Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

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rayiner
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby rayiner » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:48 am

vanwinkle wrote:
Lxw wrote:I'm not really in the bottom half of my class either

:shock:


Suckers.

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thesealocust
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:00 am

edit: n/m/quote]
Last edited by thesealocust on Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:07 am

Lxw wrote:Anyways, I figured I'd tell you guys...I'm not dropping out of lawl school


Thank god. How could you make us worry like that? Oh god, this process has done a number on all of us.

*hugs*

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OperaAttorney
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby OperaAttorney » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:27 am

Snooker wrote:
hang in there you guys. The curving thing is pretty vile, I agree, and remember that neither your professional worth or personal worth is measured in those grades. Some people like to think so, but they are full of it. Once you get out there and start representing clients, and start winning cases (or making deals), I think you will recognize this. A single mistake on a memo today in the long run is irrelevant, because you're a novice and when you get better, all of your memos will be good. Really, law exams only test 1 skill, and there are 20 important lawyer skills. It's not the end of the world that you made a mistake here or slightly underperformed when compared to T30 law students there.



So, does that mean that many of the posters IN THIS THREAD are full of it?

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panda
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby panda » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:56 am

OperaAttorney wrote:
Snooker wrote:
hang in there you guys. The curving thing is pretty vile, I agree, and remember that neither your professional worth or personal worth is measured in those grades. Some people like to think so, but they are full of it. Once you get out there and start representing clients, and start winning cases (or making deals), I think you will recognize this. A single mistake on a memo today in the long run is irrelevant, because you're a novice and when you get better, all of your memos will be good. Really, law exams only test 1 skill, and there are 20 important lawyer skills. It's not the end of the world that you made a mistake here or slightly underperformed when compared to T30 law students there.



So, does that mean that many of the posters IN THIS THREAD are full of it?


isn't that everyone on tls?

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mallard
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby mallard » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:58 am

Snooker is sounding a lot like the "we'll see if your Yale degree can save you when you're up against me in court!" types.

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apper123
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby apper123 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:01 am

"Objection! Defense counsel is leading the witness!"
"Your honor! Plaintiff's attorneys went to a TTT!"
"Overruled!"

omg
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby omg » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:32 am

UVA people:

Do we think there's any chance of getting more grades today? Does anyone know whether the law school and/or the university is open?

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summertimechi
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby summertimechi » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:41 am

.
Last edited by summertimechi on Thu May 13, 2010 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Snooker
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Snooker » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:56 am

mallard wrote:Snooker is sounding a lot like the "we'll see if your Yale degree can save you when you're up against me in court!" types.


lol I never counted on it. I was only pointing out that there is a modest/low correlation between career success and law school grades. I know lots of attorneys who didn't do so well in law school who went on to be extremely successful. If you want a theoretical basis, there's around 20 important lawyering skills, ranging from legal analysis to negotiation to oral advocacy. Law exams largely test speed, legal reasoning, and problem solving, so hit only a small percentage of the important legal skills. Thus if your grades aren't totally on top, you shouldn't be in nervous breakdown mode, because there are lots of skills real lawyers use that aren't tested by them. I know TLS has a high-score-or-die mentality, but it's an elitist internet forum with the word "top" in its name. What do you expect? What I hear from real lawyers and law professors doesn't reflect the mentality I've encountered here. This topic has been discussed widely on the internet before, but law student forums seem to be the only place where people say you must have high grades or else are a failure.

@the interesting Yalie comment... I think Fordham does pretty well in NY. No need to bash the school. I am no fan of the school, but they graduate good lawyers. As for myself, I still don't know where I stand. If I did awesome, I will go live the big and exciting life of a corporate attorney proof reading stock purchase agreements and reviewing documents 70 hours a week. If I am a failure, I will probably follow in the footsteps of Joe Jamail and live the less exciting life of a litigator, representing individual plaintiffs against the injustices of large companies, handling trials by myself and winning big cases.

Snooker
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Snooker » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:58 am

OperaAttorney wrote:
Snooker wrote:
hang in there you guys. The curving thing is pretty vile, I agree, and remember that neither your professional worth or personal worth is measured in those grades. Some people like to think so, but they are full of it. Once you get out there and start representing clients, and start winning cases (or making deals), I think you will recognize this. A single mistake on a memo today in the long run is irrelevant, because you're a novice and when you get better, all of your memos will be good. Really, law exams only test 1 skill, and there are 20 important lawyer skills. It's not the end of the world that you made a mistake here or slightly underperformed when compared to T30 law students there.



So, does that mean that many of the posters IN THIS THREAD are full of it?


Maybe. Can we get specific names of people who have said that grades reflect your professional worth as an attorney? (this is a broader question than, does it lead to high-paying jobs?) (edit - I know there's been responses I haven't read, but the prior sentence should be interpreted to ask if it leads to a first high paying job, in the relative short-term, as opposed to long-term career success. biglaw attrition is extremely, extremely high)
Last edited by Snooker on Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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superserial
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby superserial » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:01 am

my drunk TA better have not been lying about getting grades today.

I got another dream grade last night. So far my dream transcript is looking pretty legit... A in torts, A- in civ pro and A+ in calculus (wtf?).

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superserial
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby superserial » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:07 am

should have dream banned them.

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apper123
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby apper123 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:10 am

summertimechi wrote:Dear Michlaw:

Please let your profs know that sending an email to the class to say that you had finished grading exams a month ago but chose not to turn them in so as not to ruin ppl's vacations b/c they sucked so bad, THEN listing out the ways in which they sucked and inspiring section-wide panic, THEN not getting aforementioned grades back to us within the week even after saying they would be out either the day of or day after your 'you ppl are stupid, lulz' email...is poor form. Freakin ay. That's all. Toodles & Go Blue.

<3,
Summertimechi


That's honestly really awful of the professor in this situation.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:39 am

Snooker wrote:
mallard wrote:Snooker is sounding a lot like the "we'll see if your Yale degree can save you when you're up against me in court!" types.


lol I never counted on it. I was only pointing out that there is a modest/low correlation between career success and law school grades. I know lots of attorneys who didn't do so well in law school who went on to be extremely successful. If you want a theoretical basis, there's around 20 important lawyering skills, ranging from legal analysis to negotiation to oral advocacy. Law exams largely test speed, legal reasoning, and problem solving, so hit only a small percentage of the important legal skills. Thus if your grades aren't totally on top, you shouldn't be in nervous breakdown mode, because there are lots of skills real lawyers use that aren't tested by them. I know TLS has a high-score-or-die mentality, but it's an elitist internet forum with the word "top" in its name. What do you expect? What I hear from real lawyers and law professors doesn't reflect the mentality I've encountered here. This topic has been discussed widely on the internet before, but law student forums seem to be the only place where people say you must have high grades or else are a failure.

@the interesting Yalie comment... I think Fordham does pretty well in NY. No need to bash the school. I am no fan of the school, but they graduate good lawyers. As for myself, I still don't know where I stand. If I did awesome, I will go live the big and exciting life of a corporate attorney proof reading stock purchase agreements and reviewing documents 70 hours a week. If I am a failure, I will probably follow in the footsteps of Joe Jamail and live the less exciting life of a litigator, representing individual plaintiffs against the injustices of large companies, handling trials by myself and winning big cases.


Meh. Look at any top firm... those from BU/BC/GW/ND/WUSTL/Fordham almost always have some sort of honors distinction and usually a LR or secondary journal board position. Grades may not predict long term success, but my god do they help within the first 10 or so years out.

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ObLaDiObLaDa
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby ObLaDiObLaDa » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:06 pm

Well, it sounds like people at my school will be getting grades sometime this week. I had a dream last night my friend and I were checking my law school grades from my laptop in my college dorm room (not sure what that means) and I got an H in torts and she got a Y. This brings my number of dreams about my grades over the past month to three.

My school's website took a few extra seconds to load and tell me I have no grades up yet. I'm pretty sure I just had a minor heart attack. This is not going to be a fun week.

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apper123
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby apper123 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:19 pm

betasteve wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
Snooker wrote:
mallard wrote:Snooker is sounding a lot like the "we'll see if your Yale degree can save you when you're up against me in court!" types.


lol I never counted on it. I was only pointing out that there is a modest/low correlation between career success and law school grades. I know lots of attorneys who didn't do so well in law school who went on to be extremely successful. If you want a theoretical basis, there's around 20 important lawyering skills, ranging from legal analysis to negotiation to oral advocacy. Law exams largely test speed, legal reasoning, and problem solving, so hit only a small percentage of the important legal skills. Thus if your grades aren't totally on top, you shouldn't be in nervous breakdown mode, because there are lots of skills real lawyers use that aren't tested by them. I know TLS has a high-score-or-die mentality, but it's an elitist internet forum with the word "top" in its name. What do you expect? What I hear from real lawyers and law professors doesn't reflect the mentality I've encountered here. This topic has been discussed widely on the internet before, but law student forums seem to be the only place where people say you must have high grades or else are a failure.

@the interesting Yalie comment... I think Fordham does pretty well in NY. No need to bash the school. I am no fan of the school, but they graduate good lawyers. As for myself, I still don't know where I stand. If I did awesome, I will go live the big and exciting life of a corporate attorney proof reading stock purchase agreements and reviewing documents 70 hours a week. If I am a failure, I will probably follow in the footsteps of Joe Jamail and live the less exciting life of a litigator, representing individual plaintiffs against the injustices of large companies, handling trials by myself and winning big cases.


Meh. Look at any top firm... those from BU/BC/GW/ND/WUSTL/Fordham almost always have some sort of honors distinction and usually a LR or secondary journal board position. Grades may not predict long term success, but my god do they help within the first 10 or so years out.

10 yrs is far too much, save attempting to lateral. Excluding lateral (where I agree it has benefit), your degree probably matters most 1-2 years out, and then again at the 8-10 year mark if you don't make partner. Otherwise, it is simply going to be quality of work/results, potential to build a book or play your role, and work ethic.


I think where your degree is from will matter your entire career IMO, unless you make a huge name for yourself. I'm talking the difference between a TT degree and a T14 degree.

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thesealocust
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:21 pm

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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OperaAttorney
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby OperaAttorney » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:28 pm

panda wrote:
OperaAttorney wrote:
Snooker wrote:
hang in there you guys. The curving thing is pretty vile, I agree, and remember that neither your professional worth or personal worth is measured in those grades. Some people like to think so, but they are full of it. Once you get out there and start representing clients, and start winning cases (or making deals), I think you will recognize this. A single mistake on a memo today in the long run is irrelevant, because you're a novice and when you get better, all of your memos will be good. Really, law exams only test 1 skill, and there are 20 important lawyer skills. It's not the end of the world that you made a mistake here or slightly underperformed when compared to T30 law students there.



So, does that mean that many of the posters IN THIS THREAD are full of it?


isn't that everyone on tls?


Fortunately not. For example, BetaSteven (even though he's on a mission to ban just about everybody :lol), Esc, and Rayiner aren't "full of it."

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Kohinoor
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:26 pm

thesealocust wrote:
omg wrote:UVA people:

Do we think there's any chance of getting more grades today? Does anyone know whether the law school and/or the university is open?


Looks that way. There is at least one new course evaluation up, and the pattern (I think) thus far has been course evaluation up sometime morning to mid-afternoon, grade up sometime between 5pm and midnight.

Funny: All but 1 crim and all but 1 civ pro professor have their grades in, but only 1 torts and 2 contracts professors have their grades in / evals up. All told it's more grades / sooner than I expected though.

I fully expect to be the last one to get his contracts and torts grades. I would legitimately be not surprised if they landed in mid February.

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ILikeIke
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby ILikeIke » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:09 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
omg wrote:UVA people:

Do we think there's any chance of getting more grades today? Does anyone know whether the law school and/or the university is open?


Looks that way. There is at least one new course evaluation up, and the pattern (I think) thus far has been course evaluation up sometime morning to mid-afternoon, grade up sometime between 5pm and midnight.

Funny: All but 1 crim and all but 1 civ pro professor have their grades in, but only 1 torts and 2 contracts professors have their grades in / evals up. All told it's more grades / sooner than I expected though.

I fully expect to be the last one to get his contracts and torts grades. I would legitimately be not surprised if they landed in mid February.


Ugh, my contracts class had evaluations posted on Thursday morning when I woke up, and they STILL haven't posted our grades!

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Cavalier
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Cavalier » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:25 pm

Still only one grade
When does the suffering end?
Lazy professors...

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mallard
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby mallard » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:29 pm

Snooker wrote:If I did awesome, I will go live the big and exciting life of a corporate attorney proof reading stock purchase agreements and reviewing documents 70 hours a week. If I am a failure, I will probably follow in the footsteps of Joe Jamail and live the less exciting life of a litigator, representing individual plaintiffs against the injustices of large companies, handling trials by myself and winning big cases.


I don't deny the existence of golden handcuffs, but as to your Joe Jamail plan - lol, good luck.

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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Esc » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:32 pm

OperaAttorney wrote:
panda wrote:
OperaAttorney wrote:
Snooker wrote:
hang in there you guys. The curving thing is pretty vile, I agree, and remember that neither your professional worth or personal worth is measured in those grades. Some people like to think so, but they are full of it. Once you get out there and start representing clients, and start winning cases (or making deals), I think you will recognize this. A single mistake on a memo today in the long run is irrelevant, because you're a novice and when you get better, all of your memos will be good. Really, law exams only test 1 skill, and there are 20 important lawyer skills. It's not the end of the world that you made a mistake here or slightly underperformed when compared to T30 law students there.



So, does that mean that many of the posters IN THIS THREAD are full of it?


isn't that everyone on tls?


Fortunately not. For example, BetaSteven (even though he's on a mission to ban just about everybody :lol), Esc, and Rayiner aren't "full of it."


I object to this accusation. I, for one, am completely full of it.

Snooker
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Re: Waiting for 1L grades...so much worse than waiting for LSATs

Postby Snooker » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:03 pm

it: the tasty texas snack that top law students love to eat!




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