GW Law Class of 2014

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2014)
User avatar
Naked Dude
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby Naked Dude » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:05 pm

Wow, lots of jobless 3Ls. Shit.

User avatar
androstan
Posts: 2546
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby androstan » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:40 am

The most recent LST data:

--LinkRemoved--

Indicate that at least 38% of GW grads c/o 2009 report "biglaw" salaries of 160k. Another 3.8% report article III clerkships.

User avatar
SilverE2
Posts: 931
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:04 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby SilverE2 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:54 am

androstan wrote:The most recent LST data:

--LinkRemoved--

Indicate that at least 38% of GW grads c/o 2009 report "biglaw" salaries of 160k. Another 3.8% report article III clerkships.


The latest NLJ Go To Schools list puts GW at 24% in the NLJ 250. So is there really another 14% of students that are going to firms that pay market outside of the NLJ? Or is there something else going on?

User avatar
androstan
Posts: 2546
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby androstan » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:43 am

SilverE2 wrote:
androstan wrote:The most recent LST data:

--LinkRemoved--

Indicate that at least 38% of GW grads c/o 2009 report "biglaw" salaries of 160k. Another 3.8% report article III clerkships.


The latest NLJ Go To Schools list puts GW at 24% in the NLJ 250. So is there really another 14% of students that are going to firms that pay market outside of the NLJ? Or is there something else going on?


The most likely explanation that springs to mind is self-reporting bias/lying. Maybe some grads would overreport their income, even though it's anonymous. That doesn't make much sense to me, unless you're trying to give a tiny boost to your alma mater's ranking I guess.

I don't know a lot about the NLJ list or law firm pay structures etc. Is the idea that a significant number of firms (or other employers) outside the NLJ250 are paying market possible?

User avatar
SilverE2
Posts: 931
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:04 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby SilverE2 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:46 am

androstan wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:
androstan wrote:The most recent LST data:

--LinkRemoved--

Indicate that at least 38% of GW grads c/o 2009 report "biglaw" salaries of 160k. Another 3.8% report article III clerkships.


The latest NLJ Go To Schools list puts GW at 24% in the NLJ 250. So is there really another 14% of students that are going to firms that pay market outside of the NLJ? Or is there something else going on?


The most likely explanation that springs to mind is self-reporting bias/lying. Maybe some grads would overreport their income, even though it's anonymous. That doesn't make much sense to me, unless you're trying to give a tiny boost to your alma mater's ranking I guess.

I don't know a lot about the NLJ list or law firm pay structures etc. Is the idea that a significant number of firms (or other employers) outside the NLJ250 are paying market possible?


I mean...there are SOME firms outside the NLJ paying market...but that seems like a TON. That's a full 50%+ more people reporting 160k salaries.

And that many people lying? Yeah I really don't know what to make of it...

User avatar
Naked Dude
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby Naked Dude » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:01 pm

androstan wrote:The most recent LST data:

--LinkRemoved--

Indicate that at least 38% of GW grads c/o 2009 report "biglaw" salaries of 160k. Another 3.8% report article III clerkships.


Self-report bias perhaps? 38% of all graduates, or 38% of those reporting? LST says 57.1% of 556 graduates reported, meaning ~317 people reported to LST. 38% of 317 is 120.

The NLJ stat, 24% of around 556 grads, means ~133 people. So that sounds about right.

User avatar
androstan
Posts: 2546
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby androstan » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:16 pm

Naked Dude wrote:
androstan wrote:The most recent LST data:

--LinkRemoved--

Indicate that at least 38% of GW grads c/o 2009 report "biglaw" salaries of 160k. Another 3.8% report article III clerkships.


Self-report bias perhaps? 38% of all graduates, or 38% of those reporting? LST says 57.1% of 556 graduates reported, meaning ~317 people reported to LST. 38% of 317 is 120.

The NLJ stat, 24% of around 556 grads, means ~133 people. So that sounds about right.


androstan again wrote:The most recent LST data:

--LinkRemoved--

Indicate that at least 38% of GW grads c/o 2009 report "biglaw" salaries of 160k. Another 3.8% report article III clerkships.


Try again.

User avatar
Naked Dude
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby Naked Dude » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:24 pm

androstan wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:
androstan wrote:The most recent LST data:

--LinkRemoved--

Indicate that at least 38% of GW grads c/o 2009 report "biglaw" salaries of 160k. Another 3.8% report article III clerkships.


Self-report bias perhaps? 38% of all graduates, or 38% of those reporting? LST says 57.1% of 556 graduates reported, meaning ~317 people reported to LST. 38% of 317 is 120.

The NLJ stat, 24% of around 556 grads, means ~133 people. So that sounds about right.


androstan again wrote:The most recent LST data:

--LinkRemoved--

Indicate that at least 38% of GW grads c/o 2009 report "biglaw" salaries of 160k. Another 3.8% report article III clerkships.


Try again.


How can 38% mean 38% of all grads if only 57.3% of c/o 2009 salary ranges are known to LST?

User avatar
androstan
Posts: 2546
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby androstan » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:54 pm

Naked Dude wrote:
androstan wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:
androstan wrote:The most recent LST data:

--LinkRemoved--

Indicate that at least 38% of GW grads c/o 2009 report "biglaw" salaries of 160k. Another 3.8% report article III clerkships.


Self-report bias perhaps? 38% of all graduates, or 38% of those reporting? LST says 57.1% of 556 graduates reported, meaning ~317 people reported to LST. 38% of 317 is 120.

The NLJ stat, 24% of around 556 grads, means ~133 people. So that sounds about right.


androstan again wrote:The most recent LST data:

--LinkRemoved--

Indicate that at least 38% of GW grads c/o 2009 report "biglaw" salaries of 160k. Another 3.8% report article III clerkships.


Try again.


How can 38% mean 38% of all grads if only 57.3% of c/o 2009 salary ranges are known to LST?


Because 38/57.3 = 66.3% of those reporting salaries to LST reported 160kish salaries.

User avatar
SilverE2
Posts: 931
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:04 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby SilverE2 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:43 am

androstan wrote:
Because 38/57.3 = 66.3% of those reporting salaries to LST reported 160kish salaries.


I'm not sure what you're doing with your math there...but naked dude is right. 38% of 57.3% when extrapolated to 100% of the class, would make the NLJ stat of 24% about accurate.

User avatar
philswfc2008
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:26 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby philswfc2008 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:46 pm

Just got in yesterday, and now plan to send my deposit. I'm very excited!

Next up is to obviously find housing. I've read a little bit about the Aston, but I have no idea if that is even available anymore, or if it has filled up. Does anyone know people who live there currently/have lived their in the past? It seems like an intriguing option, I guess I worry that, since the building is just one-room efficiencies (so says the GW website), that I might be a little lonely without a roommate haha. Does anyone else have any ideas/know of any experiences with the Aston? Thanks!

User avatar
androstan
Posts: 2546
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby androstan » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:44 am

SilverE2 wrote:
androstan wrote:
Because 38/57.3 = 66.3% of those reporting salaries to LST reported 160kish salaries.


I'm not sure what you're doing with your math there...but naked dude is right. 38% of 57.3% when extrapolated to 100% of the class, would make the NLJ stat of 24% about accurate.


Except 38% is the percentage of the class that LST reports getting biglaw. It is not the percentage of those reporting to LST getting biglaw. Around 66% of those reporting salaries to LST report 160kish salaries.

User avatar
SilverE2
Posts: 931
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:04 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby SilverE2 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:56 am

androstan wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:
androstan wrote:
Because 38/57.3 = 66.3% of those reporting salaries to LST reported 160kish salaries.


I'm not sure what you're doing with your math there...but naked dude is right. 38% of 57.3% when extrapolated to 100% of the class, would make the NLJ stat of 24% about accurate.


Except 38% is the percentage of the class that LST reports getting biglaw. It is not the percentage of those reporting to LST getting biglaw. Around 66% of those reporting salaries to LST report 160kish salaries.


Oh yeah, you're right. I just checked the LST page and it looks like they already extrapolate it to 100%. So according to them 38% of the class gets biglaw salaries.

So that brings us back to the original question..why a 14% difference between NLJ and LST stats?

User avatar
Deuce
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:12 am

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby Deuce » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:05 pm

philswfc2008 wrote:Just got in yesterday, and now plan to send my deposit. I'm very excited!

Next up is to obviously find housing. I've read a little bit about the Aston, but I have no idea if that is even available anymore, or if it has filled up. Does anyone know people who live there currently/have lived their in the past? It seems like an intriguing option, I guess I worry that, since the building is just one-room efficiencies (so says the GW website), that I might be a little lonely without a roommate haha. Does anyone else have any ideas/know of any experiences with the Aston? Thanks!


I forgot where it is, but someone posted somewhere a GW 1L who took a video tour of his Aston unit and posted it on youtube. Seems like a great 1L setup, I'm doing it if I (likely) end up at GW

User avatar
Entchen
Posts: 722
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby Entchen » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:31 pm

Hey y'all - if any of you are looking for a place to live, my housemates are looking to fill a room. It's about a 15 minute bus ride to GW law school, near supermarkets, library, cvs, restaurants, bars, etc. Rent is ~$1000. We're 4 girls currently (w/ 2 bathrooms) and I think they'd prefer another girl. No furry pets allowed :( We do have a very cute fish though, and our neighbor's cat sometimes comes to visit our porch.

(if this is not allowed, let me know and I'll take it down)

User avatar
fatduck
Posts: 4186
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby fatduck » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:37 pm

Entchen wrote:Hey y'all - if any of you are looking for a place to live, my housemates are looking to fill a room. It's about a 15 minute bus ride to GW law school, near supermarkets, library, cvs, restaurants, bars, etc. Rent is ~$1000. We're 4 girls currently (w/ 2 bathrooms) and I think they'd prefer another girl. No furry pets allowed :( We do have a very cute fish though, and our neighbor's cat sometimes comes to visit our porch.

(if this is not allowed, let me know and I'll take it down)

i'm pretty girly. peas can vouch.

lawschoolftw
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:34 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby lawschoolftw » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:30 pm

philswfc2008 wrote:Just got in yesterday, and now plan to send my deposit. I'm very excited!

Next up is to obviously find housing. I've read a little bit about the Aston, but I have no idea if that is even available anymore, or if it has filled up. Does anyone know people who live there currently/have lived their in the past? It seems like an intriguing option, I guess I worry that, since the building is just one-room efficiencies (so says the GW website), that I might be a little lonely without a roommate haha. Does anyone else have any ideas/know of any experiences with the Aston? Thanks!



GW student here who lives in the Aston. Living in the Aston comes with its concerns (pricing mainly) BUT if you're concerned about being lonely I wouldn't be. Living in the Aston was great for me and after my first year of school the majority of my good friends all lived in the Aston. You will get to know your neighbors/classmates and it will feel a lot like living in a college dorm. In fact there may be days you wish you were away, but I wouldn't worry about being lonely.

User avatar
androstan
Posts: 2546
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby androstan » Mon May 02, 2011 9:25 am

SilverE2 wrote:
androstan wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:
androstan wrote:
Because 38/57.3 = 66.3% of those reporting salaries to LST reported 160kish salaries.


I'm not sure what you're doing with your math there...but naked dude is right. 38% of 57.3% when extrapolated to 100% of the class, would make the NLJ stat of 24% about accurate.


Except 38% is the percentage of the class that LST reports getting biglaw. It is not the percentage of those reporting to LST getting biglaw. Around 66% of those reporting salaries to LST report 160kish salaries.


Oh yeah, you're right. I just checked the LST page and it looks like they already extrapolate it to 100%. So according to them 38% of the class gets biglaw salaries.

So that brings us back to the original question..why a 14% difference between NLJ and LST stats?


This is a very good question.

User avatar
philswfc2008
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:26 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby philswfc2008 » Mon May 02, 2011 12:20 pm

lawschoolftw wrote:
GW student here who lives in the Aston. Living in the Aston comes with its concerns (pricing mainly) BUT if you're concerned about being lonely I wouldn't be. Living in the Aston was great for me and after my first year of school the majority of my good friends all lived in the Aston. You will get to know your neighbors/classmates and it will feel a lot like living in a college dorm. In fact there may be days you wish you were away, but I wouldn't worry about being lonely.


Thanks for the help! I have no idea how long the waitlist for the Aston is, and if it is even a viable option at this point, but I will absolutely look into it!

User avatar
jenesaislaw
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed May 04, 2011 3:26 am

androstan wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:
androstan wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:Self-report bias perhaps? 38% of all graduates, or 38% of those reporting? LST says 57.1% of 556 graduates reported, meaning ~317 people reported to LST. 38% of 317 is 120.

The NLJ stat, 24% of around 556 grads, means ~133 people. So that sounds about right.


androstan again wrote:The most recent LST data:

--LinkRemoved--

Indicate that at least 38% of GW grads c/o 2009 report "biglaw" salaries of 160k. Another 3.8% report article III clerkships.


Try again.


How can 38% mean 38% of all grads if only 57.3% of c/o 2009 salary ranges are known to LST?


Because 38/57.3 = 66.3% of those reporting salaries to LST reported 160kish salaries.



Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

My first thought was that this is due to the one assumption required to make the chart: that all jobs in law firms + business are full time. This assumption is likely unwarranted, though it is possible it would hold true, because 11.2% of graduates were employed in part-time jobs.

For the other categories, PT government, Article III, and other clerks are all unlikely to be part-time positions. This leaves 6.8% in Academia and 3.9% in Public Interest. Those are both much more likely to be part time, but it eats up almost all of the 11.2% if we assume they all are.

Back to the private sector salaries. Based on the data, 97.5% of all graduates were employed at 9 months. 70% of those were in the private sector. Some percentage of those were full time. And then 75% of those reported a salary. This leaves us with 51.1% of the class represented by the salary quartiles, and thus at least 38.3% of the entire class made at least $160,000.

Now let's assume away 11.2% of the private sector to account for every part-time job.

97.5% * 70%* * 88.8%* * 75% = 45.5% of the class. This means that at least 34% of the class made at least $160,000.

The NLJ 250 figure you all are using is incorrect; it's the 2010 figure when you need the 2009 figure. 31.6% of 557 2009 graduates were in NLJ 250 firms. http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2443758843 GW reported 556 to U.S. News, but sometimes these things change by 1 or 2 in each direction, and in this case it won't make a real difference.

The NLJ collects survey data from the law firms themselves, not the law schools. A significant percentage of all NLJ 250 firms responded to the survey about first-year hiring. We have inquired with the NLJ as to the exact percentage, but those in charge of it have yet to get back to me. I'll follow up next week. In any case, it's really important that we know how many firms responded. If the firms that did not respond took a total of 13 graduates, then the numbers match up. Without knowing how many firms, or where they were located, it's tough to tell much more.

This still does not account for the fact that all NLJ 250 firms do not pay 160k. But it's important to note, too, that GW placed a lot of grads in NY and DC for the Class of 2009. It's not impossible that they all made 160k.

Moreover, it's not unreasonable to assume that there were other firms that graduates went to that paid 160k. First, there are boutiques that pay that much. Second, other large firms that are not NLJ 250 pay that much. In 2010, at least a few GW grads made 160k in non-NLJ 250 firms: http://www.law.gwu.edu/Careers/prospect ... stics.aspx But also note that there are grads who made substantially less than 160k (and it only needs to be $1 less to make a difference to this analysis) in NLJ 250 firms according to the 2010 information.

I don't think there's anything to be alarmed about, but I understand why people are skeptical. You all are in a position to do something about this, however. Contact GW and ask them to release better information. Tell them why you're having trouble reconciling the numbers and that it's important for you to do so. Email Law School Transparency about anything you hear from them, too, if you'd like..

s0ccerchik
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:09 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby s0ccerchik » Mon May 16, 2011 10:57 am

Hi future 1Ls! I just finshed my 1L year at GW Law and have a bunch of books / supplements/ etc. that I am trying to sell for very cheap. Email me at elliott.elizabeth.m@gmail.com if you are interested. They are mostly commerical outlines, treatises, etc. I also have a torts textbook.

Thanks,

Liz

sofarfromfriday
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 1:46 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby sofarfromfriday » Mon May 16, 2011 1:48 pm

...

User avatar
SilverE2
Posts: 931
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:04 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby SilverE2 » Mon May 16, 2011 2:03 pm

sofarfromfriday wrote:...


Strong second post.

User avatar
Naked Dude
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby Naked Dude » Sun May 22, 2011 12:11 pm

Deuce wrote:
philswfc2008 wrote:Just got in yesterday, and now plan to send my deposit. I'm very excited!

Next up is to obviously find housing. I've read a little bit about the Aston, but I have no idea if that is even available anymore, or if it has filled up. Does anyone know people who live there currently/have lived their in the past? It seems like an intriguing option, I guess I worry that, since the building is just one-room efficiencies (so says the GW website), that I might be a little lonely without a roommate haha. Does anyone else have any ideas/know of any experiences with the Aston? Thanks!


I forgot where it is, but someone posted somewhere a GW 1L who took a video tour of his Aston unit and posted it on youtube. Seems like a great 1L setup, I'm doing it if I (likely) end up at GW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGDddaIL4Hw

User avatar
Naked Dude
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: GW Law Class of 2014

Postby Naked Dude » Fri May 27, 2011 6:49 pm

Wow not a very active thread. Come on, who put down or is planning to put down the second deposit?




Return to “TLS Class of 2014 Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest