me but I took his word on it. maybe he's just a succinct (and in this case conclusory) mother fucker?

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:28 am

Bankhead wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:I'm going to go ahead and say pix or it didn't happen.


lol... he could be lying to me but I took his word on it. maybe he's just a succinct (and in this case conclusory) mother fucker?


As odd as law school exam grading may be, simply citing a Restatement section will result in an F.

The thing is, everyone jokes about going in to exams and doing this. Before my secured transactions exam, we all said we were just going to write "See: UCC Article 9," take a massive swing from a flask, and walk out.

29 pages later, that is not what I did. No one actually does what you're saying, and it's just too "law school urban legend"-ish to pass muster.

Bankhead
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby Bankhead » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:30 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
Bankhead wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:I'm going to go ahead and say pix or it didn't happen.


lol... he could be lying to me but I took his word on it. maybe he's just a succinct (and in this case conclusory) mother fucker?


As odd as law school exam grading may be, simply citing a Restatement section will result in an F.

The thing is, everyone jokes about going in to exams and doing this. Before my secured transactions exam, we all said we were just going to write "See: UCC Article 9," take a massive swing from a flask, and walk out.

29 pages later, that is not what I did. No one actually does what you're saying, and it's just too "law school urban legend"-ish to pass muster.


Hah well I'm gonna call bull on your 29 pages! What is that 15k words? :wink:

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:31 am

Bankhead wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:
Bankhead wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:I'm going to go ahead and say pix or it didn't happen.


lol... he could be lying to me but I took his word on it. maybe he's just a succinct (and in this case conclusory) mother fucker?


As odd as law school exam grading may be, simply citing a Restatement section will result in an F.

The thing is, everyone jokes about going in to exams and doing this. Before my secured transactions exam, we all said we were just going to write "See: UCC Article 9," take a massive swing from a flask, and walk out.

29 pages later, that is not what I did. No one actually does what you're saying, and it's just too "law school urban legend"-ish to pass muster.


Hah well I'm gonna call bull on your 29 pages! What is that 15k words? :wink:


29 pages double-spaced. It might have been 25, I suppose I'll qualify myself. I can't remember exactly.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:48 am

.
Last edited by pasteurizedmilk on Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:54 am

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:29 pages double-spaced. It might have been 25, I suppose I'll qualify myself. I can't remember exactly.


how many hours?


Bleh, let's get off this issue, there are other threads about it, and these always turn in to flamefests. 3 hours. PM me if you want to inquire more, I suppose.

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rayiner
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby rayiner » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:59 am

Depends on the curve. At NU at least 15% of the class has to get an A or A+. So for example, on my torts midterm, you needed roughly 82/93 points to get an A. Points were things like "X, Y, and Z could've been multiple sufficient causes of A's harm", so you could really miss a substantial amount of stuff and still get an A. On my K's midterm, it was like 18/25 or something for an A, and again you could miss pretty substantial things and still get that many points.
Last edited by rayiner on Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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apper123
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Re: Imperfect and/or Incomplete Exam Answers

Postby apper123 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:02 am

edit - nvm




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