Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

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Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:47 pm

Hey All,

I was accepted to Harvard and Yale - trying to weigh the pros and cons of choosing one over the other

Thanks!

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby Wubbles » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:53 pm

Yale

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby ReganSays » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:56 pm

Yale

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby omgomghi » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:20 pm

I am in the same boat. I am choosing Harvard -- there are absolutely reasons to do so. PM me if you want to chat.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby Wild Card » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:56 am

Yale is supremely prestigious. You enjoy the presumption of extreme intelligence and work ethic as a YLS grad.

An HLS degree is just another law degree, unless you do particularly well, which isn't guaranteed.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby SomewhatLearnedHand » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:17 am

Wild Card wrote:Yale is supremely prestigious. You enjoy the presumption of extreme intelligence and work ethic as a YLS grad.

An HLS degree is just another law degree, unless you do particularly well, which isn't guaranteed.


Lol idk who, aside from only the most insufferable of prestige whores, considers HLS to be "just another law degree." That said, I do agree that Yale is regarded as a cut above.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby Npret » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:01 pm

Yale. It’s not even close. I would go to Yale just for their great loan repayment program if nothing else. I can’t think of any reason to take Harvard here.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby Npret » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:02 pm

SomewhatLearnedHand wrote:
Wild Card wrote:Yale is supremely prestigious. You enjoy the presumption of extreme intelligence and work ethic as a YLS grad.

An HLS degree is just another law degree, unless you do particularly well, which isn't guaranteed.


Lol idk who, aside from only the most insufferable of prestige whores, considers HLS to be "just another law degree." That said, I do agree that Yale is regarded as a cut above.


I think they mean many Harvard grads end up with the same jobs as everyone else, at least more than Yale grads.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby Dcc617 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:40 pm

What are your career goals, what is the cost of attendance at each, how are you paying, are there other factors (like family) impacting your decision, etc.? It’s impossible to advise you without more info.

Also, disregard whatever 0Ls on here say. They have no what they’re talking about.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby esther0123 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:32 pm

The two schools have a very different culture from what I gather from my YLS friends and having gone to HLS myself. I think if you perform well at HLS (higher end of cum laude / magna+) and are well-connected (either by family connections or through your own effort), then having gone to HLS versus YLS doesn't have that much of a difference in terms of obtaining extra-elite jobs, such as AUSA, Big Fed, elite boutiques, clerkships, etc.

However, a median HLS student has less options than a median YLS student, and maybe this is in part because YLS obscures class rank much better than HLS does (not to mention YLS's inherent rarity due to its much smaller class size). Not only does YLS not have grades in 1L first semester, class curves are nearly non-existent, and the school's culture is more connection/network-oriented. In contrast, HLS, although its rank might be more obscured than schools like CLS with "real" grades, in effect have grades for anyone who understands the difference between LP, P, H, DS. Blackletter classes still retain curve even after 1L, and 1L classes, needless to say, are all curved. The fact that HLS has Latin Honors upon graduation also reinforces the idea that there are "ranks," although less clear to the public but not that hard to decipher for those who know (including employers).

The culture in HLS is also more geared towards more "practical" and "traditional" job routes, namely Big Law, and to smaller extent, Big Fed. In YLS, I think an average student tends to have loftier goals, and tends towards more an academic/cerebral bent... which is suitable for academia/appellate practice, but less desirable for Big Law and trial practice.

In the end, I think YLS provides you with more of a cushion, but if you do well at HLS, your options are not substantially limited. HLS does better in black letter law, while still offering enough room for philosophizing, whereas YLS well give you its version of what law "should" be. In my experience, the latter kind of experience isn't always the best thing, post-school, but again, I obviously have some stake in this YLS v. HLS battle :-P. But Congrats OP!!

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby Vursz » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:06 pm

YLS grad here, so potentially biased, but in my opinion Yale and it’s not close.

If you want to clerk, there is quite simply no better place to be. Full stop. And in terms of biglaw, your biggest hurdle will be convincing firms you’re interested in “normal” legal work. You can get a V20 firm from virtually anywhere in the class. And if public interest is your goal, Yale has more fellowships per capita and better loan repayment than any other school.

I could imagine choosing HLS if your politics are right-of-center and you’re looking for faculty mentors (I lean conservative and missed this somewhat at YLS) but overall I’m absolutely delighted I went to Yale and loved my time there. I never thought law school could be such a joyful and engaging experience.

(OP or anyone else is welcome to PM me)

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby 10b5 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:45 pm

Wild Card wrote:Yale is supremely prestigious. You enjoy the presumption of extreme intelligence and work ethic as a YLS grad.

An HLS degree is just another law degree, unless you do particularly well, which isn't guaranteed.


Do people seriously believe this crap? Or are you so biased you'll post total nonsense, in spite of the real life effect it might have on people trying to make actual decisions?

HLS and YLS are both amazing institutions with similarly brilliant people, that have chosen to cultivate different cultures. If the geekier types of legal careers appeal more to you, then YLS is undoubtedly the better choice. If biglaw, business or electoral politics get you going, HLS is for you. If lay prestige and random people freaking out in random cities over your class of 2022 sweatshirt makes you happy, HLS is for you. I know I get a kick out of it, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. The network is unparalleled, broad and deep. I don't know of anyone with a bad outcome from either school, and I know a wide selection from both.

The only way to approach the decision is to go to ASWs, reach out to alums doing the things you think you might want to be doing in 5 or 10 years time, and PM verified current students for an honest take on administrative support, culture, and student life.

But you literally cannot go wrong either way, so congratulations!

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby Wumbo » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:16 am

HLS and it's not even close. Both will give you great outcomes, so you might as well go to the one that gives you more signaling value, which is Harvard by a mile. Step outside the US, and people might have heard of Yale, but tell them you go to Harvard and they'll treat you like a god. Stay inside the US, and any non-lawyer will have a similar reaction. Hell, ask any lawyer who isn't privy to the US news rankings or doesn't do biglaw and they'll still likely think Harvard is no. 1.

The classic arguments for YLS being better for "academia" and certain unicorn public interest jobs are pretty weak; the truth that nobody likes to admit is that most Yale grads don't become profs and couldn't even if they wanted (most profs are obviously not Yale grads, but even if all of them were, there's still not even enough prof job openings each year for more than a 1/3 of the class to take), so making a decision based off that is about as rational as going to HLS because it will increase your odds of making it to congress.

Also, a lot of the risk averse arguments against HLS (aka fear of striking out because of the big class size and/or potentially getting LPs, not getting Latin honors) don't apply to transfer students. Your transcript will be pristine, making it easy for you to get a job, and getting Latin honors (which doesn't matter anyway) as a transfer is easy at HLS if you take a YLS-style curriculum (i.e. seminars, clinicals, and anything without a forced curve). Also, fwiw, HLS grads make more money at mid career on average than those of any law or business school, including, of course, YLS grads (yes, that's because most do biglaw, but most YLS grads do biglaw too).


(This is obviously too late to have any impact in this decision, but I still felt obliged to balance out the homerism in this thread).

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby QContinuum » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:38 pm

Wumbo wrote:HLS and it's not even close. Both will give you great outcomes, so you might as well go to the one that gives you more signaling value, which is Harvard by a mile.


This is simply wrong. Both are great schools, but Yale Law is a clear step above Harvard, both in prestige and in placement into the most competitive legal positions (clerking, academia, lit boutiques).

Wumbo wrote:Step outside the US, and people might have heard of Yale, but tell them you go to Harvard and they'll treat you like a god. Stay inside the US, and any non-lawyer will have a similar reaction.


I'll concede HLS may have the edge for certain (not all) positions outside the U.S., but we have no evidence OP intends to work abroad. Within the U.S., anyone in a position to hire a HLS/YLS grad will know that Yale's tops. What the layperson on the street thinks about Harvard College vs. Yale College is completely irrelevant.

Wumbo wrote:The classic arguments for YLS being better for "academia" and certain unicorn public interest jobs are pretty weak; the truth that nobody likes to admit is that most Yale grads don't become profs and couldn't even if they wanted (most profs are obviously not Yale grads, but even if all of them were, there's still not even enough prof job openings each year for more than a 1/3 of the class to take), so making a decision based off that is about as rational as going to HLS because it will increase your odds of making it to congress.


YLS is not only better for academia and unicorn PI; it's also hugely better for clerking and placement into the most sought-after firms (highly relevant for most of the class). YLS also offers better downside protection: the bottom 10% at HLS don't have it easy; the bottom 10% at YLS can't even be identified.

YLS further offers better downside protection in another way: Its LRAP is the best in the business. HLS', OTOH, is reputed to be particularly restrictive in terms of which jobs qualify.

Wumbo wrote:Also, a lot of the risk averse arguments against HLS (aka fear of striking out because of the big class size and/or potentially getting LPs, not getting Latin honors) don't apply to transfer students.


Except the risk averse arguments do apply, if the transfer student is interested in clerking or academia or PI, or wants the added security of YLS' super-flexible LRAP.

I hope the OP chose Yale. It's not even close.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby Wumbo » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:30 am

QContinuum wrote:
Wumbo wrote:HLS and it's not even close. Both will give you great outcomes, so you might as well go to the one that gives you more signaling value, which is Harvard by a mile.


This is simply wrong. Both are great schools, but Yale Law is a clear step above Harvard, both in prestige and in placement into the most competitive legal positions (clerking, academia, lit boutiques).


Maybe this is on me for not explaining myself properly, but that has nothing to do with what I said. I never said YLS wasn't better for a certain legal jobs, just that those are bad reasons for choosing it (since, for example, the odds of doing academia are extremely low anyway, and OP is realistically not becoming a prof unless he has a PhD as well).

QContinuum wrote:
I'll concede HLS may have the edge for certain (not all) positions outside the U.S., but we have no evidence OP intends to work abroad. Within the U.S., anyone in a position to hire a HLS/YLS grad will know that Yale's tops. What the layperson on the street thinks about Harvard College vs. Yale College is completely irrelevant.


It's not a matter of what the layperson on the street thinks about the colleges (I clarify that in the next sentence that you left out of the quote). It's what 99% of the population (including many lawyers) thinks or assumes about HLS over YLS. It's also wrong that "anyone in a position to hire a HLS/YLS grad will know that Yale's tops," because the truth of the matter is that most law students don't even really want to practice law long term (50% don't ever practice), and HLS gives a huge boost for non-legal employers (who will either assume HLS is tops, or correctly assume that their clients assume that).

QContinuum wrote:
Wumbo wrote:The classic arguments for YLS being better for "academia" and certain unicorn public interest jobs are pretty weak; the truth that nobody likes to admit is that most Yale grads don't become profs and couldn't even if they wanted (most profs are obviously not Yale grads, but even if all of them were, there's still not even enough prof job openings each year for more than a 1/3 of the class to take), so making a decision based off that is about as rational as going to HLS because it will increase your odds of making it to congress.


YLS is not only better for academia and unicorn PI; it's also hugely better for clerking and placement into the most sought-after firms (highly relevant for most of the class). YLS also offers better downside protection: the bottom 10% at HLS don't have it easy; the bottom 10% at YLS can't even be identified.

YLS further offers better downside protection in another way: Its LRAP is the best in the business. HLS', OTOH, is reputed to be particularly restrictive in terms of which jobs qualify.


These are all good arguments for choosing YLS as a 0L, not as a transfer. I already explained why downside risk is irrelevant for a transfer (I would venture to say that no transfer student has ever graduated in the bottom 10% of HLS due to the lack of LPs in upper level classes, and even if they did it wouldn't matter anyway for jobs).

The clerkships that YLS provides the biggest an advantage for are the ones that are way less in reach for transfers, especially (but not exclusively) in cycles with early hiring given the importance of making connections early in 1L with profs and student orgs.

Also, to borrow your phrase, we have no evidence that OP wants to do litigation. If OP wants to so corporate (which has better exit opportunities both in and outside of law), the marginal benefit of lit boutique and clerkship odds is irrelevant.

QContinuum wrote:
Wumbo wrote:Also, a lot of the risk averse arguments against HLS (aka fear of striking out because of the big class size and/or potentially getting LPs, not getting Latin honors) don't apply to transfer students.


Except the risk averse arguments do apply, if the transfer student is interested in clerking or academia or PI, or wants the added security of YLS' super-flexible LRAP.

I hope the OP chose Yale. It's not even close.


There is no such thing as a sensible risk averse argument for academia, nor for unicorn PI jobs. Besides, my point was in reference to the downside protection you referenced earlier, which again, doesn't apply.

I dont know enough about LRAP to compare with LIPP at HLS. I only know that the latter is still an extremely safe option.

Regardless of what OP chose, they're obviously not going to struggle. I stand by my comment that HLS would generally have been better, though.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby JohnnieSockran » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:05 pm

I was really hoping Wumbo was being sarcastic....

And yes, 99.9% of employers hiring a YLS or HLS grad are aware that Yale is the better and more prestigious school. If you don't understand that, then you've been living under a rock.

Why does it matter that only 50% of law students ever go on to practice law? We're not talking about ALL law students. I guarantee that the percentage of HLS/YLS students that go on to practice law is well, well above 50%.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby QContinuum » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:47 pm

JohnnieSockran wrote:I was really hoping Wumbo was being sarcastic....

And yes, 99.9% of employers hiring a YLS or HLS grad are aware that Yale is the better and more prestigious school. If you don't understand that, then you've been living under a rock.

Why does it matter that only 50% of law students ever go on to practice law? We're not talking about ALL law students. I guarantee that the percentage of HLS/YLS students that go on to practice law is well, well above 50%.


Based on Wumbo's other posts, it looks like he's a HLS student who isn't planning on practicing law. Instead, he wants to become a full-time LSAT tutor. Which, nothing against LSAT tutors!, but decidedly isn't the kind of career path sought after by 99.9% of T13 graduates. I agree that in Wumbo's highly atypical situation, Harvard College's lay prestige may help with his marketing/branding to pre-law students and their parents (although I really think he'd get the same advantage with Yale College's lay prestige).

I think Wumbo's main mistake is conflating his own unique career goals with those of the typical HLS/YLS student. For anyone actually wishing to practice law, YLS has a substantial edge over HLS.

Wumbo wrote:Also, to borrow your phrase, we have no evidence that OP wants to do litigation. If OP wants to so corporate (which has better exit opportunities both in and outside of law), the marginal benefit of lit boutique and clerkship odds is irrelevant.


In the absence of evidence, we must assume OP's a typical law student. Very, very few J.D. students plan to immediately work outside the U.S. in the type of position where Harvard College's lay prestige would confer an advantage. So absent further information, we shouldn't assume OP wants to do that. But OTOH, the typical law student - esp. the typical 1L - wants to do lit (whether BigLaw or PI). 1Ls generally have zero idea what transactional law even entails. So it's very reasonable to consider and compare clerkship placement rates between YLS and HLS, esp. when they differ so dramatically.

Wumbo wrote:There is no such thing as a sensible risk averse argument for academia, nor for unicorn PI jobs. Besides, my point was in reference to the downside protection you referenced earlier, which again, doesn't apply.


The risk minimization point applies to YLS' better placement across the board - into PI, into academia, into clerkships, into the best law firms and boutiques. It also reflects YLS' legendarily flexible LRAP, which protects even those students who decide they don't want to practice law at all post-graduation.

And risk minimization absolutely applies to transfer students. The typical transfer student does not have a BigLaw/clerkship offer in hand when deciding whether to accept a transfer offer. Thus, assuming equal need-based aid and assuming no family-imposed demands, it makes sense to go to the best-placing school possible.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby Wumbo » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:15 pm

JohnnieSockran wrote:I was really hoping Wumbo was being sarcastic....

And yes, 99.9% of employers hiring a YLS or HLS grad are aware that Yale is the better and more prestigious school. If you don't understand that, then you've been living under a rock.

Why does it matter that only 50% of law students ever go on to practice law? We're not talking about ALL law students. I guarantee that the percentage of HLS/YLS students that go on to practice law is well, well above 50%.


I was exaggerating and slightly sarcastic, for sure, and tying the 50% not practicing was definitely a reach, but it's not a trivial point. Surveys of HLS grads show a bunch leave the law even within a few years after graduation, which means they'll be interviewing with people outside the law, virtually all of whom will assume it's a better and more prestigious school than YLS. There's a reason it produces more CEOs than any other school besides HBS, and its grads make more than any other grad school overall. Focusing on clerkship numbers and academia rates alone is myopic at best.

I'll also just point out that I made a bunch of arguments in my post aside from the 50% number. I'm not quite sure why that's what you would focus on.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby JohnnieSockran » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:46 pm

Wumbo wrote:
JohnnieSockran wrote:I was really hoping Wumbo was being sarcastic....

And yes, 99.9% of employers hiring a YLS or HLS grad are aware that Yale is the better and more prestigious school. If you don't understand that, then you've been living under a rock.

Why does it matter that only 50% of law students ever go on to practice law? We're not talking about ALL law students. I guarantee that the percentage of HLS/YLS students that go on to practice law is well, well above 50%.


I was exaggerating and slightly sarcastic, for sure, and tying the 50% not practicing was definitely a reach, but it's not a trivial point. Surveys of HLS grads show a bunch leave the law even within a few years after graduation, which means they'll be interviewing with people outside the law, virtually all of whom will assume it's a better and more prestigious school than YLS. There's a reason it produces more CEOs than any other school besides HBS, and its grads make more than any other grad school overall. Focusing on clerkship numbers and academia rates alone is myopic at best.

I'll also just point out that I made a bunch of arguments in my post aside from the 50% number. I'm not quite sure why that's what you would focus on.


Because your claims aren't worth addressing. You're clearly an interested party, but YLS is clearly the better school. You keep throwing out random examples as proof, that are constantly wrong, and since I don't feel like wasting the time to pick apart everything you wrote, here's just one example:

Comparing the number of CEOs from HLS vs. YLS is flawed because the pools of people are astronomically different in size. YLS typically has classes of 200. HLS has classes that approach 600. That's a huge number, so there are a lot more HLS grads out on the market (again, actually adding to the prestige/value of a degree from YLS). Further, that argument (incorrectly) assumes that the YLS grads aim to be CEOs just as frequently as HLS grads, which also is not the case.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby Wumbo » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:01 pm

JohnnieSockran wrote:
Wumbo wrote:
JohnnieSockran wrote:I was really hoping Wumbo was being sarcastic....

And yes, 99.9% of employers hiring a YLS or HLS grad are aware that Yale is the better and more prestigious school. If you don't understand that, then you've been living under a rock.

Why does it matter that only 50% of law students ever go on to practice law? We're not talking about ALL law students. I guarantee that the percentage of HLS/YLS students that go on to practice law is well, well above 50%.


I was exaggerating and slightly sarcastic, for sure, and tying the 50% not practicing was definitely a reach, but it's not a trivial point. Surveys of HLS grads show a bunch leave the law even within a few years after graduation, which means they'll be interviewing with people outside the law, virtually all of whom will assume it's a better and more prestigious school than YLS. There's a reason it produces more CEOs than any other school besides HBS, and its grads make more than any other grad school overall. Focusing on clerkship numbers and academia rates alone is myopic at best.

I'll also just point out that I made a bunch of arguments in my post aside from the 50% number. I'm not quite sure why that's what you would focus on.


Because your claims aren't worth addressing. You're clearly an interested party, but YLS is clearly the better school. You keep throwing out random examples as proof, that are constantly wrong, and since I don't feel like wasting the time to pick apart everything you wrote, here's just one example:

Comparing the number of CEOs from HLS vs. YLS is flawed because the pools of people are astronomically different in size. YLS typically has classes of 200. HLS has classes that approach 600. That's a huge number, so there are a lot more HLS grads out on the market (again, actually adding to the prestige/value of a degree from YLS). Further, that argument (incorrectly) assumes that the YLS grads aim to be CEOs just as frequently as HLS grads, which also is not the case.


Nice try, but your one example is unfortunately total garbage, and supports my argument. HLS has 9 times as many CEOs as YLS, not 3, which means HLS grads are 3 times overrepresented even when controlling for class size. The second half of your argument, that YLS grads don't want to become CEOs, is just a baseless assertion with no evidence, which I could easily do the same for re clerkships or academia.

I'll concede CEOs are a unique case ( so is academia, but people bring that up all the time), but again, that wasn't the crux of my argument, just what you decided to respond to.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby JohnnieSockran » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:07 pm

Wumbo wrote:
JohnnieSockran wrote:
Wumbo wrote:
JohnnieSockran wrote:I was really hoping Wumbo was being sarcastic....

And yes, 99.9% of employers hiring a YLS or HLS grad are aware that Yale is the better and more prestigious school. If you don't understand that, then you've been living under a rock.

Why does it matter that only 50% of law students ever go on to practice law? We're not talking about ALL law students. I guarantee that the percentage of HLS/YLS students that go on to practice law is well, well above 50%.


I was exaggerating and slightly sarcastic, for sure, and tying the 50% not practicing was definitely a reach, but it's not a trivial point. Surveys of HLS grads show a bunch leave the law even within a few years after graduation, which means they'll be interviewing with people outside the law, virtually all of whom will assume it's a better and more prestigious school than YLS. There's a reason it produces more CEOs than any other school besides HBS, and its grads make more than any other grad school overall. Focusing on clerkship numbers and academia rates alone is myopic at best.

I'll also just point out that I made a bunch of arguments in my post aside from the 50% number. I'm not quite sure why that's what you would focus on.


Because your claims aren't worth addressing. You're clearly an interested party, but YLS is clearly the better school. You keep throwing out random examples as proof, that are constantly wrong, and since I don't feel like wasting the time to pick apart everything you wrote, here's just one example:

Comparing the number of CEOs from HLS vs. YLS is flawed because the pools of people are astronomically different in size. YLS typically has classes of 200. HLS has classes that approach 600. That's a huge number, so there are a lot more HLS grads out on the market (again, actually adding to the prestige/value of a degree from YLS). Further, that argument (incorrectly) assumes that the YLS grads aim to be CEOs just as frequently as HLS grads, which also is not the case.


Nice try, but your one example is unfortunately total garbage, and supports my argument. HLS has 9 times as many CEOs as YLS, not 3, which means HLS grads are 3 times overrepresented even when controlling for class size. The second half of your argument, that YLS grads don't want to become CEOs, is just a baseless assertion with no evidence, which I could easily do the same for re clerkships or academia.

I'll concede CEOs are a unique case ( so is academia, but people bring that up all the time), but again, that wasn't the crux of my argument, just what you decided to respond to.


The crux of your argument is "go to Harvard because the non-legal world respects the name if you ever want to leave law or the US, and then your ego can be stroked by random strangers, just as they do for me because I went to Harvard. Hey, did I mention I'm a Harvard grad?"

However, that claim is just as baseless and lacking in evidence, and YLS clearly offers the better outcome for becoming a lawyer (for many reasons, but the most glaring is that every YLS student has a shot at the best law firms in the world, even the bottom of the class), even if that fact bruises your fragile ego about the school you chose to attend.

The OP making this decision should not listen to Wumbo's claims, because Wumbo is far from a traditional student and is planning to use the HLS degree to impress strangers abroad and to become an LSAT tutor. OP may have other reasons to choose HLS, but should decide that by PMing others who have made that choice.

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby QContinuum » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:11 pm

Wumbo wrote:
JohnnieSockran wrote:
Wumbo wrote:
JohnnieSockran wrote:I was really hoping Wumbo was being sarcastic....

And yes, 99.9% of employers hiring a YLS or HLS grad are aware that Yale is the better and more prestigious school. If you don't understand that, then you've been living under a rock.

Why does it matter that only 50% of law students ever go on to practice law? We're not talking about ALL law students. I guarantee that the percentage of HLS/YLS students that go on to practice law is well, well above 50%.


I was exaggerating and slightly sarcastic, for sure, and tying the 50% not practicing was definitely a reach, but it's not a trivial point. Surveys of HLS grads show a bunch leave the law even within a few years after graduation, which means they'll be interviewing with people outside the law, virtually all of whom will assume it's a better and more prestigious school than YLS. There's a reason it produces more CEOs than any other school besides HBS, and its grads make more than any other grad school overall. Focusing on clerkship numbers and academia rates alone is myopic at best.

I'll also just point out that I made a bunch of arguments in my post aside from the 50% number. I'm not quite sure why that's what you would focus on.


Because your claims aren't worth addressing. You're clearly an interested party, but YLS is clearly the better school. You keep throwing out random examples as proof, that are constantly wrong, and since I don't feel like wasting the time to pick apart everything you wrote, here's just one example:

Comparing the number of CEOs from HLS vs. YLS is flawed because the pools of people are astronomically different in size. YLS typically has classes of 200. HLS has classes that approach 600. That's a huge number, so there are a lot more HLS grads out on the market (again, actually adding to the prestige/value of a degree from YLS). Further, that argument (incorrectly) assumes that the YLS grads aim to be CEOs just as frequently as HLS grads, which also is not the case.


Nice try, but your one example is unfortunately total garbage, and supports my argument. HLS has 9 times as many CEOs as YLS, not 3, which means HLS grads are 3 times overrepresented even when controlling for class size. The second half of your argument, that YLS grads don't want to become CEOs, is just a baseless assertion with no evidence, which I could easily do the same for re clerkships or academia.

I'll concede CEOs are a unique case ( so is academia, but people bring that up all the time), but again, that wasn't the crux of my argument, just what you decided to respond to.


Using CEO numbers as a comparison metric is fatally flawed because 1) they're extraordinarily rare (and thus extraordinarily unlikely for any given student), to the extent they make Supreme Court clerkships and unicorn PI positions look plentiful; 2) the vast majority of law students don't even want to become CEOs (otherwise they'd attend b-school instead); 3) many law students actually aspire to Supreme Court clerkships, unicorn PI, or academia - I'd go as far as to say a plurality of YLS students desire and actively strive to land such positions.

Wumbo

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby Wumbo » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:32 pm

Q, did you delete my response to you, or did it never go through?

QContinuum

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby QContinuum » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:35 pm

Wumbo wrote:Q, did you delete my response to you, or did it never go through?


I didn't delete (or edit) any of your posts ITT.

JohnnieSockran

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Re: Accepted to Harvard and Yale - Which One?

Postby JohnnieSockran » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:46 pm

Is there a feature for deleting/editing other users' posts? Lol that could make for some great strawman arguments (literally).



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