UC Berkeley Class of 2014

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2014)
r6_philly
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby r6_philly » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:48 pm

BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
powerlawyer06 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I have to agree with you the Boalt-hate is almost unbearable on this forum. People should make rational decisions based on their own situations.


+1


While I agree in general that there is a lot of Boalt hate on TLS, r6_philly and powerlawyer06, do you see any boalt hate ITT? It seems that boalt2L is speaking from experience as a boalt student, not necessarily as a boalt hater. That doesn't mean that his anecdotal evidence should have people withdrawing their applications from Berkeley, but I don't think his input is meaningless or even harmful.

I could be way off here . . .


I didn't say "ITT," I said "on this forum" - referring to TLS.

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Sinra
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby Sinra » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:52 pm

sarahh wrote:I can imagine PI organizations preferring people with experience, but I thought biglaw wanted young, inexperienced people that they could mold? I do wonder if people at Berkeley are worse off than those at peer schools. My understanding is that the San Francisco legal market is small and very competitive and that government hiring is non-existent. (Not that things are all sunshine and roses elsewhere, but the economy in California was especially hard hit.) And the school is pretty far away from NYC and the other legal markets on the east coast. I mentioned to my father, who is a lawyer, that if Berkeley matched my scholarship offer from Michigan, I would consider going there, and he told me that if I go to Berkeley I will be stuck in California and that east coast firms do not hire Berkeley students. He said he felt that Michigan was a much better choice. He does not work for a firm himself, so I don't think he is the best authority on legal hiring, but I would imagine that Berkeley students would find it harder to get a job on the east coast than students in schools on the east coast, especially Berkeley students that are from the west coast and do not have ties back east. Any current students want to chime in about this?


I don't know about your dad but I know 4 biglaw lawyers on the east coast. Each one told me that Berkeley is a "top school" comparable to NYU, Chicago, Columbia, Michigan, Penn as it relates to respect among law firms and hires. Two of them are on hiring committees for their firm and specifically told me they'd like to see more Berkeley grads on the east coast to have broader representation of schools in their firms. He said "too bad most of them choose to stay in CA". In fact, he recommended Berkeley over Michigan.

Please note that Boalt2L had no previous work experience and that may have hurt him (from his previous posts). TBH I'm sort of surprised that someone that went to law school is under the impression law firms would prefer not to hire recent graduates (as opposed to "mid-level" graduates...whatever that means). It's the hiring model of the field.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:54 pm

r6_philly wrote:
BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
powerlawyer06 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I have to agree with you the Boalt-hate is almost unbearable on this forum. People should make rational decisions based on their own situations.


+1


While I agree in general that there is a lot of Boalt hate on TLS, r6_philly and powerlawyer06, do you see any boalt hate ITT? It seems that boalt2L is speaking from experience as a boalt student, not necessarily as a boalt hater. That doesn't mean that his anecdotal evidence should have people withdrawing their applications from Berkeley, but I don't think his input is meaningless or even harmful.

I could be way off here . . .


I didn't say "ITT," I said "on this forum" - referring to TLS.


Yea, I guess I just thought it odd that Boalt hate was brought up in this conversation when in fact I hadn't seen any ITT. I agree with you and bilbobgagins about the employability of any law student (or other job seeker).

r6_philly
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby r6_philly » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:55 pm

BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
Yea, I guess I just thought it odd that Boalt hate was brought up in this conversation when in fact I hadn't seen any ITT. I agree with you and bilbobgagins about the employability of any law student (or other job seeker).


It's usually present in multiple threads and it's always the same. So I didn't really scroll back to check if it is indeed ITT - so I just referred to TLS in general.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:56 pm

r6_philly wrote:
BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
Yea, I guess I just thought it odd that Boalt hate was brought up in this conversation when in fact I hadn't seen any ITT. I agree with you and bilbobgagins about the employability of any law student (or other job seeker).


It's usually present in multiple threads and it's always the same. So I didn't really scroll back to check if it is indeed ITT - so I just referred to TLS in general.


Screw TLS Boalt hate! Go Bears! :mrgreen:

sarahh
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby sarahh » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:00 pm

Sinra wrote:I don't know about your dad but I know 4 biglaw lawyers on the east coast. Each one told me that Berkeley is a "top school" comparable to NYU, Chicago, Columbia, Michigan, Penn as it relates to respect among law firms and hires. Two of them are on hiring committees for their firm and specifically told me they'd like to see more Berkeley grads on the east coast to have broader representation of schools in their firms. He said "too bad most of them choose to stay in CA". In fact, he recommended Berkeley over Michigan.

Please note that Boalt2L had no previous work experience and that may have hurt him (from his previous posts). TBH I'm sort of surprised that someone that went to law school is under the impression law firms would prefer not to hire recent graduates (as opposed to "mid-level" graduates...whatever that means). It's the hiring model of the field.


He is usually very supportive of whatever decisions I make and never tells me what to do, so I kind of freaked out when he said that, but he is in-house counsel. I don't think he is necessarily that aware of biglaw hiring. I am not trying to spread hate or misinformation. I am just worried about making the right decision.

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Sinra
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby Sinra » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:04 pm

sarahh wrote:
Sinra wrote:I don't know about your dad but I know 4 biglaw lawyers on the east coast. Each one told me that Berkeley is a "top school" comparable to NYU, Chicago, Columbia, Michigan, Penn as it relates to respect among law firms and hires. Two of them are on hiring committees for their firm and specifically told me they'd like to see more Berkeley grads on the east coast to have broader representation of schools in their firms. He said "too bad most of them choose to stay in CA". In fact, he recommended Berkeley over Michigan.

Please note that Boalt2L had no previous work experience and that may have hurt him (from his previous posts). TBH I'm sort of surprised that someone that went to law school is under the impression law firms would prefer not to hire recent graduates (as opposed to "mid-level" graduates...whatever that means). It's the hiring model of the field.


He is usually very supportive of whatever decisions I make and never tells me what to do, so I kind of freaked out when he said that, but he is in-house counsel. I don't think he is necessarily that aware of biglaw hiring. I am not trying to spread hate or misinformation. I am just worried about making the right decision.


I completely understand. And I'm sure your dad is knows where he is coming from. I just wanted to give you another perspective/anecdotal evidence. I trust these people's opinions on hiring/schools only because they are currently at top firms in NYC. They also said (at least 3 of them), "Do not believe what you read online. It's generally bullshit." When I asked one about CCN vs. MVPB she was like "WHAT?" The main line is HYS...T14. In that order. No one in the real world of biglaw thinks Cornell is a TTT. Ya know what I mean?

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powerlawyer06
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby powerlawyer06 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:07 pm

BackToTheOldHouse wrote:While I agree in general that there is a lot of Boalt hate on TLS, r6_philly and powerlawyer06, do you see any boalt hate ITT? It seems that boalt2L is speaking from experience as a boalt student, not necessarily as a boalt hater. That doesn't mean that his anecdotal evidence should have people withdrawing their applications from Berkeley, but I don't think his input is meaningless or even harmful.

I could be way off here . . .

First of all there is no way to verify that Boalt2l is even a 2L at Boalt….(or for that matter that any of us are even prospective students)

I appreciate objective opinions that tell a personal story or offer some other kind of wisdom. I don’t appreciate needless and unsubstantiated conjectures about the future that are either negative or positive. I would have reacted the same way if Boalt2L had posted “Everyone at Berkeley is guaranteed Big Law or a cushy PI job!” I took issue with statements in which he tried to predict the future of big law hiring. Since he has made it clear that he is neither an economist nor a hiring partner at a law firm, I think his authority in this field is near zero.

boalt2l wrote: Anyways, I just find it shocking how people are willing to leave awesome jobs for an education which may land you begging a prosecutor to clean his toilet for free, I just don't get it.

This comment was an uncalled for hyperbole of the worst case scenario.

I know we are adults who can look up the post graduation statistics for Boalt in order to make an objective decision but it is not us I am worried about. Misinformation spreads extremely fast on the internet and I suspect twice as fast on this forum. If you google “Boalt Class of 2014” this site is the number one result. I don’t want people that come here for information to be scared away from law school by negative posters like Boalt2L.

Once again, objective posts that cite relevant data or tell a personal story are fine by me.

boalt2l
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby boalt2l » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:09 pm

I love going to Boalt and I love my law school experience. I cannot cite to any relevant data, because as the N+B post shows, working at McDonalds counts towards our employment figure. I'm glad all your lawyer professional family friends view Boalt as a top school, so do mine, but being at a top school is not enough for a job. Go read that N+B post and comments and tell me all those people are not real, who are graduating with no job and have sleepless nights worrying about how they will even survive.

Anyways, it is obviously of no use to show how difficult the job search realities are at school, people will continue to just believe that Boalt is a golden ticket and that opportunities will be all over the place, and rationalize how they will not be that jobless person. That's exactly what I did, and I guess everyone will just have to learn the hard way how bad this market truly is.

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jtemp320
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby jtemp320 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:11 pm

boalt2l wrote:I love going to Boalt and I love my law school experience. I cannot cite to any relevant data, because as the N+B post shows, working at McDonalds counts towards our employment figure. I'm glad all your lawyer professional family friends view Boalt as a top school, so do mine, but being at a top school is not enough for a job Go read that N+B post and comments and tell me all those people are not real, who are graduating with no job and have sleepless nights worrying about how they will even survive.

Anyways, it is obviously of no use to show how difficult the job search realities are at school, people will continue to just believe that Boalt is a golden ticket and that opportunities will be all over the place, and rationalize how they will not be that jobless person. That's exactly what I did, and I guess everyone will just have to learn the hard way how bad this market truly is.


I believe you. My only comment would be that I have friends at Boalt's peers (MVP) who say the same re: employment and can't say the same about their experience.

That said - I think I would love Boalt but am scared to go there (or anywhere) without $...

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bilbobaggins
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby bilbobaggins » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:25 pm

Hi Boalt2l,

Apparently you're one of my classmates. I understand that you're stressed about your job prospects. I think there are different ways to deal with that stress. Scaring future Boalt grads probably isn't the best way to do that. If you're like me, you know a ton of your fellow classmates who have wonderful opportunities lined up for the summer. If you're like me, you also probably know tons of 3Ls with great opportunities lined up for after school. Do some students struggle more in finding these opportunities? Certainly. Do an overwhelming majority of Boalt grads end up working in the legal industry or another industry of their choosing after school? Certainly. I think you'd have a very tough time convincing anyone otherwise with anything other than anecdotes and scary language.

So, while I understand you're stressed and I wish the best for your job search, I'm wondering why you feel the need to speak in such hyperbolic terms about the strengths and weaknesses of your law school.

Love,
Bilbo

r6_philly
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby r6_philly » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:51 pm

boalt2l wrote:being at a top school is not enough for a job


There are also a great number of people who are not at the top school getting jobs. It really is about the applicant and how he/she compare to peers. And a little luck. And a little faith.

Regardless, not everyone get jobs. Check.

pkt63
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby pkt63 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:35 pm

Can anyone speak to the availability of zip cars or the likaround the law school or nearby? i'd love to not take my car, but it would be nice to have options...

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bilbobaggins
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby bilbobaggins » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:01 pm

pkt63 wrote:Can anyone speak to the availability of zip cars or the likaround the law school or nearby? i'd love to not take my car, but it would be nice to have options...


From what I've observed there are a fair amount of zipcars around. People definitely use them.

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re-applicant
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby re-applicant » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:05 pm

Does anyone have links to similar blogs/online communities at other law schools? Specifically, NYU? They have a blog series on their website, but I'm looking for something unfiltered, more like Nuts and Boalts.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby bilbobaggins » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:15 am

Might try an NYU thread?

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Knock
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby Knock » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:08 pm

Anyone know the deadline to apply for matching is off the top of their head?

r6_philly
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby r6_philly » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:09 pm

Knock wrote:Anyone know the deadline to apply for matching is off the top of their head?


I don't remember a deadline.

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Knock
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby Knock » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:10 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Knock wrote:Anyone know the deadline to apply for matching is off the top of their head?


I don't remember a deadline.


Hmm, okay thanks. I think i'm going to apply for matching once i'm done with finals week.

r6_philly
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby r6_philly » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:11 pm

Knock wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Knock wrote:Anyone know the deadline to apply for matching is off the top of their head?


I don't remember a deadline.


Hmm, okay thanks. I think i'm going to apply for matching once i'm done with finals week.


You'd rather go to Berkeley?

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Knock
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby Knock » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:14 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Knock wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Knock wrote:Anyone know the deadline to apply for matching is off the top of their head?


I don't remember a deadline.


Hmm, okay thanks. I think i'm going to apply for matching once i'm done with finals week.


You'd rather go to Berkeley?


Not sure yet, but I think I want the option at least.

r6_philly
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby r6_philly » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:16 pm

Knock wrote:Not sure yet, but I think I want the option at least.


So you are still going to visit? I booked my flight today.

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Knock
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby Knock » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:18 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Knock wrote:Not sure yet, but I think I want the option at least.


So you are still going to visit? I booked my flight today.


Yeah, not during ASW though.

rundoxierun
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby rundoxierun » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:38 pm

Knock wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Knock wrote:Hmm, okay thanks. I think i'm going to apply for matching once i'm done with finals week.


You'd rather go to Berkeley?


Not sure yet, but I think I want the option at least.


Berkeley has already started giving out matching schollys. It took them less than a month to get back to me. If you are leaning Chicago I think you should definitely visit. I visited Chicago really early in the cycle and after visiting other schools Ive really started to sour on UChi. At one point, I was considering taking Chicago over Harvard at the same price. Now, as Ive seen other schools, I wouldnt even take Chicago over the Darrow.

pkt63
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Re: UC Berkeley Class of 2014

Postby pkt63 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:03 pm

Email is out with housing volunteers for ASW! There are dozens of people accessing the google s/sheet and only like 2 dozen volunteers, so it looks like it may be a bit of a circus, but it's exciting to have an opportunity to stay with a current student!




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