Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

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snarfing

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Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby snarfing » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:00 pm

My first semester grades are stellar, obviously I need to keep it up another semester which will be challenging, but should I even consider from above the top 10% (I cant say more than that, as my school only releases top 10%, but I have a ~3.8 and top 10% is usually 3.65 and up). Fordham already has good placement in NYC and being at the top of the class gives me a good chance at a big law job (or maybe federal clerkship? who knows if my desires will change.) Would I be gaining any tangible advantage switching? Originally NYU was my dream school, but they wait listed me and it will be expensive to transfer in.

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Mullens

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby Mullens » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:21 pm

snarfing wrote:My first semester grades are stellar, obviously I need to keep it up another semester which will be challenging, but should I even consider from above the top 10% (I cant say more than that, as my school only releases top 10%, but I have a ~3.8 and top 10% is usually 3.65 and up). Fordham already has good placement in NYC and being at the top of the class gives me a good chance at a big law job (or maybe federal clerkship? who knows if my desires will change.) Would I be gaining any tangible advantage switching? Originally NYU was my dream school, but they wait listed me and it will be expensive to transfer in.


This is a situation where I think transferring will hurt you at OCI. In your position at Fordham, you’re the target candidate that biglaw firms look for when they come to Fordham’s OCI. They are looking for top 10% kids and the vast majority of their callbacks will go to people like you. You will crush Fordham’s OCI (assuming average to above average interviewing).

If you transfer and do OCI at H/C/N you’re not longer the big fish in the pond. You move to the bottom of the totem pole at an OCI where most of the interviewers will be alumni of your new school and looking to hire kids from H/C/N and not transfers from Fordham. Some firms also only give out a set number of callbacks per school and while the number might be lower at Fordham, you’re among an even smaller pool of applicants (proportionately to the number of spots) at Fordham.

Fordham is a good enough school and has robust enough of an OCI that staying is a better option.

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby kay12345 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:48 pm

snarfing wrote:My first semester grades are stellar, obviously I need to keep it up another semester which will be challenging, but should I even consider from above the top 10% (I cant say more than that, as my school only releases top 10%, but I have a ~3.8 and top 10% is usually 3.65 and up). Fordham already has good placement in NYC and being at the top of the class gives me a good chance at a big law job (or maybe federal clerkship? who knows if my desires will change.) Would I be gaining any tangible advantage switching? Originally NYU was my dream school, but they wait listed me and it will be expensive to transfer in.


Don't transfer. Keep your grades up this spring. Work hard at the UWC and make Law Review. Follow these steps and you will do well at OCI (I promise). If you transfer to another better ranked school, you most likely won't be permitted to participate in their OCI. Being at the top of your class at Fordham offers you some amazing Big Law opportunities. I'd say the only advantage to transferring would be being able to brag about attending Harvard law. Speaking from personal experience.

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby snarfing » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:02 pm

Ok, I've heard words of submitting transfer apps to leverage a better scholarship, is that worth it? I am getting 40k a year out of a 59k a year tuition, my school gives a couple of full scholarships and several 45k scholarships, so I could get something out of it if it works.

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby kay12345 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:26 pm

snarfing wrote:Ok, I've heard words of submitting transfer apps to leverage a better scholarship, is that worth it? I am getting 40k a year out of a 59k a year tuition, my school gives a couple of full scholarships and several 45k scholarships, so I could get something out of it if it works.


Not sure about that. I will say though, I know transfer apps are due in the summer, and the summer is insanely busy. Finals, then UWC, then moot court and DRS and trial ad tryouts, then OCI. All while interning every day. It's a lot; I'd advise you to budget your time and energy wisely.

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby NoDayButToday » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:42 pm

snarfing wrote:Ok, I've heard words of submitting transfer apps to leverage a better scholarship, is that worth it? I am getting 40k a year out of a 59k a year tuition, my school gives a couple of full scholarships and several 45k scholarships, so I could get something out of it if it works.


I think it's worth a try. I've only know a few people who've done that successfully, but if it's worth an application fee cost to you to try it, I say go for it. Worst they can say is no.

Otherwise, I knew several Fordham to NYU transfers. FWIW, NYU Law Review only took 3 transfers the year before me, 5 transfers my year, and 4 the year after me, and I think of those 12 spots, 5 were held by Fordham transfers. So whatever you guys are doing in legal research and writing over there is solid. Transfers to NYU across the board did well at EIW/OCI--the Fordham transfers I know are at V10 and V20 firms (or will be).

Financials are the only thing I would consider, personally, especially if you wanna clerk. If it’s your dream school and you can afford it, I say apply and go.
Last edited by NoDayButToday on Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:48 pm

kay12345 wrote:If you transfer to another better ranked school, you most likely won't be permitted to participate in their OCI.

This isn't true, actually (it's true for some schools but by no means all). That's not to say someone should transfer from the top of Fordham, just wanted to clarify that.

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bretby

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby bretby » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:06 am

snarfing wrote:Ok, I've heard words of submitting transfer apps to leverage a better scholarship, is that worth it? I am getting 40k a year out of a 59k a year tuition, my school gives a couple of full scholarships and several 45k scholarships, so I could get something out of it if it works.


I believe as a rule they won't increase your scholarship if you threaten to transfer. Agree with those saying there is little benefit to transferring unless you want bragging rights. Given that you have a reasonable scholarship at Fordham and will likely get no scholarship anywhere you transfer, these are very expensive bragging rights.

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby Dave118 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:08 am

Perhaps I should start a new thread, figured my question is closely enough related. Like OP, I too crushed my grades my first semester. I’m in Cardozo/St John/Seton Hall/Brooklyn type school. Based on previous years, I should receive a $180k job if my grades keep up. Any reason to transfer? Will transferring hurt me?

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:22 am

Dave118 wrote:Perhaps I should start a new thread, figured my question is closely enough related. Like OP, I too crushed my grades my first semester. I’m in Cardozo/St John/Seton Hall/Brooklyn type school. Based on previous years, I should receive a $180k job if my grades keep up. Any reason to transfer? Will transferring hurt me?


How much are you paying at your school?

There's a pretty massive difference in outcomes between Fordham and the schools you listed, so even if you have top grades, transferring might not be a bad idea.

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby Dave118 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:28 am

cavalier1138 wrote:How much are you paying at your school?

There's a pretty massive difference in outcomes between Fordham and the schools you listed, so even if you have top grades, transferring might not be a bad idea.


I’m on a full ride.

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby Dave118 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:31 am

My question is about it hurting my chances at OCI if I transfer. At my current school, I have a very good shot at firms such as Kirkland and Ellis or Paul Weiss. If I Transfer I would either transfer to Columbia or NYU.

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby NoDayButToday » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:59 am

Dave118 wrote:My question is about it hurting my chances at OCI if I transfer. At my current school, I have a very good shot at firms such as Kirkland and Ellis or Paul Weiss. If I Transfer I would either transfer to Columbia or NYU.


I don't think it would hurt your chances. I didn't know any transfers from the schools you mentioned, but I know overall transfers did very well at EIW at NYU. Employers understand that transferring to NYU/Columbia has advantages beyond just OCI/EIW. It gives you a better shot at clerkships, etc., which make them look good and it gives them another T6er for their website. They'll ask you questions at EIW about why you transferred, but I imagine your outcomes in individual interviews will mostly rely on how you interview generally.
Last edited by NoDayButToday on Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mullens

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby Mullens » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:05 am

kay12345 wrote:
snarfing wrote:My first semester grades are stellar, obviously I need to keep it up another semester which will be challenging, but should I even consider from above the top 10% (I cant say more than that, as my school only releases top 10%, but I have a ~3.8 and top 10% is usually 3.65 and up). Fordham already has good placement in NYC and being at the top of the class gives me a good chance at a big law job (or maybe federal clerkship? who knows if my desires will change.) Would I be gaining any tangible advantage switching? Originally NYU was my dream school, but they wait listed me and it will be expensive to transfer in.


Don't transfer. Keep your grades up this spring. Work hard at the UWC and make Law Review. Follow these steps and you will do well at OCI (I promise). If you transfer to another better ranked school, you most likely won't be permitted to participate in their OCI. Being at the top of your class at Fordham offers you some amazing Big Law opportunities. I'd say the only advantage to transferring would be being able to brag about attending Harvard law. Speaking from personal experience.


Pretty sure that all of HCN allow transfers to participate in OCI unless you get in very late. Only top school I know of that doesn’t allow transfers to do OCI is Cornell.

Agree that not transferring is the right play here though

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby edyw » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:17 am

I’m in a similar position (~3.9 at Fordham after first semester) but I want to eventually work in markets outside of NYC/preferably in Asia or Europe as I’m not a citizen and the H1B situation is hard to predict these days. Do you guys think it makes sense for me to transfer to a school with better recognition internationally if i’m able to keep up my grades? I should also mention that I only have 25k/yr scholly at Fordham so money is not that much of a difference.

Congrats OP on your performance—and appreciate any insight!

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:43 pm

It can't hurt to put in applications and see what happens. I think it's something of a tough call as to whether it's worthwhile transferring from near the top of you class at Fordham to a t-6ish school but there's no argument for not trying (gtfoh with 1l summer is busy).

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby Graybrow » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:46 pm

edyw wrote:I’m in a similar position (~3.9 at Fordham after first semester) but I want to eventually work in markets outside of NYC/preferably in Asia or Europe as I’m not a citizen and the H1B situation is hard to predict these days. Do you guys think it makes sense for me to transfer to a school with better recognition internationally if i’m able to keep up my grades? I should also mention that I only have 25k/yr scholly at Fordham so money is not that much of a difference.

Congrats OP on your performance—and appreciate any insight!


Some place like Harvard might make a lot more sense for you, especially if your scholly is already so low.

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby radio1nowhere » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:46 pm

Mullens wrote:If you transfer and do OCI at H/C/N you’re not longer the big fish in the pond. You move to the bottom of the totem pole at an OCI where most of the interviewers will be alumni of your new school and looking to hire kids from H/C/N and not transfers from Fordham. Some firms also only give out a set number of callbacks per school and while the number might be lower at Fordham, you’re among an even smaller pool of applicants (proportionately to the number of spots) at Fordham.

Fordham is a good enough school and has robust enough of an OCI that staying is a better option.

I tend to agree with the bottom line that OP is in a great situation at Fordham and might not stand to gain much by transferring, but I'm not sure if it's true that transfers are at the "bottom of the totem pole" at their new school's OCI. Anecdotally, the transfer students I know at HLS did very well at OCI — including at firms like GDC that are picky about grades. And even for interviewers who have no idea how to think about a transfer's 1L grades, I feel like the worst they could possibly assume is that the transfer is around median. So transfers might be likely to beat out below-median HLS applicants, even in that worst-case scenario. Not to mention that a healthy amount of firms at HYS OCI are looking more to personality/fit/etc. than to grades, anyway.

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby Wild Card » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:52 pm

Transfers to NYU do well at OCI.

$25,000 per year isn't a lot. $60,000 per year would be a different story.

For the long-term, a CLS/NYU degree will serve you much better. Even if you're going local, the local attorneys are so very impressed by CLS/NYU degrees--they're even wowed by Cornell degrees.

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Re: Is it even worth it to try and transfer from Fordham to NYU/Columbia or Hardvard for NYC jobs?

Postby shock259 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:22 pm

I think it's a close call. Many people have good thoughts in this thread. Just noting a couple of things:

As Nony said, almost every school (other than Cornell) will let you do OCI at your new school. So I don't know if a transfer would help much, but it probably wouldn't hurt. You'll probably end up talking to most of the same firms regardless of whether you decide to transfer.

Also, some schools will offer you discounted tuition if you threaten to transfer. Obviously, you need to be diplomatic about this, and it might not work. But the blanket denials in this thread aren't quite accurate. As an anecdote, I set up a couple of phone calls with deans of my 1L school to inform them that I was accepted to Columbia, and asking if we could discuss the decision. When we spoke, I basically just told them it was a great opportunity, but that I was a little torn about it all. The dollars and cents favored transferring, given the likelihood of getting into biglaw after graduation. But it was offset by the new debt I'd be taking on.

Long story short: they lectured a bit about how big law was going to be hard to get as a transfer. Listened politely. Asked if they could move the need at all in favor of staying. They offered an extra $5/semester off tuition, with a promise to take more off next year. I said I'd think about it, and ended up transferring.



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