Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

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Bankhead
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby Bankhead » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:38 pm

JCougar wrote:
A'nold wrote:Most people on here (see that I said most) are naive when it comes to the real world. For example, dropping out and "getting into advertising" is so horrific a prospect you really cannot imagine how much you will ultimately regret dropping out of Fordham. I speak from experience on this topic. Once you throw yourself out into the cold, hard working world and realize you cannot find anything but temp jobs and the prospect of "working your way up" is a 10 year plan of hell dealing with incompetent middle-management with the only prospect being sticking it out for only a couple more years so you can land that 35k a year dream job with another company where you work 60 hours a week doing the worst crap imaginable, you will dream of graduating from Fordham below median with 210k student loan debt that you can use IBR to help pay back.


I LOLed.

I think a lot of people on here don't realize how shitty other non-law jobs are. I love how people freak out at the horrible prospect of making $60K to start out a career with little to no work experience, as if your life is over. It's definitely not ideal while paying off the kind debt that law school brings, but it's manageable. 60K is a lot of money, and if you work in the corporate world, not only do you usually have to have at least 5 years of experience or a graduate degree of some sort to make that much, you have to put up with a bunch of complete idiots with emotional issues that couldn't cut it in consulting being in charge of you. And when I say "complete idiots," I really mean it. I've never met more incompetent, impractical, disorganized, and somewhat psychotic people in any other work environment than I have in three years of working in corporate offices of some very major corporations. Office Space isn't a comedy, it's a documentary, and a mild one at that. These people couldn't find their way out of a paper bag to save their lives, and yet somehow they get to dress in snazzy business attire and look important and hold on to the same job and continue to turn in mediocre results day after day, year after year. No one fires them because there's no one smarter or more desperate available to fill their position. All the smarter ones ended up going to law school or med school or got a PhD and are doing research or consulting -- and are going into a profession where producing real results actually matters and idiots are quickly weeded out.

Going the corporate route was the biggest mistake of my life, and I can't wait for fall. Good god. Do not drop out of Fordham because of one class.



And working your way up in the law field is so much better? I perosnally think it would be because I enjoy law and but OP doesn't seem like he cares about being a lawyer much.

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JCougar
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby JCougar » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:10 pm

Bankhead wrote:And working your way up in the law field is so much better? I perosnally think it would be because I enjoy law and but OP doesn't seem like he cares about being a lawyer much.


I can't tell you if law is better or not, since I haven't worked in it, but I do know that it's far more rewarding, and it gives you far more options and better opportunities to work for yourself, etc. Plus it gives you far more connections. And I think, in general, you end up working for smarter people.

I don't think a life of law is going to be a whole bunch of sunny justice and awesome managers. Almost all jobs force you to deal with office politics and irrational-selfish management. The only way to escape it is to start your own business or work for a small upstart, but either option is very financially risky. It seems far easier to go solo as a lawyer if you so desire, and if you don't, there's far more reward if you can successfully deal with the meat-grinder bureaucracy that is any large organization.

solidsnake
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby solidsnake » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:44 pm

OP, this is simple. If the costs of you not becoming a lawyer do not outweigh the costs of you not being able to repay your tuition-debt due to graduating below median at Fordham, then drop out. Otherwise, don't. If you have more subjective considerations you should bring them into play. We don't know what the hell motivates you to get up in the morning.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby Space_Cowboy » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:06 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
2807 wrote:Whoa.. Hold on.

I know nothing about law school and job prospects, but I know a lot about life.

Dont quit. Ever. At least, not for the reasons you are citing.

I am older than you and have lost a career, had tons of debt, no debt, tons of money, no money.... married, divorced... injured, healthy..... it goes on and on....

You will experience all of these things in life. Dont add to that list "I quit law school because I got B's" Good Grief...

You have already gone so far in college, the LSAT, the applications, the commitiment, and now the actual first semester of classes... You are so close! STAY. FIGHT BACK.

You can't fix normal.

It is normal to doubt, panic, be depressed and all of that.... You forget--> these feelings are now offsetting all of those manic feelings you had before about making it big in law. All of them serve a purpose, and in the end you find BALANCE.

Screw the debt issue. Get the education AT ALL COSTS. You will always have debt....deal with it.

Make sure you are not using debt as an excuse for your fear. Is debt, without the potential of a law degree, better? NO.

Just relax. Study better, or study the same and get B's, and move on in life. Somehow I just know you will find a job, a spouse, a home, and all of this will seem very silly. You just lack the perspective right now.

FIGHT BACK and you will learn a lot more than goofy legal theory as you graduate law school and thrive thrive thrive.

It is the fight that will define you. Not the grade.

Trust me.

I come to you from the future.


I vote this as the most obnoxious and idiotic post on TLS.


Agreed. This is what leads people to go all in at TTT schools and wonder what to do when they graduate $200k in debt without any real job options.


Maybe it was Tony Robbins' stupid cousin.....

OG Loc
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby OG Loc » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:09 pm

You'd be able to knock 20k off your debt if you moved to the Bronx or NJ. Borrowing money to pay Manhattan rent is craziness. I'm assuming you must be, to manage running up that much debt.

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JCougar
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby JCougar » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:44 pm

OG Loc wrote:You'd be able to knock 20k off your debt if you moved to the Bronx or NJ. Borrowing money to pay Manhattan rent is craziness. I'm assuming you must be, to manage running up that much debt.


Right. That much debt for a non-T14 school is irresponsible. Either go somewhere where you get some sort of scholarship or go somewhere where the COL/tuition isn't so high.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:12 pm

JCougar wrote:
OG Loc wrote:You'd be able to knock 20k off your debt if you moved to the Bronx or NJ. Borrowing money to pay Manhattan rent is craziness. I'm assuming you must be, to manage running up that much debt.


Right. That much debt for a non-T14 school is irresponsible. Either go somewhere where you get some sort of scholarship or go somewhere where the COL/tuition isn't so high.


1) Living in NJ or the Bronx are certainly options for saving money, though transportation costs need to be factored in, as do ease of commute and commuting times. I made the decision to live six blocks from school, with a roommate, and I still pay less than I would in the dorms. I'm not doing this at rock bottom cost, but the convenience has seriously saved my butt many a time. Arrow, a very successful Berkeley transfer student, reflected on a positive correlation between proximity to one's school and 1L GPA. I wouldn't be surprised if this holds true here, though I'd have to strong arm everyone into telling me their grades to find out.

2) The debt level an individual is comfortable with will vary. For someone counting entirely on biglaw, it would be foolish to take a gamble outside the very, very top schools at any price. I maintain that Fordham is 100% worth the price I am paying. I regret many things in my life, but not this decision. I will confess that I am unusual, however. I view the legal education as an end in itself, in addition to the necessary prerequisite for finding legal employment.

Black-Blue
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby Black-Blue » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:17 pm

reflected on a positive correlation between proximity to one's school and 1L GPA.

Crap! I'm screwed then. :evil:

gollymolly
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby gollymolly » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:20 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
JCougar wrote:
2) The debt level an individual is comfortable with will vary. For someone counting entirely on biglaw, it would be foolish to take a gamble outside the very, very top schools at any price. I maintain that Fordham is 100% worth the price I am paying. I regret many things in my life, but not this decision. I will confess that I am unusual, however. I view the legal education as an end in itself, in addition to the necessary prerequisite for finding legal employment.


To be fair, my understanding is that you don't intend to personally pay back most of your debt (correct me if I'm wrong). So Fordham may be 100% worth the price you are paying, but the price you are actually paying is far from sticker.

solidsnake
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby solidsnake » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

Right, she intends taxpayers to pay for her debt.

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dresden doll
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby dresden doll » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:41 pm

betasteve wrote:
gollymolly wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
JCougar wrote:
2) The debt level an individual is comfortable with will vary. For someone counting entirely on biglaw, it would be foolish to take a gamble outside the very, very top schools at any price. I maintain that Fordham is 100% worth the price I am paying. I regret many things in my life, but not this decision. I will confess that I am unusual, however. I view the legal education as an end in itself, in addition to the necessary prerequisite for finding legal employment.


To be fair, my understanding is that you don't intend to personally pay back most of your debt (correct me if I'm wrong). So Fordham may be 100% worth the price you are paying, but the price you are actually paying is far from sticker.

Please elaborate on the relevance of making this distinction. It appears to me she did specifically state that it was the price SHE was paying, not necessarily sticker. Otherwise, I will consider this a vague attempt at outing a poster and will also consider the question covertly cuntstick-ish and may then issue a temp ban. I hope you are persuasive.


That appears a little harsh. I don't believe OS has made the mechanics of how she intends to pay for her school a secret.

Snooker
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby Snooker » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:47 pm

Can someone explain to me how this income based repayment thing works? I am just curious. My debt isn't going to be nearly as high as OS, so there's no way I could be using it.

Supposing OS takes 200k in loans. Is she automatically entitled to IBR, even if it means the loans will definitely be forgiven? When the loan is forgiven, who forgives it - taxpayers or is the bank's debt simply going to vanish?

solidsnake
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby solidsnake » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:52 pm

betasteve wrote:
solidsnake wrote:Right, she intends taxpayers to pay for her debt.

As does anyone that accepts a grant. By the same force of logic, anyone with a scholarship is just going to school intending on someone else to pay their debt.


She has made it public. It's one of the more respectable qualities about her.

And no, genius, a scholarship in which "someone else" pays one's debt (i.e., another admittee voluntarily and willingly paying full tuition -- public schools aside) is not the same thing as flinging one's debt onto John Q. Taxpayer.
Last edited by solidsnake on Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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vamedic03
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby vamedic03 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:54 pm

betasteve wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
That appears a little harsh. I don't believe OS has made the mechanics of how she intends to pay for her school a secret.

I read a fair amount of threads around here, and I have no idea how she intends to do it. If there is documented record of this, then if someone will point me to it, I'll retract re: the vague attempt at outing. However, my criticism of the tone of the post still holds true - though I would not be inclined to issue a ban just for being a cuntstick.


I mean really?! that should be ban worthy right there

gollymolly
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby gollymolly » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:55 pm

My post wasn't an attempt to "out" OS at all, she's pretty open about her plans for repayment. I can look for some threads.

It also wasn't an attempt to be cuntish. My point was just that one student paying sticker at Fordham who is not planning on using IBR/LRAP/all those others acronyms to pay for school is in a pretty different situation from someone who is planning on using those resources.

Example: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=101974&p=2364619&hilit=+loans#p2364619
Last edited by gollymolly on Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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letsrun
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby letsrun » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:05 pm

BetaSteve you need to chill out. You act like a policeman on a power trip. OS has repeatedly made public her postgrad plans.

And I find the word cunt offensive so please don't use it again.

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sawwaverunner
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby sawwaverunner » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:07 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
2807 wrote:Whoa.. Hold on.

I know nothing about law school and job prospects, but I know a lot about life.
doubt, panic, be depressed and all of that.... You forget-->the debt issue. You will always have debt....deal with it. [/u][/b]

Make sure you are using debt as an excuse for your fear. Is debt better? NO.

Just Study better or study and move on in life. Somehow I just know you will lack the perspective right now.

FIGHT BACK and you will learn goofy legal theory as you graduate law school.

It define you. the grade.

Trust me.

I come to you from the future.


I vote this as the most obnoxious and idiotic post on TLS.


Agreed. This is what leads people to go all in at TTT schools and wonder what to do when they graduate $200k in debt without any real job options.


Post corrected to represent the general TLS consensus on huge debt....

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letsrun
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby letsrun » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:13 pm

Wait, I thought going into 200k of debt for a 4th tier school was fine as long as it was your lifelong PASSION?

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2807
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby 2807 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:17 pm

Hey, you edited my post and credited it to me? That seems wrong.

booyaskeedaddy
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby booyaskeedaddy » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:18 pm

Yah seriously, Betasteve you sound like a giant douche

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letsrun
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby letsrun » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:19 pm

Betasteve you are such a joker. Seriously get off your high horse. I mean I know I'm not at your level since I'm not a mod or anything

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sawwaverunner
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby sawwaverunner » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:23 pm

2807 wrote:Hey, you edited my post and credited it to me? That seems wrong.


I didn't credit it to you....i made sure it said that it was changed....just kidding around buddy. It's a glitch that TLS should actually fix, but for the time being it can be fun. Everyone can still see your original post.

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thesealocust
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:25 pm

n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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2807
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby 2807 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:27 pm

sawwaverunner wrote:
2807 wrote:Hey, you edited my post and credited it to me? That seems wrong.


I didn't credit it to you....i made sure it said that it was changed....just kidding around buddy. It's a glitch that TLS should actually fix, but for the time being it can be fun. Everyone can still see your original post.


Did it make me look good or bad? HA! I cant even tell.... hahahaha

Oh, who cares. Im just along for the ride and find all of this entertaining and helpful.

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20160810
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Re: Fordham Law 1L - Below 50% - Drop out?

Postby 20160810 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:27 pm

This thread is kind of silly. I think that dropping out of LS, if law is the career you really want, because you got a B is borderline ridiculous. Half of all law students graduated below median. Not everyone makes an enormous amount of money right off the bat. In fact, most don't. But that shouldn't be your reason for practicing law anyhow. TLS is very focused on what jobs are available IMMEDIATELY after graduation. Most lawyers change firms a number of times. There's really no telling what you'll be doing in 10-15 years. You should ask yourself whether this career is worth the debt, not whether you'll be getting X or Y job the year after law school. It seems quite remote that getting a B during your 1L year is going to have an overwhelming effect on your long-term career.




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