Fordham to NYU or CLS

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:44 pm

Just got 2nd semester grades. Ended up with a 3.66 GPA.

I already pay close to sticker ($10k/year scholly) so the money is not the issue here.

Goals: Big Law to pay off loans is first priority. Obviously want to go to the best firm possible so there are more options when I eventually lateral. Want to stay in NYC so really only considering NYU or CLS.

Is it worth it to make the move? I am very involved at school so I'm worried about losing those connections as well as the ability to get involved at the school I transfer to. I checked out the 509 reports and it looks like NYU is within reach and CLS is a long shot (GPA is just above the 25th percentile).

Any advice/info would be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

Nebby

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby Nebby » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:36 pm

I think it's worth it

fosterman90

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby fosterman90 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:49 pm

Fordham 3L here. Congrats on the grades. Given your goals, I don't see the upside. You will get big law. You have a better than decent shot at LR. Having gone through OCI, I can tell you that top 10% + LR + no asbergers will get your foot in the door with any firm that does OCI at Fordham and will very likely land you at a v10 (should you choose to go to one). Applying as a transfer even at NYU or Columbia will be a grind. It will be a breeze for you at Fordham.

Also, consider the impact of asking your professors for LoRs. If you end up not transferring, it will put a damper on the extent to which the administration goes to bat for you come clerkship application season.

I'm no Fordham zealot, I've just been through this and think the 10k over 2 years should be enough to keep you there. The school really does take care of the top 10%.

Best of luck. Feel free to pm me if you have specific questions.

NoDayButToday

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby NoDayButToday » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:49 am

FWIW, the Fordham transfers to NYU always disproportionately made Law Review. Of the 9 LR transfers on last year's board/staff between the two classes, 2017 and 2018, 4 were from Fordham. The 2016 bunch also had at least one Fordham transfer, too. So whatever your research and writing profs are doing there works, I'd say.

(Incidentally two more of the 9 transfers from last year's board/staff were also coming from Jesuit schools--BC and GULC)

I only know one of the Fordham transfers well and my sense is that person is very happy with their decision to have transferred. I think it wasn't an easy decision, though, because the prior poster is likely right that top of the class at Fordham positions you well for comparable outcomes.

With that little scholarship, or if you're unhappy, I'd say go for it, however.

As for losing 1L connections--make the effort to stay in touch. I was essentially local as well (I transferred from out of state to NYU but my husband was in school in my 1L school city, so I commuted). When I was home, I would hang out with my 1L friends and even go to events with them at my 1L school. I went back for their graduation last week and anticipate friendships that will continue. Being a short subway ride away, you will have it easy if staying close to your 1L classmates is a priority to you.

Profs are a different story. I have stayed in touch with about half of my professors, on my own initiative. The others I've lost touch with. The most relevant thing to note for your purposes is that several have volunteered that though they like staying in touch, they would not write clerkship recs because I'm competing with the students who stayed. I know others in this forum have had success with getting clerkship recs from 1L profs, but it's just hard to predict. I wasn't interested in clerking, so no biggie for me, but I think this was a problem for one of the other transfers from my school who had to hustle more 2L as a result.

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:14 am

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:25 am

NoDayButToday wrote:FWIW, the Fordham transfers to NYU always disproportionately made Law Review. Of the 9 LR transfers on last year's board/staff between the two classes, 2017 and 2018, 4 were from Fordham. The 2016 bunch also had at least one Fordham transfer, too. So whatever your research and writing profs are doing there works, I'd say.

(Incidentally two more of the 9 transfers from last year's board/staff were also coming from Jesuit schools--BC and GULC)

I only know one of the Fordham transfers well and my sense is that person is very happy with their decision to have transferred. I think it wasn't an easy decision, though, because the prior poster is likely right that top of the class at Fordham positions you well for comparable outcomes.

With that little scholarship, or if you're unhappy, I'd say go for it, however.

As for losing 1L connections--make the effort to stay in touch. I was essentially local as well (I transferred from out of state to NYU but my husband was in school in my 1L school city, so I commuted). When I was home, I would hang out with my 1L friends and even go to events with them at my 1L school. I went back for their graduation last week and anticipate friendships that will continue. Being a short subway ride away, you will have it easy if staying close to your 1L classmates is a priority to you.

Profs are a different story. I have stayed in touch with about half of my professors, on my own initiative. The others I've lost touch with. The most relevant thing to note for your purposes is that several have volunteered that though they like staying in touch, they would not write clerkship recs because I'm competing with the students who stayed. I know others in this forum have had success with getting clerkship recs from 1L profs, but it's just hard to predict. I wasn't interested in clerking, so no biggie for me, but I think this was a problem for one of the other transfers from my school who had to hustle more 2L as a result.


Thank you for the info. It's good to hear that transferring worked out for you.

I'm actually very happy a Fordham, but since I'm paying close to sticker anyway I'm inclined to get a degree from the best possible school. Although it might not have an impact on my first job, I imagine it will help down the road. Would you mind sharing why you made the decision to transfer to NYU and what you're doing now etc.

Also, if you could provide some insight into fosterman's opinion that OCI as a transfer will be a grind, it would be greatly appreciated!

Similar to you, I don't see myself doing a clerkship. Admittedly, I don't know much about them other than they are prestigious and you make something like $60k your first year and then when you go big law you get paid as 2nd year associate. I'll most likely just go straight to a firm.

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:33 am

Nebby wrote:I think it's worth it


Nebby- thank you for the input. As I've been reading this forum I can see you're very knowledgable about Columbia (transfor mentor etc). If you wouldn't mind going into more detail about your experience (see issues above such as OCI etc) as well as my overall chances for getting in that would be great.

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:
fosterman90 wrote:Fordham 3L here. Congrats on the grades. Given your goals, I don't see the upside. You will get big law. You have a better than decent shot at LR. Having gone through OCI, I can tell you that top 10% + LR + no asbergers will get your foot in the door with any firm that does OCI at Fordham and will very likely land you at a v10 (should you choose to go to one). Applying as a transfer even at NYU or Columbia will be a grind. It will be a breeze for you at Fordham.

Also, consider the impact of asking your professors for LoRs. If you end up not transferring, it will put a damper on the extent to which the administration goes to bat for you come clerkship application season.

I'm no Fordham zealot, I've just been through this and think the 10k over 2 years should be enough to keep you there. The school really does take care of the top 10%.

Best of luck. Feel free to pm me if you have specific questions.


Thank you for your input. Why will it be a grind to do OCI as a transfer?

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby 1styearlateral » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:17 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be worth applying and, if you get accepted, using that as a bartering chip with Fordham to get more money? That, in my opinion, would be worth the transfer application grind. Plus, as others have stated, you've already got a good shot at biglaw. Fordham is going to want to keep its top students there, even if that means giving them more scholarship money. Happened to classmates of mine who weren't even top 10%, just those who got offers at better schools.

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby Internationalist » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:22 pm

OP, feel free to PM me. I had strikingly similar stats and aid from Fordham and decided to make the jump.

As for getting accepted into NYU/CLS and bargaining for additional aid, Fordham is notoriously cheap and you actually need a professor to lobby on your behalf to get anything more (and I only know this after a professor told me at lunch a few years after I transferred).

fosterman90

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby fosterman90 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:36 pm

I say it will be a grind not because you will have a hard time, but because I know people who have done it and you are essentially competing with the top 10% at Fordham rather than your new colleagues at NYU. No doubt that you absolutely can and likely will have great options coming out of NYU interviews, but I don't think it gives you any advantage vis a vis your Fordham peers.

Also, last year's 1L top 10% GPA cutoff was 3.65. We will probably get this year's cutoffs today or later in the week. While you will *probably* hit top 10%, it's no guarantee at within one one hundredth of last years cut off.

I would completely understand you making the move based on the reasons you and others above have cited, I just personally think there is some baggage to transferring that should be avoided if possible.

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quiver

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby quiver » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:29 pm

I say go for it. If you're paying close to sticker at Fordham anyway, might as well apply. You don't have anything to lose (if you don't get in, you're still in a great position at Fordham) and you have at least a little bit to gain (NYU could provide a slight bump for clerkships and high-level gov/PI if you decide to go that route down the line).

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby Slytherpuff » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:30 pm

All of my transfer friends killed it during NYU's EIW. We have so many firms interview with us that I think it could open a lot of doors for you, firm-wise. I say go for it!

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby barkschool » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:48 pm

Nebby wrote:I think it's worth it

kay12345

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby kay12345 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:24 pm

Questions for Fordham students:

1. Are we notified of our class rank? Or do we just have to guess using the approximate standing data on the Fordham website?
2. I am also a 1L and just got my second semester grades (I am also in top 10%). I am wondering what the top 5% cutoff is (or has been) for Law Review purposes. Any insight would be appreciated.

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby fosterman90 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:32 pm

kay12345 wrote:Questions for Fordham students:

1. Are we notified of our class rank? Or do we just have to guess using the approximate standing data on the Fordham website?
2. I am also a 1L and just got my second semester grades (I am also in top 10%). I am wondering what the top 5% cutoff is (or has been) for Law Review purposes. Any insight would be appreciated.


1. Fordham does not provide you with your class rank, just the approximate class standings available under the "grading system" tab here:

https://www.fordham.edu/info/22558/student_profile

2. Based on class rank calculator (available somewhere else on TLS and generally credited) and the approximate class standings information given for the class of 2018/2019 available at the link above, top 5% cutoff was approximately 3.758. I'd expect that to remain consistent for your class within a couple thousandths of a point. You can enter that information into the calculator once the info for class of 2019 becomes available. Note that some of the top 5% will end up transferring, and I don't think the cutoff recalibrates to "dip" lower into the ~6-7% to fill grade on spots, but I'm not sure how all that works in practice.

Edit: with the new numbers for your class out, looks like top 5% = ~3.795. Really hard to be accurate on a bell curve at that end of the extreme though.
Last edited by fosterman90 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby NoDayButToday » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thank you for the info. It's good to hear that transferring worked out for you.

I'm actually very happy a Fordham, but since I'm paying close to sticker anyway I'm inclined to get a degree from the best possible school. Although it might not have an impact on my first job, I imagine it will help down the road. Would you mind sharing why you made the decision to transfer to NYU and what you're doing now etc.

Also, if you could provide some insight into fosterman's opinion that OCI as a transfer will be a grind, it would be greatly appreciated!

Similar to you, I don't see myself doing a clerkship. Admittedly, I don't know much about them other than they are prestigious and you make something like $60k your first year and then when you go big law you get paid as 2nd year associate. I'll most likely just go straight to a firm.


I'm PI/Gov so I didn't do OCI (at NYU we call it EIW). I imagine EIW could be a grind for transfers, though--you have to prepare an extra response for why you transferred. August is a whirlwind. We had orientation on August 9--a mandatory day-long affair--and then people who were doing EIW, which was all but two of us, were doing mock interviews and launching into it. I can't remember the sequencing, but the transfer writing competition started either right before or right after EIW, so it was probably pretty relentless. Then school starts. Also, first semester as a transfer is socially hard because you're having to make all new friends but you don't have a section. NYU and Columbia are both huge so most of the other 2Ls only seemed to know their section-mates for the most part which played out well for transfers, I think, but still made it tough to break into friend groups that formed 1L. Anyway, I bring that up because while trying to make friends and get settled you also have call back interviews that are taking you away from classes sometimes until October.

But as Slytherpuff said, the transfers do really well at EIW so it usually pays off.

I wanted to go to NYU for a lot of reasons. My 1L school was wonderful and I was very invested in the community there, but I felt like there weren't a lot of upper level crim course offerings or other opportunities. I felt like PI 2Ls and 3Ls were sending out signals that they weren't well supported. I think the school meant really well and is committed to public service, but just didn't have the resources to devote to summer stipends and expanded course offerings.

Enter Bryan Stevenson's TED Talk and the knowledge that he teaches at NYU and does a death penalty defense clinic in the Deep South. I really wanted to return South, where I'm from, and I knew I wanted to do criminal defense. Capital defense and 8th Amendment impact lit were a long-term goal of mine. My husband was in school in Boston so I figured it was Harvard or bust for transferring, but then I got into NYU--and not Harvard--and we worked it out and I went. Did the clinic and was really able to specialize and work on some of the skills I will need in my career.

NYU participates in a Southern public defender training program called Gideon's Promise. They're funding my first year in a PD office, in my home state of SC. The office commits to hiring It's GP fellows within a year. So, I'm Bar prepping now and moving home.

Would not have had any of these opportunities at my 1L school. I probably would have started in Boston biglaw and lateralled down to the South, built up a strong pro bono record, and moved into PI in a few years. That was my plan, anyway.
Last edited by NoDayButToday on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kay12345

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby kay12345 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:27 pm

Class standings for 2019 released today. 10% cutoff a bit higher than has been for past two years--3.68.

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby kay12345 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:31 pm

fosterman90 wrote:
kay12345 wrote:Questions for Fordham students:

1. Are we notified of our class rank? Or do we just have to guess using the approximate standing data on the Fordham website?
2. I am also a 1L and just got my second semester grades (I am also in top 10%). I am wondering what the top 5% cutoff is (or has been) for Law Review purposes. Any insight would be appreciated.


1. Fordham does not provide you with your class rank, just the approximate class standings available under the "grading system" tab here:

https://www.fordham.edu/info/22558/student_profile

2. Based on class rank calculator (available somewhere else on TLS and generally credited) and the approximate class standings information given for the class of 2018/2019 available at the link above, top 5% cutoff was approximately 3.758. I'd expect that to remain consistent for your class within a couple thousandths of a point. You can enter that information into the calculator once the info for class of 2019 becomes available. Note that some of the top 5% will end up transferring, and I don't think the cutoff recalibrates to "dip" lower into the ~6-7% to fill grade on spots, but I'm not sure how all that works in practice.

Edit: with the new numbers for your class out, looks like top 5% = ~3.795. Really hard to be accurate on a bell curve at that end of the extreme though.



Thanks for your quick response. I'm at 3.74, so I'm thinking no walk on for me.

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby fosterman90 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:08 pm

OP: Not that it is a big deal at all (you did amazingly well and will have biglaw options at Fordham, NYU, or whatever school you transfer to), but just missing the cut for top 10% swings the pendulum for me. I think you should go for NYU.

Just missing the cut is tough, but employers are well informed and know that you are more accurately described as "top 10%" than "top 25%". If I were you, I would not put "top 25%" or whatever Career Services suggests in the OCI material. The guidelines do not require that you put anything. Just put your GPA. It speaks for itself.

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Re: Fordham to NYU or CLS

Postby Joscellin » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:17 am

Nebby wrote:I think it's worth it



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