Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

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awesomepossum
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby awesomepossum » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:09 pm

and I'm going to kill AP for the magic eight ball shtick



:oops:

Snooker
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby Snooker » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:26 pm

200k is a hell of a lot. That figure scares me. Why would a bank lend out that much money? If you don't make biglaw, and repayment is capped at 10% of your income, and you are making 100k per year, well, 200k + 8% is $16,000 and the amount you have to repay is $10,000. Guaranteed by the federal government doesn't mean anything if the debt load is so crushing that there's no way you could possibly pay it back. I've heard of people borrowing upwards of $500,000 in loans. It's outrageous.

1Lpanic
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby 1Lpanic » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:31 pm

Fordham with tuition and cost of living is $68k. Over three years it's approx 204k.

1Lpanic
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby 1Lpanic » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:32 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
1Lpanic wrote:Thanks everyone for the advice. I really hope my remaining two grades are higher than a B, but I'm not confident. I will keep you guys posted.

And no, I'm not a troll. I just preferred not to use my other TLS username which has more identifying information since I know my classmates use this site :/


I know you aren't a troll. I won't speculate about who you are because I don't want to know anyone else's grades, but please believe me that you will be fine. Congrats on your courage for looking. My hands are still shaking. You are going to be fine. One B is not bad. At least you looked, which is more than I can bring myself to do.

False alarm for me. None of my grades are up. If your other two grades were at least B+s, you will still be above median. I just calculated it out. You could also get two Bs and an A- and be above median. Take comfort that we have no grade inflation. Top 10% is only just above a 3.5.


I'm just desperately worried because I highly doubt I got both a B+ in Crim and Contracts or an A- in either. It really is likely I will be at median or below.

The thought of the 200k in loans is frightening if I am only looking at a career making 60k a year.

Bankhead
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby Bankhead » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:18 pm

With all due respect, you must have realized going in that you would more likely than not miss the biglaw hiring curve... was your plan to drop originally, provided that happened?

sting
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby sting » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:25 pm

Why would you shell out ~$20k to go to a school that you wouldn't stay at if you had median grades? Seems like a hell of a gamble when you by definition have < a 50% shot at doing well enough to want to stick around (assuming that everyone works hard and has about the same capabilities coming in, which is pretty valid for most decent schools).

Regardless, you need to relax. You only have one grade back. I know you think you couldn't have done any better on your other exams, but you really have no idea. Even if you are at median or below, there's still next semester. Talk to your profs and find out where you went wrong. I worked really hard 1st semester 1L and still got one really shitty grade that pulled my GPA below median. Second semester I changed up my strategy a bit, did a lot better, and ended up just under top quarter for OCI. A few of my friends had similar improvements.

I know it sucks to get a grade that's worse than you expected, but you really have no reason to be panicking yet.

metsfan2486
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby metsfan2486 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:32 pm

What's the consensus on where in the class you need to rank at Fordham to get biglaw?

In a normal job market, and in the current awful market.

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A'nold
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby A'nold » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:32 pm

1Lpanic wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
1Lpanic wrote:Thanks everyone for the advice. I really hope my remaining two grades are higher than a B, but I'm not confident. I will keep you guys posted.

And no, I'm not a troll. I just preferred not to use my other TLS username which has more identifying information since I know my classmates use this site :/


I know you aren't a troll. I won't speculate about who you are because I don't want to know anyone else's grades, but please believe me that you will be fine. Congrats on your courage for looking. My hands are still shaking. You are going to be fine. One B is not bad. At least you looked, which is more than I can bring myself to do.

False alarm for me. None of my grades are up. If your other two grades were at least B+s, you will still be above median. I just calculated it out. You could also get two Bs and an A- and be above median. Take comfort that we have no grade inflation. Top 10% is only just above a 3.5.


I'm just desperately worried because I highly doubt I got both a B+ in Crim and Contracts or an A- in either. It really is likely I will be at median or below.

The thought of the 200k in loans is frightening if I am only looking at a career making 60k a year.


Thinking of a "career" making 60k is where most people go wrong on here. Dude, that is just a STARTING salary. You should be into six figures w/in five years and be doing something cool for a living. Think of it that way.

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thesealocust
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:39 pm

metsfan2486 wrote:What's the consensus on where in the class you need to rank at Fordham to get biglaw?

In a normal job market, and in the current awful market.


In the best year top 40% were pulling down biglaw, usually it seemed closer to top 30-33%. ITE who knows, any speculation is just naked speculation at this juncture.

Black-Blue
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby Black-Blue » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:44 pm

Whether you should drop out depends on your alternatives. If you can get a 65k job right after dropping out, then I think I might drop out if I were in your position with 210k in debt (which to me would be too high to be worth the gamble). If you can only get a 30k job, then the decision is much different, obviously.

If you talk to career services ppl, or upperclassmen, they might try to make you look like you're uncommitted to something in life, or that you'd have a high moral cost of uprooting. All of that is bs. People change professions and jobs all the time. Also, if it's worth someone to stay in, despite being bottom 10% (e.g.), it might not be the same for you.

I'd suggest that you do a cost-benefit analysis on this, and make your own decision. Also take into account whether you want to be a lawyer, or just want to think like a lawyer (which you've experienced already), or stay away from law entirely.

1Lpanic
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby 1Lpanic » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:54 pm

I don't think I could get a 65k job immediately after dropping out. I worked in a creative field before coming to law school. Sadly, the ~210k is around what it costs to pay sticker at Fordham for three years and live in NYC. I turned down a little money at schools like WUSTL to go here because I wanted to remain in NYC where I've made my home.

I have trouble doing a cost/benefit analysis because I am not sure how my job prospects will fare in the bottom 50%.

The debt is really my biggest concern and I did think about it a great deal before choosing Fordham, but people do make mistakes.

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A'nold
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby A'nold » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:11 pm

1Lpanic wrote:I don't think I could get a 65k job immediately after dropping out. I worked in a creative field before coming to law school. Sadly, the ~210k is around what it costs to pay sticker at Fordham for three years and live in NYC. I turned down a little money at schools like WUSTL to go here because I wanted to remain in NYC where I've made my home.

I have trouble doing a cost/benefit analysis because I am not sure how my job prospects will fare in the bottom 50%.

The debt is really my biggest concern and I did think about it a great deal before choosing Fordham, but people do make mistakes.


More than 50% of the class at Fordham get law jobs after graduation, what kind of law you would enjoy or be willing to work might help your decision. If you are slightly below median, you will get a law job given enough time, but if you are biglaw or bust you might reconsider your path.

lbg0125
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby lbg0125 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:10 pm

NYVA311 wrote:but I couldn't imagine living and working there otherwise, it's in the mountains.


lol you apparently just don't understand...

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby OperaSoprano » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:36 am

thesealocust wrote:
metsfan2486 wrote:What's the consensus on where in the class you need to rank at Fordham to get biglaw?

In a normal job market, and in the current awful market.


In the best year top 40% were pulling down biglaw, usually it seemed closer to top 30-33%. ITE who knows, any speculation is just naked speculation at this juncture.


43.7% for c/o 2008, but thesealocust is right. We only hear rumors.

OP, are you interested in PI at all? I really think that between IBR and our LRAP, it's a tremendously good deal, and PI employers care more about dedication than GPA. I'm friends with a 2L who's gotten to do some amazing things, and she had almost straight B-s her 1L year. If you want to do this, you still can.

Snooker, I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the Federal government repays the lender when the loan is forgiven, either 10 or 25 years out.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby OperaSoprano » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:45 am

awesomepossum wrote:
and I'm going to kill AP for the magic eight ball shtick



:oops:


You can atone by telling me your [deleted] Briggs type. I'm trying to complete the TLS MBTI database in the lounge.

1Lpanic
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby 1Lpanic » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:31 pm

public interest law might interest me, I'm really not sure at this juncture.

I do want to be able to live by myself someday (without roommates) and hopefully own a house. Is this even possible if I am making 60k with 200k+ student loan debt, or will I be living with roommates well into my 30s? Seriously.

I'm getting pretty terrified about what my life will be like if I graduate with $210,000 and can't get a decent job or get a career going.

1Lpanic
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby 1Lpanic » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:31 pm

Does anyone know anyone who graduated below median with 200kish in debt and what sort of job and salary they were able to find, and what it was like to pay back the loans with that position?

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby Lawl Shcool » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:35 pm

OP, google "Income Based Repayment"

Ya it might suck for awhile but you will not starve

1Lpanic
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby 1Lpanic » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:59 pm

I hope I won't. I can't imagine being able to afford rent, food, and loan payments even if they are 8% of my income if I have a low salary.

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A'nold
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby A'nold » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:05 pm

1Lpanic wrote:public interest law might interest me, I'm really not sure at this juncture.

I do want to be able to live by myself someday (without roommates) and hopefully own a house. Is this even possible if I am making 60k with 200k+ student loan debt, or will I be living with roommates well into my 30s? Seriously.

I'm getting pretty terrified about what my life will be like if I graduate with $210,000 and can't get a decent job or get a career going.


Dude, 60k is the starting salary in your scenario. You will not still be making that salary "in your 30's" unless you are in your 30's at the time of graduation........

1Lpanic
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby 1Lpanic » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:06 pm

I'll be in my late 20s :/

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby OperaSoprano » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:35 pm

1Lpanic wrote:I'll be in my late 20s :/


The debt probably means you will have to delay buying a house, unless you have substantial savings for a mortgage, but the same would be true of anyone borrowing sticker for a good school. However, given the cost of housing in and around our city, you couldn't do it anyway without a gigantic salary or some other source of wealth. However, you won't necessarily need roommates. If you make $4k/month after taxes, you will pay under $400/month toward your loans, no matter how much you owe. That leaves $3600 plus for your other expenses. If you want a studio in Manhattan, you will can hunt around for one that will come in at half that for rent and utilities. If you don't mind living up by the Columbians, or in Brooklyn or Astoria, you can shave off $200 or so. Assuming $1800 in rent and utilities, that leaves you over $400 a week for food, going out, or savings. And, as A'nold said, this is a starting salary. If you get married or live with your SO, you can save even more money on lodging. I think it's doable, which is good, because I'm probably going to make ~ $3k a month take home. I pay ~ $1350 in rent and utilities now, and that should be sustainable after I graduate. I do have a roommate, but I would go stir crazy if I lived alone.

awesomepossum
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby awesomepossum » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:37 pm

If you don't mind living up by the Columbians



Don't hate!

1Lpanic
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby 1Lpanic » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:02 pm

@OperaSoprano, are you also paying sticker?

I unfortunately also have 5k of ugrad debt left that I deferrred until graduation.

Bankhead
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby Bankhead » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:54 pm

A'nold wrote:
1Lpanic wrote:public interest law might interest me, I'm really not sure at this juncture.

I do want to be able to live by myself someday (without roommates) and hopefully own a house. Is this even possible if I am making 60k with 200k+ student loan debt, or will I be living with roommates well into my 30s? Seriously.

I'm getting pretty terrified about what my life will be like if I graduate with $210,000 and can't get a decent job or get a career going.


Dude, 60k is the starting salary in your scenario. You will not still be making that salary "in your 30's" unless you are in your 30's at the time of graduation........


Not sure where this guaranteed 60k salary is coming from. I have a friend who is top 10% at a T25, and while she has a job lined up, even she isn't even going to be making that after striking out at OCI. Many lawyers will be making 35k or unemployed/temp work after graduating median/below median.




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