Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

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Snooker
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Snooker » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:57 am

betasteve wrote:
MadameX wrote:The T20 rule seems perplexing to me. Wouldn't most people on this forum agree there is a noticeable difference between MN/BU/Emory/WashU and Texas/Vanderbilt/UCLA/USC, enough so to warrant a distinct category?

I don't think there is much of a difference. They are all regional/super-regional. The latter may afford some better clerkship prospects, but not significantly so to warrant a distinct category.


Looking at Avvo, UT Austin places more people outside Texas than Berkley places out of California, but they're a T10 school. Not all T14 schools really look all that national to me. Many of them have alumni clustered up in a handful of states.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:00 am

Snooker wrote:Looking at Avvo, UT Austin places more people outside Texas than Berkley places out of California, but they're a T10 school. Not all T14 schools really look all that national to me. Many of them have alumni clustered up in a handful of states.

To put this in perspective though, I'm at a T10 school and I know of at least two professors here who are Berkeley Law grads. There are no UT Law grads on the faculty that I know of. So there is still something to the Berkeley degree.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Kohinoor » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:08 am

Snooker wrote:
betasteve wrote:
MadameX wrote:The T20 rule seems perplexing to me. Wouldn't most people on this forum agree there is a noticeable difference between MN/BU/Emory/WashU and Texas/Vanderbilt/UCLA/USC, enough so to warrant a distinct category?

I don't think there is much of a difference. They are all regional/super-regional. The latter may afford some better clerkship prospects, but not significantly so to warrant a distinct category.


Looking at Avvo, UT Austin places more people outside Texas than Berkley places out of California, but they're a T10 school. Not all T14 schools really look all that national to me. Many of them have alumni clustered up in a handful of states.

The question is, are those people in Cali because they couldn't get out? That's the difference between a Berkeley and a whatever the shittiest school in Cali is.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:14 am

I realize that checking for signs of grade posting every half-hour doesn't actually make the grades post any faster, especially when I'm doing it at 1AM, but that doesn't stop me from doing it.

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thesealocust
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:15 am

edit: n/m
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TTT-LS
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby TTT-LS » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:25 am

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postitnotes
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby postitnotes » Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:24 am

Still waiting for 2 grades...

Snooker
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Snooker » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:42 am

vanwinkle wrote:
Snooker wrote:Looking at Avvo, UT Austin places more people outside Texas than Berkley places out of California, but they're a T10 school. Not all T14 schools really look all that national to me. Many of them have alumni clustered up in a handful of states.

To put this in perspective though, I'm at a T10 school and I know of at least two professors here who are Berkeley Law grads. There are no UT Law grads on the faculty that I know of. So there is still something to the Berkeley degree.


UT grads tend not to shoot straight for the ivory tower, they get involved in more real-world careers. There are more members of Congress that graduated from UT Law, the highest earning individual attorney graduated from UT law, and the highest per profit law firm is headed by a UT law grad (not to mention, there's way more super lawyers). Most law academics these days are the type of people that pontificate about highly theoretical ideas that have no connection to reality, but that's not the kind of person that goes to UT.

Snooker
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Snooker » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:52 am

Kohinoor wrote:
Snooker wrote:
betasteve wrote:
MadameX wrote:The T20 rule seems perplexing to me. Wouldn't most people on this forum agree there is a noticeable difference between MN/BU/Emory/WashU and Texas/Vanderbilt/UCLA/USC, enough so to warrant a distinct category?

I don't think there is much of a difference. They are all regional/super-regional. The latter may afford some better clerkship prospects, but not significantly so to warrant a distinct category.


Looking at Avvo, UT Austin places more people outside Texas than Berkley places out of California, but they're a T10 school. Not all T14 schools really look all that national to me. Many of them have alumni clustered up in a handful of states.

The question is, are those people in Cali because they couldn't get out? That's the difference between a Berkeley and a whatever the shittiest school in Cali is.


Leiter found that Texas has a top placement rate into ultra-elite NY firms like Cravath. I haven't read the stats in a while, but I remember it was actually in the top 10. Unless it were some ultra-elite opportunity, I probably wouldn't be gunning to join a NYC firm where they treat you like shit, but pay you the same in the place where cost of living is triple of what Texas is. On the overall "most national law school" rankings, using elite firm placement as a methodology, Leiter found that Texas is more national than Berkeley. (Texas grads are more likely to place into elite firms than Berkeley grads)

Berkeley still places much more into academia, but that is just one factor.

Snooker
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Snooker » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:53 am

TTT-LS wrote:
Snooker wrote:
Looking at Avvo, UT Austin places more people outside Texas than Berkley places out of California, but they're a T10 school. Not all T14 schools really look all that national to me. Many of them have alumni clustered up in a handful of states.

UT has a huge student body. Absolute # outplacement =/= per capita outplacement.


Leiter finds the per capita placement for UT students into elite firms is still higher than Berkeley's.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:02 pm

Snooker wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Snooker wrote:Looking at Avvo, UT Austin places more people outside Texas than Berkley places out of California, but they're a T10 school. Not all T14 schools really look all that national to me. Many of them have alumni clustered up in a handful of states.

To put this in perspective though, I'm at a T10 school and I know of at least two professors here who are Berkeley Law grads. There are no UT Law grads on the faculty that I know of. So there is still something to the Berkeley degree.


UT grads tend not to shoot straight for the ivory tower, they get involved in more real-world careers. There are more members of Congress that graduated from UT Law, the highest earning individual attorney graduated from UT law, and the highest per profit law firm is headed by a UT law grad (not to mention, there's way more super lawyers). Most law academics these days are the type of people that pontificate about highly theoretical ideas that have no connection to reality, but that's not the kind of person that goes to UT.

You reallllllly do not want to use these facts to make the argument that UT > Boalt in "real-world careers." You will be embarrassed.

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chadwick218
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby chadwick218 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:35 pm

Snooker wrote:Leiter finds the per capita placement for UT students into elite firms is still higher than Berkeley's.


I am with you on this than perhaps many other posters, but I think that self-selection accounts for a great deal of this. Boalt has somewhat less of a "big law or bust" mindset than many of their peer schools.

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TTT-LS
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby TTT-LS » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:44 pm

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Displeased
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Displeased » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:53 pm

I have a question about how employers perceive grades.

Lets say I got an A in Crim, a B in Civ Pro, and a B in Torts, on a 3.0 curve. Would I be looked at as better or worse than a person who got a B+ in every single class? In other words, do employers put any emphasis on individual grades, or do they just look at GPA? Would a district attorney's office care more about my Crim grade than my Civ Pro grade (common sense says yes, but still...)? Is it possible that my A could be seen as a fluke?

I realize that all employers are different, and nobody really knows, but I'm curious to see everybody's opinion on this.

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thesealocust
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:18 pm

edit: n/m
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imchuckbass58
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:22 pm

Displeased wrote:I have a question about how employers perceive grades.

Lets say I got an A in Crim, a B in Civ Pro, and a B in Torts, on a 3.0 curve. Would I be looked at as better or worse than a person who got a B+ in every single class? In other words, do employers put any emphasis on individual grades, or do they just look at GPA? Would a district attorney's office care more about my Crim grade than my Civ Pro grade (common sense says yes, but still...)? Is it possible that my A could be seen as a fluke?

I realize that all employers are different, and nobody really knows, but I'm curious to see everybody's opinion on this.


So I have no idea what the answer to this question (I suspect GPA is all that matters), but I think there's an argument to be made that the former is more impressive.

Depending on the curve, straight B+s basically means you did slightly better than average in every class. Two Bs and an A mean you did slightly worse than average in two classes, and incredibly well (top 5%, probably) in one.

I guess my point is the jump from B to B+ is numerically the same as the jump from B+ to A- (i.e., +.33), but much harder generally speaking, since so few A-range grades are typically given out.

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apper123
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby apper123 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:23 pm

Pro-tip: when drinking with a bunch of law students on the first weekend, don't get involved in grade conversations.

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superserial
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby superserial » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:11 pm

inside info says I'm getting a grade Monday. did not think I'd get this nervous.

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TTT-LS
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby TTT-LS » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:18 pm

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steve_nash
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby steve_nash » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:32 pm

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Last edited by steve_nash on Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:04 pm

TTT-LS wrote:
apper123 wrote:Pro-tip: when drinking with a bunch of law students on the first weekend, don't get involved in grade conversations.

Told ya so

Is this a serious pro-tip? Not to sound like a dick, but if you were even moderately like you were in this thread (where the anonymity factor makes it reasonably acceptable), everyone probably hated you. How would that not be obvious?

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MrOrange
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby MrOrange » Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:11 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
TTT-LS wrote:
apper123 wrote:Pro-tip: when drinking with a bunch of law students on the first weekend, don't get involved in grade conversations.

Told ya so

Is this a serious pro-tip? Not to sound like a dick, but if you were even moderately like you were in this thread (where the anonymity factor makes it reasonably acceptable), everyone probably hated you. How would that not be obvious?

TTT has always been an incredible source of well-wrought information. Haven't read through this entire thread, but whatever...dude knows his stuff.

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dresden doll
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby dresden doll » Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:20 pm

Snooker wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Snooker wrote:Looking at Avvo, UT Austin places more people outside Texas than Berkley places out of California, but they're a T10 school. Not all T14 schools really look all that national to me. Many of them have alumni clustered up in a handful of states.

To put this in perspective though, I'm at a T10 school and I know of at least two professors here who are Berkeley Law grads. There are no UT Law grads on the faculty that I know of. So there is still something to the Berkeley degree.


UT grads tend not to shoot straight for the ivory tower, they get involved in more real-world careers. There are more members of Congress that graduated from UT Law, the highest earning individual attorney graduated from UT law, and the highest per profit law firm is headed by a UT law grad (not to mention, there's way more super lawyers). Most law academics these days are the type of people that pontificate about highly theoretical ideas that have no connection to reality, but that's not the kind of person that goes to UT.


Please.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:22 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Snooker wrote:UT grads tend not to shoot straight for the ivory tower, they get involved in more real-world careers. There are more members of Congress that graduated from UT Law, the highest earning individual attorney graduated from UT law, and the highest per profit law firm is headed by a UT law grad (not to mention, there's way more super lawyers). Most law academics these days are the type of people that pontificate about highly theoretical ideas that have no connection to reality, but that's not the kind of person that goes to UT.


Please.

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superserial
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby superserial » Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:24 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
TTT-LS wrote:
apper123 wrote:Pro-tip: when drinking with a bunch of law students on the first weekend, don't get involved in grade conversations.

Told ya so

Is this a serious pro-tip? Not to sound like a dick, but if you were even moderately like you were in this thread (where the anonymity factor makes it reasonably acceptable), everyone probably hated you. How would that not be obvious?


it's not a pro-tip for people who aren't socially retarded attention hookers.




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