UC Berkeley Class of 2014 Forum

[unc0mm0n1]

in what form (email, letter?)
is it 33k per year?
is there a grade stip?
any other interesting/salient points?

I got it in an email from Mrs. Alvarez, it is 34 the first year 33 the other two years. No grade stip (do T14 do this?) I just have to stay in good academic standing. It also said: Please note that we also make summer funding available to students working in the public interest if you choose to pursue that path. Oh and I have to decide by April 15th and if I accept it I have to withdraw from all other schools. Hope that helps.

Congrats! That's amazing. I didn't expect to hear of any scholarship stuff so soon.

I might be rare though, first I already did matching scholarship (with my 90k from UVA), I also choose option 3 (told them to tentatively hold my seat). So I wouldn't worry if you haven't done those things. I was just anxious to find out about my financial aid since Berkeley is one of my top choices. Plus I didn't want all the scholarship money gone.

[pkt63]

in what form (email, letter?)
is it 33k per year?
is there a grade stip?
any other interesting/salient points?

I got it in an email from Mrs. Alvarez, it is 34 the first year 33 the other two years. No grade stip (do T14 do this?) I just have to stay in good academic standing. It also said: Please note that we also make summer funding available to students working in the public interest if you choose to pursue that path. Oh and I have to decide by April 15th and if I accept it I have to withdraw from all other schools. Hope that helps.

Congratulations! That's a really fantastic offer from a fantastic school. Good luck with Harvard, although I know it would be a super tough decision for me if I had to compare the two with that offer.

[pkt63]

Ok, so thinking about unc0mm0n1's results, I'm kind of kicking myself. I had fee waivers to UVa and Duke and meant to apply there, just because it was free, even though I really didn't think I would consider them strongly if accepted. Welll, after I finished the 5 I applied to I was just burnt out (woe is me...don't know how some people apply to like 20 or more!) and just decided since I really didn't want to go to those two i might as well not apply. But now I realize that, if I were to be accepted and IF they offered scholarship $$, I would be in a better position with Berkeley. Yeah, shoulda known this. I wasn't a very sophisticated applicant. Let's hope I do better when I am actually IN law school!

Anyway, last week I got an email about a fee waiver to Penn. It's a strong school and I don't want to just half ass it, but it is free and again, there is the possibility I could get in and get a scholly offer that I could use with Berk (I probably wouldn't really consider going to Penn). Thoughts?

[unc0mm0n1]

Ok, so thinking about unc0mm0n1's results, I'm kind of kicking myself. I had fee waivers to UVa and Duke and meant to apply there, just because it was free, even though I really didn't think I would consider them strongly if accepted. Welll, after I finished the 5 I applied to I was just burnt out (woe is me...don't know how some people apply to like 20 or more!) and just decided since I really didn't want to go to those two i might as well not apply. But now I realize that, if I were to be accepted and IF they offered scholarship $$, I would be in a better position with Berkeley. Yeah, shoulda known this. I wasn't a very sophisticated applicant. Let's hope I do better when I am actually IN law school!

Anyway, last week I got an email about a fee waiver to Penn. It's a strong school and I don't want to just half ass it, but it is free and again, there is the possibility I could get in and get a scholly offer that I could use with Berk (I probably wouldn't really consider going to Penn). Thoughts?

Do it. When is their app deadline?

[pkt63]

Ok, so thinking about unc0mm0n1's results, I'm kind of kicking myself. I had fee waivers to UVa and Duke and meant to apply there, just because it was free, even though I really didn't think I would consider them strongly if accepted. Welll, after I finished the 5 I applied to I was just burnt out (woe is me...don't know how some people apply to like 20 or more!) and just decided since I really didn't want to go to those two i might as well not apply. But now I realize that, if I were to be accepted and IF they offered scholarship $$, I would be in a better position with Berkeley. Yeah, shoulda known this. I wasn't a very sophisticated applicant. Let's hope I do better when I am actually IN law school!

Anyway, last week I got an email about a fee waiver to Penn. It's a strong school and I don't want to just half ass it, but it is free and again, there is the possibility I could get in and get a scholly offer that I could use with Berk (I probably wouldn't really consider going to Penn). Thoughts?

Do it. When is their app deadline?

April 1, although they don't guarantee a decision by a particular date if submitted after Feb 15...which I guess is fine with me. I really should do it, I guess. I hope they aren't inviting me just to reject me, but either way, there's realy nothing to lose!

[Dayan114]

Tag. Looking forward to meeting everyone at ASW!

[ppch]

Tag. Looking forward to meeting everyone at ASW!

[clone22]

Anyone else get any scholly news yet?

[BackToTheOldHouse]

http://boaltalk.blogspot.com/2011/03/ug ... stics.html



Well, not completely . Just thought I'd share the (obvious?) fact that unemployment can happen to Boalties too.

p.s.--you're welcome if I just introduced you to nuts & boalts. Commence blog archive reading now .

[pkt63]

Hey guys - we just got the sign-up sheet to host a new admit. You should be getting info on bunking with current law students soon!

Not to be impatient, but anyone know anymore about this? Would love to take advantage, but haven't heard anything yet. TIA!

[pkt63]

http://boaltalk.blogspot.com/2011/03/ug ... stics.html



Well, not completely . Just thought I'd share the (obvious?) fact that unemployment can happen to Boalties too.

p.s.--you're welcome if I just introduced you to nuts & boalts. Commence blog archive reading now .

Yikes. I knew the "state of the legal market," but it makes it even more discouraging when it's an alum of the school you will probably go to, and they had good grades and activities and are working harder to find a job than I can picture myself doing. Granted, we all know the economy should be "better" to some degree by the time we grad in 2014...and I've seen projections that the legal market should pick up some by then, too, but regardless of the state of the economy, the legal profession itself clearly has some issues.

I found this funny though: "Basically, they count anything: part time work, contract work, non-legal work, movie theater work, prostitution, even patent law." Like patent law is a notch below prostition.

[r6_philly]

Hey guys - we just got the sign-up sheet to host a new admit. You should be getting info on bunking with current law students soon!

Not to be impatient, but anyone know anymore about this? Would love to take advantage, but haven't heard anything yet. TIA!

The Admissions Blog has a new post indicating the Queer Caucus are offering student hosts. So I wonder if they will offer student hosts to every admit or only LGBT.

[sarahh]

I found the part about being turned down for a volunteer position especially scary.

[boalt2l]

2L here, just wanted to add that there are many people who face similar situations and I have heard many stories like that post.

Re: The legal market being better for your class. This is highly unlikely, all the large firms are so backlogged with delayed associates, and there is an abundance of mid-level talent to hire so that entry level talent is no longer as desirable. Remember that when you graduate you will be competing with people who graduated from the last 3 years, so the traffic jam is likely to get heavier.

The career office has already sent an email stating that the OCI for our current 1ls will be basically the same as the 2l one at best. I just want everyone to know that you are placing a pretty large 200k gamble, and that there is at least a decent likelihood you may be graduating begging for volunteer work. That said, look forward to seeing you all at ASW, and nothing I said about Boalt does not apply to many of the other top schools, just understand what a big risk you are taking by choosing to attend law school (not specifically Boalt).

[r6_philly]

I found the part about being turned down for a volunteer position especially scary.

Why? The analogy in the post shows that the poster knows little about managing an organization and hiring. Just because it is free doesn't mean it is worth the trouble.

[pkt63]

... and there is an abundance of mid-level talent to hire so that entry level talent is no longer as desirable.

Why is that necessarily true? Of course, mid-levels have more experience, but entry-levels are cheaper. As a hiring manager myself, I have seen that sometimes the former is more attractive, sometimes the latter, depending on the need of the office. Are you convinced that these firms will be thirsting much more for experience and have $$ to blow?

[powerlawyer06]

2L here, just wanted to add that there are many people who face similar situations and I have heard many stories like that post.

Re: The legal market being better for your class. This is highly unlikely, all the large firms are so backlogged with delayed associates, and there is an abundance of mid-level talent to hire so that entry level talent is no longer as desirable. Remember that when you graduate you will be competing with people who graduated from the last 3 years, so the traffic jam is likely to get heavier.

The career office has already sent an email stating that the OCI for our current 1ls will be basically the same as the 2l one at best. I just want everyone to know that you are placing a pretty large 200k gamble, and that there is at least a decent likelihood you may be graduating begging for volunteer work. That said, look forward to seeing you all at ASW, and nothing I said about Boalt does not apply to many of the other top schools, just understand what a big risk you are taking by choosing to attend law school (not specifically Boalt).

I am just wondering if you are trying to give sound advice or if you just have sour grapes because you are graduating at the worst possible time?

There is no way you have any idea what the big law hiring market will be like when the class of 2014 graduates. No one should consider your conjectures about future law firm hiring as any kind of an indication of whether or not they should attend law school.

The market may be worse and we could all be searching for a job at graduation or it could be much better. There could be a huge expansion in the economy and the law market could expand dramatically (this historically happens after recessions). We could also go into a so called “double dip” recession and things could be much worse. The point is you have no idea what will happen and neither do we.

[r6_philly]

... and there is an abundance of mid-level talent to hire so that entry level talent is no longer as desirable.

Why is that necessarily true? Of course, mid-levels have more experience, but entry-levels are cheaper. As a hiring manager myself, I have seen that sometimes the former is more attractive, sometimes the latter, depending on the need of the office. Are you convinced that these firms will be thirsting much more for experience and have $$ to blow?

I second this. Also many of the openings are also designed to be entry level - it fits the designed progression. Just because they have annual hiring shouldn't necessarily translate into those being open to mid-level talents. Think of how Japanese career system works, just not as extreme.

[boalt2l]

The last three years of graduate talent are entry level and would be happy to work for entry level salary anywhere, there is only going to be a further accumulation of these talents in two years, willing to work for anything.

Also to the hiring manager: I cannot believe someone with a job as awesome as that would consider going to law school. I'm shocked at how many people throw away 60k+ jobs to come to school. I would be in heaven if i could land a job paying 50k, as well as a sizeable portion of my classmates (including those with good grades). I'm not sour grapes about graduating at "the worst possible time", my only option other than law school was living with my parents and collecting more unemployment, so I'm still happy about my choice. Rather than trying to rationalize that these stories will not happen to you, I think future students need to make an informed decision that there is a solid probability that no matter how well you do, you can end up unemployed.

Lastly, on mid-level talent. Rather than focus on Japanese systems of business which have nothing to do with the law, many of the career office lectures describe a fundamental shift of the legal market away from entry level talent. As a graduate, you do not know anything and are a burden to whoever trains you. Firms no longer have huge resources to waste on this talent, and would rather pay slightly more (pay bumps in firms are not significant) for someone with 3-5 years experience.

Anyways, I just find it shocking how people are willing to leave awesome jobs for an education which may land you begging a prosecutor to clean his toilet for free, I just don't get it.

[r6_philly]

Lastly, on mid-level talent. Rather than focus on Japanese systems of business which have nothing to do with the law, many of the career office lectures describe a fundamental shift of the legal market away from entry level talent. As a graduate, you do not know anything and are a burden to whoever trains you. Firms no longer have huge resources to waste on this talent, and would rather pay slightly more (pay bumps in firms are not significant) for someone with 3-5 years experience.

Many people involved with hiring, including me, would rather hire entry-level talent at entry-level salaries (over mid-level). I am not talking specifically about legal hiring, but the organizational dynamics should be about the same in any profession. If you don't pay mid-level rate for mid-level talent, you risk upsetting the balance at the work place. You have to think like a hiring manager, not an outside observer.

[sarahh]

I can imagine PI organizations preferring people with experience, but I thought biglaw wanted young, inexperienced people that they could mold? I do wonder if people at Berkeley are worse off than those at peer schools. My understanding is that the San Francisco legal market is small and very competitive and that government hiring is non-existent. (Not that things are all sunshine and roses elsewhere, but the economy in California was especially hard hit.) And the school is pretty far away from NYC and the other legal markets on the east coast. I mentioned to my father, who is a lawyer, that if Berkeley matched my scholarship offer from Michigan, I would consider going there, and he told me that if I go to Berkeley I will be stuck in California and that east coast firms do not hire Berkeley students. He said he felt that Michigan was a much better choice. He does not work for a firm himself, so I don't think he is the best authority on legal hiring, but I would imagine that Berkeley students would find it harder to get a job on the east coast than students in schools on the east coast, especially Berkeley students that are from the west coast and do not have ties back east. Any current students want to chime in about this?

[bilbobaggins]

Lots of speculation and misinformation happening.

First of all, this year's OCIP was better than last year's. Firms have restructured how they hire summers and they're generally giving out a higher percentage of offers. While you may be technically competing with lawyers who have been out 2-3 years, it is typical for firms to prefer more recent grads to lawyers who have not been able to find decent work and are a few years out of school. This is how most biglaw firms hire.

As for PI work, I know people who are able to get good PI jobs all over the country. Berkeley has a national reach and you can certainly place into NYC biglaw or PI from Boalt.

The poster on Nuts and Boalts is a good guy, but N&B needs to be taken with a grain of salt and Dan's story is fairly particular to his experience- graduating at the worst time ever, getting no offered from after working at a firm as a 2L and then applying for jobs where he was certainly not the best qualified Boalt student. These things all matter.

The job search might not be easy for everyone, but Boalt is a stellar institution with a great reach. You'll encounter any of these struggles at just about any other school.

[r6_philly]

While you may be technically competing with lawyers who have been out 2-3 years, it is typical for firms to prefer more recent grads to lawyers who have not been able to find decent work and are a few years out of school. This is how most biglaw firms hire.

This is not unique to biglaw. It is also the same mechanism in other industries. There are immense advantages to this structure, it must be even more rigid in law hiring.

graduating at the worst time ever, getting no offered from after working at a firm as a 2L and then applying for jobs where he was certainly not the best qualified Boalt student

I don't think the "sky is falling" readers are going to be this rational. If they truly understood/grasped the intricacies in getting a job in any industry/economy they wouldn't really be swayed by a blog post or 10. 50% of graduates don't land biglaw jobs pre-ITE; unemployment rate is going to be what 1-5% at least in any class? There is no way to know if any of these stories are told by people who wouldn't have a job in any economy (class rank is not the only indicator of employability).

I have to agree with you the Boalt-hate is almost unbearable on this forum. People should make rational decisions based on their own situations.

[powerlawyer06]

I have to agree with you the Boalt-hate is almost unbearable on this forum. People should make rational decisions based on their own situations.

+1

[BackToTheOldHouse]

I have to agree with you the Boalt-hate is almost unbearable on this forum. People should make rational decisions based on their own situations.

+1

While I agree in general that there is a lot of Boalt hate on TLS, r6_philly and powerlawyer06, do you see any boalt hate ITT? It seems that boalt2L is speaking from experience as a boalt student, not necessarily as a boalt hater. That doesn't mean that his anecdotal evidence should have people withdrawing their applications from Berkeley, but I don't think his input is meaningless or even harmful.

I could be way off here . . .