But why make the vast majority of the curve fall across 10-12 points on a 100-point scale? Is that so the bottom quintile still gets to claim a B- to employers?rayiner wrote:Remember that these numeric scales are just proxies for letter grades. It's not like the person with an 81 missed on average only 4 less more than the person with an 85. The scale is very compressed, with most people getting grades +/- 3 from the mean.
So the real question is whether there is really a measurable difference between bottom 20% and median exams. And I really think there is, in most classes, and especially over four classes averaged together.
How bad is an 81? Forum
- NayBoer
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Re: How bad is an 81?
- CE2JD
- Posts: 914
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Re: How bad is an 81?
True. I forgot about this wrinkle.kimber1028 wrote:This is based on the graduating class, though. I don't know about WF specifically, but at my school, they relax the curve quite a bit 2L and 3L year. That results in the grade distribution (per the figures available to students here) being quite different for 1L and 3L students (1L median is a 2.9 and NALP graduating median is a 3.3). OP should probably check with the school for grade distribution info before he just resigns himself to being in the bottom 15-20%.CE2JD wrote:Go to:thesealocust wrote:Actually, I misread wake forest's info when researching the first time. Also, I looked at OPs post history. OP goes to Wake Forestthesealocust wrote:At Ohio State, an 81 is a B- average. 30% get As and 60% get Bs of some kind, which means your average probably puts you somewhere in the bottom third. Top 25% is a 92.2. If the average is 85, that means bottom 25% is probsbly something like 77.5, which would put you probably right at bottom 33%ish.
If you go to Colorado, your GPA would still be a b-, but their median is supposed to be 84. Either way you'd be looking at bottom 1/3-ish.
If you go to wake forest... they average to 73, so you're probably not at wake forest. If you were you'd be above median
Those are the only 3 T1 schools other than WUSTL that use numbers. I'd say best case scenario is bottom 40%, worst case scenario is bottom 20%.
Wake Forest averages to an 85, and a 73 is required for good standing.
Correct wake forest info:
Top 10%: 89.9
Top 25%: 87.5
Top 50%: 85.2
Top 75%: 82.8
That means OP is in the bottom 20% neighborhood, tough break.
http://www.nalplawschoolsonline.org/
- rayiner
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Re: How bad is an 81?
Why is a 3.0 average near the bottom of the class at most top UGs? Why does NU not require any grade lower than a B-? Combination of employment prospects (gotta keep up with other schools) and protecting law students' incredibly fragile egos.NayBoer wrote:But why make the vast majority of the curve fall across 10-12 points on a 100-point scale? Is that so the bottom quintile still gets to claim a B- to employers?rayiner wrote:Remember that these numeric scales are just proxies for letter grades. It's not like the person with an 81 missed on average only 4 less more than the person with an 85. The scale is very compressed, with most people getting grades +/- 3 from the mean.
So the real question is whether there is really a measurable difference between bottom 20% and median exams. And I really think there is, in most classes, and especially over four classes averaged together.
- Ragged
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Re: How bad is an 81?
lolrayiner wrote: Why is a 3.0 average near the bottom of the class at most top UGs? Why does NU not require any grade lower than a B-? ..... and protecting law students' incredibly fragile egos.
- Mulliganstew
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Re: How bad is an 81?
How are we supposed to know how good an 81 is without knowing your curve?Hurricane28 wrote:How do you know what school I go to?dans wrote:I'm at your school, an 81 is like bottom 15-20%.
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- thesealocust
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Re: How bad is an 81?
We know what his curve is, we just had to be detectives.Mulliganstew wrote:How are we supposed to know how good an 81 is without knowing your curve?Hurricane28 wrote:How do you know what school I go to?dans wrote:I'm at your school, an 81 is like bottom 15-20%.
For the record, the NALP law school list is often incomplete, so I actually used this nifty source: http://www.bcgsearch.com/pdf/BCG_Law_Sc ... e_2009.pdf
- orangeswarm
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Re: How bad is an 81?
Those are for the graduating class - probably much higher than the 1L class.CE2JD wrote:
Go to:
http://www.nalplawschoolsonline.org/
Click on the "Quick Search" icon
Type in "wake forest"
Click on the "Wake Forest University School of Law" link that pops up below
Scroll down until you see this:
EDIT: Nevermind, someone beat me to it.
- lishi
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Re: How bad is an 81?
Yes I go to Wake Forest, and yes I mean below the median.FuturehoyaLawya wrote:don't you attend wake forest as well? and when you say really poorly do you mean below median?lishi wrote:I know TLS is all top 10% or bust, but I know people that did really poorly their first semester, but continued to improve over the rest of the semesters and got good jobs (and I don't go to a T14). Just accept the grades, go to your professors to see where you can improve, and work a little harder. Of course we all put in a big effort, but there are always ways we can improve ourselves. Just don't give up and stay motivated!!Hurricane28 wrote:guess i can say see ya to landing a job in the private sector
- orangeswarm
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Re: How bad is an 81?
I would like to chime in and say I saw a lot of the same. I know a few people that improved their GPA .4 the second semester (we are graded on a 4.3 scale - so a .4 increase is very significant), sustained the improvement throughout the remainder of law school, and ultimately ended up with some solid employment prospects. Don't give up, just use this semester as motivation to work harder and improve. The worst thing you could do is beat yourself up to a point where you lose motivation next semester. I saw that happen to people as well ....... let's just say it's not pretty.lishi wrote:Yes I go to Wake Forest, and yes I mean below the median.FuturehoyaLawya wrote:don't you attend wake forest as well? and when you say really poorly do you mean below median?lishi wrote:I know TLS is all top 10% or bust, but I know people that did really poorly their first semester, but continued to improve over the rest of the semesters and got good jobs (and I don't go to a T14). Just accept the grades, go to your professors to see where you can improve, and work a little harder. Of course we all put in a big effort, but there are always ways we can improve ourselves. Just don't give up and stay motivated!!Hurricane28 wrote:guess i can say see ya to landing a job in the private sector
-
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Re: How bad is an 81?
If your school's median is 85 and you have an 81, you're probably looking at bottom 40%, depending on the outlay. Unless I'm missing something?Hurricane28 wrote:So far I have gotten all of my grades except for civ pro. My average right now is an 81. About what percentage rank am I looking at if the average is an 85?
- mallard
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Re: How bad is an 81?
You are...nickwar wrote:If your school's median is 85 and you have an 81, you're probably looking at bottom 40%, depending on the outlay. Unless I'm missing something?Hurricane28 wrote:So far I have gotten all of my grades except for civ pro. My average right now is an 81. About what percentage rank am I looking at if the average is an 85?
- NayBoer
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Re: How bad is an 81?
Like a burger joint where the drinks only come medium, large, and extra large. It's not really medium if it's the smallest option.rayiner wrote:Why is a 3.0 average near the bottom of the class at most top UGs? Why does NU not require any grade lower than a B-? Combination of employment prospects (gotta keep up with other schools) and protecting law students' incredibly fragile egos.NayBoer wrote:But why make the vast majority of the curve fall across 10-12 points on a 100-point scale? Is that so the bottom quintile still gets to claim a B- to employers?rayiner wrote:Remember that these numeric scales are just proxies for letter grades. It's not like the person with an 81 missed on average only 4 less more than the person with an 85. The scale is very compressed, with most people getting grades +/- 3 from the mean.
So the real question is whether there is really a measurable difference between bottom 20% and median exams. And I really think there is, in most classes, and especially over four classes averaged together.
- rayiner
- Posts: 6145
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am
Re: How bad is an 81?
Everybody is above average!NayBoer wrote:Like a burger joint where the drinks only come medium, large, and extra large. It's not really medium if it's the smallest option.rayiner wrote: Why is a 3.0 average near the bottom of the class at most top UGs? Why does NU not require any grade lower than a B-? Combination of employment prospects (gotta keep up with other schools) and protecting law students' incredibly fragile egos.
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- A'nold
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Re: How bad is an 81?
I would like to chime in and say I saw a lot of the same. I know a few people that improved their GPA .4 the second semester (we are graded on a 4.3 scale - so a .4 increase is very significant), sustained the improvement throughout the remainder of law school, and ultimately ended up with some solid employment prospects. Don't give up, just use this semester as motivation to work harder and improve. The worst thing you could do is beat yourself up to a point where you lose motivation next semester. I saw that happen to people as well ....... let's just say it's not pretty.[/quote]orangeswarm wrote:don't you attend wake forest as well? and when you say really poorly do you mean below median?FuturehoyaLawya wrote:I know TLS is all top 10% or bust, but I know people that did really poorly their first semester, but continued to improve over the rest of the semesters and got good jobs (and I don't go to a T14). Just accept the grades, go to your professors to see where you can improve, and work a little harder. Of course we all put in a big effort, but there are always ways we can improve ourselves. Just don't give up and stay motivated!!Hurricane28 wrote:guess i can say see ya to landing a job in the private sector
I know this might not be very honorable but I know myself and can very easily see this happen to me if I get crap grades after all I did last semester. The motivation would pretty much go right out the window, at least grade wise. I'd probably turn my efforts to networking and getting a part-time law job while in school.
Edit: can't get this to quote correctly.
- Space_Cowboy
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Re: How bad is an 81?
YAY, self-esteem movement!rayiner wrote:Everybody is above average!NayBoer wrote:Like a burger joint where the drinks only come medium, large, and extra large. It's not really medium if it's the smallest option.rayiner wrote: Why is a 3.0 average near the bottom of the class at most top UGs? Why does NU not require any grade lower than a B-? Combination of employment prospects (gotta keep up with other schools) and protecting law students' incredibly fragile egos.
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