TTT graduate who turned down T14 transfer opportunity. AMA.

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TTT graduate who turned down T14 transfer opportunity. AMA.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:22 pm

Figured i'd offer some advice to people who might be considering transfering over the next month. I know conventional wisdom is to jump ship, but I took the opposite approach and stayed at my TTT and couldn't be happier with my decision.

This site helped tremendously with making my decision, so just want to give back and help others who might be in the same or similar position.

kengh

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Re: TTT graduate who turned down T14 transfer opportunity. AMA.

Postby kengh » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:25 pm

What schools did you turn down and why?

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Re: TTT graduate who turned down T14 transfer opportunity. AMA.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:38 pm

kengh wrote:What schools did you turn down and why?


OP here.

CLS. There were a whole host of reasons, but it boiled down to money and opportunity.

I had a full-ride at my school, and CLS was going to set me back 150k-200k for two years. I had always been debt averse, so this was really the primary reason. Truth be told though, I would have taken on the debt if I thought it gave me a significantly better opportunity at Big law; I eventually figured out that it wouldn't. The 150k-200k debt just wasn't worth it for me, even though I wanted nothing more than to attend a top law school for most of my life.

Secondary reasons were that I had plan b's in place incase big law didn't materialize, and I valued the relationships I had at my school more than I could have imagined when starting school.

BOSStongrl

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Re: TTT graduate who turned down T14 transfer opportunity. AMA.

Postby BOSStongrl » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:01 pm

Has it ever crossed your mind that you should drop out after realizing the job prospects out of a T3? I'm in a similar situation, and trying to get into a T14 or at least low T1, but i'm not sure what I should do if I don't get in. Although i'm top 5% I still have doubts about the outcome. And even though I have a full ride I still take on 30k (with interest) for living expenses each year and the starting, average, salary from my school is around 60k (in the NYC area no less). It's starting to seem more and more like a $90k gamble that i'll be one of the few that will get biglaw to pay it off. Just wondering what your thoughts were since you are also trying to avoid debt and decided to stay

Lolstudent

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Re: TTT graduate who turned down T14 transfer opportunity. AMA.

Postby Lolstudent » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:31 pm

BOSStongrl wrote:Has it ever crossed your mind that you should drop out after realizing the job prospects out of a T3? I'm in a similar situation, and trying to get into a T14 or at least low T1, but i'm not sure what I should do if I don't get in. Although i'm top 5% I still have doubts about the outcome. And even though I have a full ride I still take on 30k (with interest) for living expenses each year and the starting, average, salary from my school is around 60k (in the NYC area no less). It's starting to seem more and more like a $90k gamble that i'll be one of the few that will get biglaw to pay it off. Just wondering what your thoughts were since you are also trying to avoid debt and decided to stay


I definitely can relate.

I'm at a low T2 and although I'm top 5%, it seems like there are only 5-10 great outcomes a year from my school. By great outcomes I mean big law or federal clerkships. That's not to say that there aren't good opportunities available as far as local/state government jobs, public interest jobs, etc., but I'm really looking to go either big fed, academia, partner track big law, or something of that caliber. I'm nervous too.

The T2/T3 gamble can certainly pay off if you graduate with $0-90K and end up with big law. But that "if" is a very large if.

I personally will transfer if I get into Harvard, Boalt, or UCHI.

Good luck to all. OP, let's hear more about your situation.

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Re: TTT graduate who turned down T14 transfer opportunity. AMA.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:45 pm

Lolstudent wrote:
BOSStongrl wrote:Has it ever crossed your mind that you should drop out after realizing the job prospects out of a T3? I'm in a similar situation, and trying to get into a T14 or at least low T1, but i'm not sure what I should do if I don't get in. Although i'm top 5% I still have doubts about the outcome. And even though I have a full ride I still take on 30k (with interest) for living expenses each year and the starting, average, salary from my school is around 60k (in the NYC area no less). It's starting to seem more and more like a $90k gamble that i'll be one of the few that will get biglaw to pay it off. Just wondering what your thoughts were since you are also trying to avoid debt and decided to stay


I definitely can relate.

I'm at a low T2 and although I'm top 5%, it seems like there are only 5-10 great outcomes a year from my school. By great outcomes I mean big law or federal clerkships. That's not to say that there aren't good opportunities available as far as local/state government jobs, public interest jobs, etc., but I'm really looking to go either big fed, academia, partner track big law, or something of that caliber. I'm nervous too.

The T2/T3 gamble can certainly pay off if you graduate with $0-90K and end up with big law. But that "if" is a very large if.

I personally will transfer if I get into Harvard, Boalt, or UCHI.

Good luck to all. OP, let's hear more about your situation.


OP here.

TL;DR -- There were some strong indicators that I was going to land a biglaw gig that made it easier for me to decide not to transfer. (When I saw how long this was, I felt this was obligatory).

I entered law school with the presumption that if I lost any portion of my scholarship after 1L year, I would drop-out. Luckily, I was never in any real jeopardy of that happening after I received my first semester grades so while it was on my mind during my first semester, it didn't linger.

I attend my school hoping to transfer, but well aware of the up hill battle. I understood the risk I was taking when I decided to attend a TTT, and I took that risk knowing full well that I could end up with employment prospects that were below my expectations. I did it because I received a full ride and due to other personal reasons.

The one thing I will say about you having doubts about your employment opportunities despite being in the top 5%, is that you need to be realistic with what your job prospects are going to be. I'm a pessimist by nature, so I believed that I wouldn't land biglaw, despite every indication pointing to the contrary (grades/rank, professors'/career services' ensuring me of the strong likelihood of biglaw, generally a good interviewer, and doing everything possible to maximize my exposure).

I, too, expected to incur somewhere between 50-100k in living expenses, including interest. But as mentioned above, I had already come to an understanding prior to accepting my offer to a TTT that I might have mediocre job prospects and some debt (living expenses). Despite this, the only way I was going to take on the extra debt from CLS was if there was a significant chance I wouldn't land biglaw. At the end of the day, that risk wasn't there in my situation.

Here are a few things that really solidified my decision not to transfer:

- Through mass mailing efforts I was receiving screeners to firms that didn't recruit from my school.
- During those screeners, I had partners, including hiring partners, tell me that they would prefer a candidate, like me, at the top of their class at a TTT, rather than a middle of the pack CLS transfer student.
- I had professors (albeit, with biases) telling me I was going to get multiple offers from biglaw firms.
- I had professors willing to recommend me to colleagues working at biglaw firms.
- I had a callback interview with a v10, through a recommendation by a professor.

In short, it seemed much more likely than not that I would end up in biglaw from my TTT, and this was apparent before I had to make my decision to transfer. Also, obviously, I had people sticking their necks out for me, and I was doing everything possible to maximize my chances.

That being said, its no secret most people attending TTTs won't land biglaw if they are outside the top 5%. So I think that if I was outside the top 5% I would have transferred. If I get into HYS, I think I would have transferred (lofty academia goals). Also, I would have been more likely to transfer if I was a poor interviewer, and if I wasn't receiving unbiased advice not to transfer.

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Re: TTT graduate who turned down T14 transfer opportunity. AMA.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:56 pm

OP here.

Here is a link to the thread that helped me decide not to go.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=266522&start=25

BOSStongrl

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Re: TTT graduate who turned down T14 transfer opportunity. AMA.

Postby BOSStongrl » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:02 pm

Great! Thanks so much for your insight. Certainly gives me a lot to think about, but glad i'll be making a more informed decision now. I think for now i'll try and hustle (via mass mail and networking) over the summer and see what comes from it and go from there (if I don't get into a T14 or T1). Good luck in your career goals and thanks again for sharing



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