Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

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JazzOne
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby JazzOne » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:38 pm

I'm thinking about transferring too. As far as I can tell, the only schools with EA transfer options are GULC and Northwestern. Is this correct? Or are there any more T14s with EA transfer apps? Does an EA transfer app contain the same kind of binding commitment as an incoming EA app?

I'm sure this info is out there somewhere, but TLS is much less helpful with respect to transfers than it is for incoming 1L applicants.

Edit: Final question: I read rumors of a UCLA to Yale transfer with a half scholly at Yale. What's the word on scholarships for transfers?
Last edited by JazzOne on Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby prezidentv8 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:39 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Yeah. Probably shipping an app off to GULC EA. Any thoughts on my odds there? (or should I take this to another thread?)

Also, a LOT of people from my school transfer to UVA. Hint: we're nearly neighbors. Obviously that's contingent on my second semester grades, and I am not just banking on good grades again. Maybe I just got lucky???

I don't know much about transfer chances, but I assume that with those grades, you'll be in an excellent position. If you need references from professors, obviously you should work on getting those.

I don't think anyone who does great in all of their classes merely "got lucky." If you did that well, you clearly know what you're doing.


My problem is that I still can't tell if I know what I'm doing. No grades yet either. At least with the stupid LSAT you knew where you stood.

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apper123
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby apper123 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:40 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Yeah. Probably shipping an app off to GULC EA. Any thoughts on my odds there? (or should I take this to another thread?)

Also, a LOT of people from my school transfer to UVA. Hint: we're nearly neighbors. Obviously that's contingent on my second semester grades, and I am not just banking on good grades again. Maybe I just got lucky???

I don't know much about transfer chances, but I assume that with those grades, you'll be in an excellent position. If you need references from professors, obviously you should work on getting those.

I don't think anyone who does great in all of their classes merely "got lucky." If you did that well, you clearly know what you're doing.


Yeah. Everyone around here is vowing to "work so much harder" next semester, while I'm just going to concentrate on "working smarter" and will likely put the same amount of hours in (more than most, less than a solid minority). Our professors are a LOT different this semester and have very different teaching styles, but the exams are much the same, so I feel somewhat confident. Even if I don't mesh with a professor (and there's one, maybe two, I certainly don't mesh with), I feel like I can turn to my supplements (as I did in a class I got an A in last semester).

Letters of recommendation are a toughie. I rarely volunteer in class, and I'm sure I didn't stick out as any type of brilliant person on cold calls. I forced myself to visit each prof a few times to ask questions (even if I didn't really need a pressing answer), just so they would remember my face if I ever needed to come calling for a LoR. Obviously in the next week or so I'm going to need to do that. I think it will be especially awkward with one prof, since he is a higher up at the law school overall. We'll see how it goes.

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Cavalier
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Cavalier » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:41 pm

I'm sure this info is out there somewhere, but TLS is much less helpful with respect to transfers than it is for incoming 1L applicants.

That's because most of us have not gone through the transfer process, so we have no idea what it involves. I would be more helpful I if I actually knew anything.

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JazzOne
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby JazzOne » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:42 pm

Cavalier wrote:
I'm sure this info is out there somewhere, but TLS is much less helpful with respect to transfers than it is for incoming 1L applicants.

That's because most of us have not gone through the transfer process, so we have no idea what it involves. I would be more helpful I if I actually knew anything.

Ya, it wasn't a personal attack on TLSers. Just a general comment about the site.

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apper123
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby apper123 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:49 pm

There is a good thread on here I just read (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=103241) and the Yahoo group as well which I am reading now. I was aware of the existence of both of them before my grades, but did not want to jinx it and look.

GULC EA is definitely happening. Chicago ED? Depends on my rank. If I really am top 5 %, then I have a good shot at Chicago... and it's binding... eehhhhh. I dunno about that.

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thesealocust
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:57 pm

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:57 pm

Might be worth it for Chicago EA for you, though, simply because cracking HYS from the T2 is incredibly unlikely.

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JazzOne
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby JazzOne » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:08 pm

thesealocust wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
I'm sure this info is out there somewhere, but TLS is much less helpful with respect to transfers than it is for incoming 1L applicants.

That's because most of us have not gone through the transfer process, so we have no idea what it involves. I would be more helpful I if I actually knew anything.

Ya, it wasn't a personal attack on TLSers. Just a general comment about the site.


Get thee to the yahoogroups transferapps list if you're planning to look into the transfer process. Also look at the new book just written... something like 'the art of the law school transfer'. Also check Arrow's post.

Keep in mind that the VAST majority of transfer info is for people starting at a T4-T2 and trying to move up. People very, very rarely leave schools in the top 20 or so because it usually means giving up guaranteed law review, and Law Review + top law school often (always?) beats topper law school + secondary journal.

As far as money for transfers, I would be shocked to see it ever offered as merit aid, least of all at Yale. That anecdote is likely either misremembered or false.

[Not thinking about transferring, but easily bored and fascinated by all facets of the law school process :P]

According to the website, transfers to Yale can still make law review. I am only interested in HYS (probably only Y). Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, though.

Snooker
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Snooker » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:12 pm

I'm not sure what the point of transferring from Texas to a non-HYS school would be unless you really want academia or hate living in Texas.

The Texas Law Review is also in the top 10 (or 11) law reviews.

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JazzOne
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby JazzOne » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:14 pm

Snooker wrote:I'm not sure what the point of transferring from Texas to a non-HYS school would be unless you really want academia or hate living in Texas.

The Texas Law Review is also in the top 10 (or 11) law reviews.

JazzOne wrote:I am only interested in HYS (probably only Y).

The only reason I mentioned GULC and Northwestern was to find out if they were the only schools with early transfer applications.

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thesealocust
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:16 pm

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MadameX
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby MadameX » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:32 pm

[quote]People very, very rarely leave schools in the top 20 or so because it usually means giving up guaranteed law review, and Law Review + top law school often (always?) beats topper law school + secondary journal./quote]

Is this true? I am currently a 1L at one of the historical top 18 but not top 14 schools, and am considering transferring. I'm still waiting on one grade, but right now I'm sitting on a 4.0. Is it really only worth transferring for the trinity?

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:42 pm

Er, if Northwestern has an EA transfer, it's a new thing this year.

As far as transferring goes: I think it would be difficult to argue that Fordham + LR is going to be better than NYU/Columbia + secondary journal (or no journal, for that matter,) even for people who want to be in NYC. Same goes for Wisconsin (Or ND, Iowa, MN, WUSTL, Illinois, etc.) + LR v. Chicago + secondary.

Transferring from an 18 to a T14 makes sense if you're doing it for geographical reasons. Transferring from UCLA to Columbia if you want to practice in California may not be the smartest move, but transferring from UCLA to NYU if you want NYC/DC is probably a good move.

I/R/T making LR as a transfer: it is tough. Most of the top schools have more grade-ons than write ons (Chicago, for example, only takes 10 people on to LR via the write-on, vs. 18 people who grade-on.) Many schools (Harvard being one, Chicago being another if you don't do ED) require you to participate in the write-on along with every other student, and no slots are "reserved" for transfers (no transfers to Chicago made it on to Law Review via the write-on this year, for example.) This means you're going to be doing multiple LR write-ons (original school unless you want to gamble or you got in to GULC ED and know you'll go there + GULC + Harvard + Chicago + any others that don't have a seperate transfer write-on.) So yes, transferring generally does mean you lose LR, particularly for OCI purposes (you can always note-on, but you can't in time for OCI; this would be for clerkships. Most people who embark on this path fail.)

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thesealocust
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:51 pm

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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apper123
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby apper123 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:15 pm

Since I know LoRs can take 2-4 weeks to get done, and I think the deadlines start happening in February, I approached a professor this afternoon to ask for a letter of recommendation. That's easily one of the most awkward conversations I've had in my life, especially considering he's a higher up at the school. I actually kinda feel bad after the fact now.

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thesealocust
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:24 pm

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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apper123
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby apper123 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:26 pm

thesealocust wrote:
apper123 wrote:Since I know LoRs can take 2-4 weeks to get done, and I think the deadlines start happening in February, I approached a professor this afternoon to ask for a letter of recommendation. That's easily one of the most awkward conversations I've had in my life, especially considering he's a higher up at the school. I actually kinda feel bad after the fact now.


lol. Didn't you get your last grade like 20 minutes ago? Isn't the body still cold / bed still warm / insert disturbing image here?


Yeah, but he was in his office; I was passing by; I just did it. He's a busy guy, so I figured I'd get on top of it right away. You don't think that was offensive of me, do you?

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:30 pm

apper123 wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
apper123 wrote:Since I know LoRs can take 2-4 weeks to get done, and I think the deadlines start happening in February, I approached a professor this afternoon to ask for a letter of recommendation. That's easily one of the most awkward conversations I've had in my life, especially considering he's a higher up at the school. I actually kinda feel bad after the fact now.


lol. Didn't you get your last grade like 20 minutes ago? Isn't the body still cold / bed still warm / insert disturbing image here?


Yeah, but he was in his office; I was passing by; I just did it. He's a busy guy, so I figured I'd get on top of it right away. You don't think that was offensive of me, do you?


I found it to be a better approach to schedule an appointment to discuss your exam. When you go in to discuss it, the professor will be incredulous, because you did well. This allows you to talk about how you still feel you have room to improve... and then you slip in the transfer request.

Did this for all three of my recommendations for transferring. Worked well. Also, profs understand when students want to transfer. The administration did an exit interview with me, and one of the deans actually said "you would have been crazy to stick around." All of my recommenders felt the same way. Most of these folks got their degrees from the very top schools. They all know what the legal market looks like today. Don't worry about the awkwardness.

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apper123
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby apper123 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:32 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
apper123 wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
apper123 wrote:Since I know LoRs can take 2-4 weeks to get done, and I think the deadlines start happening in February, I approached a professor this afternoon to ask for a letter of recommendation. That's easily one of the most awkward conversations I've had in my life, especially considering he's a higher up at the school. I actually kinda feel bad after the fact now.


lol. Didn't you get your last grade like 20 minutes ago? Isn't the body still cold / bed still warm / insert disturbing image here?


Yeah, but he was in his office; I was passing by; I just did it. He's a busy guy, so I figured I'd get on top of it right away. You don't think that was offensive of me, do you?


I found it to be a better approach to schedule an appointment to discuss your exam. When you go in to discuss it, the professor will be incredulous, because you did well. This allows you to talk about how you still feel you have room to improve... and then you slip in the transfer request.

Did this for all three of my recommendations for transferring. Worked well. Also, profs understand when students want to transfer. The administration did an exit interview with me, and one of the deans actually said "you would have been crazy to stick around." All of my recommenders felt the same way. Most of these folks got their degrees from the very top schools. They all know what the legal market looks like today. Don't worry about the awkwardness.


I went in to review my exam. He told me I should schedule an appointment. I said ok I will I had some other things to talk about with you too. He asked me what they were, and I told him. He seemed a little troubled, but I think he understands. I hope so, at least. I have a lot of respect for him. He quickly agreed to write the letter, even as I was stuttering all over myself trying to explain why I wanted it.

I stressed (and repeated over and over): " I really like it here, and I'm not trying to run away. I'm just keeping my options open is all."

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Kohinoor
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Kohinoor » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:34 pm

MadameX wrote:Is this true? I am currently a 1L at one of the historical top 18 but not top 14 schools, and am considering transferring. I'm still waiting on one grade, but right now I'm sitting on a 4.0. Is it really only worth transferring for the trinity?

Look what our careless hands have wrought.

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MadameX
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby MadameX » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:41 pm

Not sure what that means. Anyway, I just got my last grade which ended up being a B+ - blah. Anyway. I now have a 3.8. Are HYS possible if I maintain similar grades this semester?

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:42 pm

ZOMG NOOOOOZ NOT A 3.8!!!!!!!

If a 3.8 is top 10%, then yes, H and maybe S will be plausible. If you're in the top 5%, all three will be in play.

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MadameX
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby MadameX » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:49 pm

K, thanks.
Last edited by MadameX on Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zizou
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby zizou » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:55 pm

The wait was worth it! Now I can finally stop feeling guilty for "not studying enough".




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