How bad is an 81?

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NayBoer
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby NayBoer » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:31 pm

rayiner wrote:Remember that these numeric scales are just proxies for letter grades. It's not like the person with an 81 missed on average only 4 less more than the person with an 85. The scale is very compressed, with most people getting grades +/- 3 from the mean.

So the real question is whether there is really a measurable difference between bottom 20% and median exams. And I really think there is, in most classes, and especially over four classes averaged together.
But why make the vast majority of the curve fall across 10-12 points on a 100-point scale? Is that so the bottom quintile still gets to claim a B- to employers?

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CE2JD
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby CE2JD » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:32 pm

kimber1028 wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
thesealocust wrote:At Ohio State, an 81 is a B- average. 30% get As and 60% get Bs of some kind, which means your average probably puts you somewhere in the bottom third. Top 25% is a 92.2. If the average is 85, that means bottom 25% is probsbly something like 77.5, which would put you probably right at bottom 33%ish.

If you go to Colorado, your GPA would still be a b-, but their median is supposed to be 84. Either way you'd be looking at bottom 1/3-ish.

If you go to wake forest... they average to 73, so you're probably not at wake forest. If you were you'd be above median :P

Those are the only 3 T1 schools other than WUSTL that use numbers. I'd say best case scenario is bottom 40%, worst case scenario is bottom 20%.


Actually, I misread wake forest's info when researching the first time. Also, I looked at OPs post history. OP goes to Wake Forest :P

Wake Forest averages to an 85, and a 73 is required for good standing.

Correct wake forest info:

Top 10%: 89.9

Top 25%: 87.5

Top 50%: 85.2

Top 75%: 82.8

That means OP is in the bottom 20% neighborhood, tough break.


Go to:

http://www.nalplawschoolsonline.org/



This is based on the graduating class, though. I don't know about WF specifically, but at my school, they relax the curve quite a bit 2L and 3L year. That results in the grade distribution (per the figures available to students here) being quite different for 1L and 3L students (1L median is a 2.9 and NALP graduating median is a 3.3). OP should probably check with the school for grade distribution info before he just resigns himself to being in the bottom 15-20%.


True. I forgot about this wrinkle.

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rayiner
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby rayiner » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:34 pm

NayBoer wrote:
rayiner wrote:Remember that these numeric scales are just proxies for letter grades. It's not like the person with an 81 missed on average only 4 less more than the person with an 85. The scale is very compressed, with most people getting grades +/- 3 from the mean.

So the real question is whether there is really a measurable difference between bottom 20% and median exams. And I really think there is, in most classes, and especially over four classes averaged together.
But why make the vast majority of the curve fall across 10-12 points on a 100-point scale? Is that so the bottom quintile still gets to claim a B- to employers?


Why is a 3.0 average near the bottom of the class at most top UGs? Why does NU not require any grade lower than a B-? Combination of employment prospects (gotta keep up with other schools) and protecting law students' incredibly fragile egos.

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Ragged
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby Ragged » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:39 pm

rayiner wrote:Why is a 3.0 average near the bottom of the class at most top UGs? Why does NU not require any grade lower than a B-? ..... and protecting law students' incredibly fragile egos.


lol :lol:

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Mulliganstew
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby Mulliganstew » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:44 pm

Hurricane28 wrote:
dans wrote:I'm at your school, an 81 is like bottom 15-20%.


How do you know what school I go to?


How are we supposed to know how good an 81 is without knowing your curve? :roll:

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thesealocust
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:45 pm

Mulliganstew wrote:
Hurricane28 wrote:
dans wrote:I'm at your school, an 81 is like bottom 15-20%.


How do you know what school I go to?


How are we supposed to know how good an 81 is without knowing your curve? :roll:


We know what his curve is, we just had to be detectives.

For the record, the NALP law school list is often incomplete, so I actually used this nifty source: http://www.bcgsearch.com/pdf/BCG_Law_Sc ... e_2009.pdf

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orangeswarm
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby orangeswarm » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:48 pm

CE2JD wrote:
Go to:

http://www.nalplawschoolsonline.org/

Click on the "Quick Search" icon

Type in "wake forest"

Click on the "Wake Forest University School of Law" link that pops up below

Scroll down until you see this:

Image


Those are for the graduating class - probably much higher than the 1L class.

EDIT: Nevermind, someone beat me to it.

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lishi
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby lishi » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:51 pm

FuturehoyaLawya wrote:
lishi wrote:
Hurricane28 wrote:guess i can say see ya to landing a job in the private sector


I know TLS is all top 10% or bust, but I know people that did really poorly their first semester, but continued to improve over the rest of the semesters and got good jobs (and I don't go to a T14). Just accept the grades, go to your professors to see where you can improve, and work a little harder. Of course we all put in a big effort, but there are always ways we can improve ourselves. Just don't give up and stay motivated!!


don't you attend wake forest as well? and when you say really poorly do you mean below median?


Yes I go to Wake Forest, and yes I mean below the median.

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orangeswarm
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby orangeswarm » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:58 pm

lishi wrote:
FuturehoyaLawya wrote:
lishi wrote:
Hurricane28 wrote:guess i can say see ya to landing a job in the private sector


I know TLS is all top 10% or bust, but I know people that did really poorly their first semester, but continued to improve over the rest of the semesters and got good jobs (and I don't go to a T14). Just accept the grades, go to your professors to see where you can improve, and work a little harder. Of course we all put in a big effort, but there are always ways we can improve ourselves. Just don't give up and stay motivated!!


don't you attend wake forest as well? and when you say really poorly do you mean below median?


Yes I go to Wake Forest, and yes I mean below the median.


I would like to chime in and say I saw a lot of the same. I know a few people that improved their GPA .4 the second semester (we are graded on a 4.3 scale - so a .4 increase is very significant), sustained the improvement throughout the remainder of law school, and ultimately ended up with some solid employment prospects. Don't give up, just use this semester as motivation to work harder and improve. The worst thing you could do is beat yourself up to a point where you lose motivation next semester. I saw that happen to people as well ....... let's just say it's not pretty.

nickwar
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby nickwar » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:54 pm

Hurricane28 wrote:So far I have gotten all of my grades except for civ pro. My average right now is an 81. About what percentage rank am I looking at if the average is an 85?


If your school's median is 85 and you have an 81, you're probably looking at bottom 40%, depending on the outlay. Unless I'm missing something?

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mallard
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby mallard » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:56 pm

nickwar wrote:
Hurricane28 wrote:So far I have gotten all of my grades except for civ pro. My average right now is an 81. About what percentage rank am I looking at if the average is an 85?


If your school's median is 85 and you have an 81, you're probably looking at bottom 40%, depending on the outlay. Unless I'm missing something?


You are...

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NayBoer
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby NayBoer » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:12 pm

rayiner wrote:
NayBoer wrote:
rayiner wrote:Remember that these numeric scales are just proxies for letter grades. It's not like the person with an 81 missed on average only 4 less more than the person with an 85. The scale is very compressed, with most people getting grades +/- 3 from the mean.

So the real question is whether there is really a measurable difference between bottom 20% and median exams. And I really think there is, in most classes, and especially over four classes averaged together.
But why make the vast majority of the curve fall across 10-12 points on a 100-point scale? Is that so the bottom quintile still gets to claim a B- to employers?


Why is a 3.0 average near the bottom of the class at most top UGs? Why does NU not require any grade lower than a B-? Combination of employment prospects (gotta keep up with other schools) and protecting law students' incredibly fragile egos.
Like a burger joint where the drinks only come medium, large, and extra large. It's not really medium if it's the smallest option.

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rayiner
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby rayiner » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:17 pm

NayBoer wrote:
rayiner wrote:Why is a 3.0 average near the bottom of the class at most top UGs? Why does NU not require any grade lower than a B-? Combination of employment prospects (gotta keep up with other schools) and protecting law students' incredibly fragile egos.
Like a burger joint where the drinks only come medium, large, and extra large. It's not really medium if it's the smallest option.


Everybody is above average!

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A'nold
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby A'nold » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:24 pm

orangeswarm wrote:
FuturehoyaLawya wrote:
Hurricane28 wrote:guess i can say see ya to landing a job in the private sector


I know TLS is all top 10% or bust, but I know people that did really poorly their first semester, but continued to improve over the rest of the semesters and got good jobs (and I don't go to a T14). Just accept the grades, go to your professors to see where you can improve, and work a little harder. Of course we all put in a big effort, but there are always ways we can improve ourselves. Just don't give up and stay motivated!!


don't you attend wake forest as well? and when you say really poorly do you mean below median?


I would like to chime in and say I saw a lot of the same. I know a few people that improved their GPA .4 the second semester (we are graded on a 4.3 scale - so a .4 increase is very significant), sustained the improvement throughout the remainder of law school, and ultimately ended up with some solid employment prospects. Don't give up, just use this semester as motivation to work harder and improve. The worst thing you could do is beat yourself up to a point where you lose motivation next semester. I saw that happen to people as well ....... let's just say it's not pretty.[/quote]

I know this might not be very honorable but I know myself and can very easily see this happen to me if I get crap grades after all I did last semester. The motivation would pretty much go right out the window, at least grade wise. I'd probably turn my efforts to networking and getting a part-time law job while in school.

Edit: can't get this to quote correctly.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: How bad is an 81?

Postby Space_Cowboy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:55 pm

rayiner wrote:
NayBoer wrote:
rayiner wrote:Why is a 3.0 average near the bottom of the class at most top UGs? Why does NU not require any grade lower than a B-? Combination of employment prospects (gotta keep up with other schools) and protecting law students' incredibly fragile egos.
Like a burger joint where the drinks only come medium, large, and extra large. It's not really medium if it's the smallest option.


Everybody is above average!


YAY, self-esteem movement!




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