Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

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Lawstudent3000

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Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby Lawstudent3000 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:07 pm

I posted some time back, and feel a bit annoyed that I didn't apply during early decision for Georgetown, but what's done is done. I got a 3.550 at a mid TT school, with a good hold on the region. I've got almost full scholarship, and perhaps plan on working here, but perhaps due to some unsolved ego issues, and feeling like I really want to spend the next 2 years in a different city, I have considered transferring up.

Class rank isn't released but the deans list cutoff is 3.400 so I figure I'm somewhere in the 15% ballpark? I would love to get in somewhere really great, such as Columbia or NYU. GULC is a common choice, is it a school that is worth transferring to and can I get in? When I posted before I asked about GW/Boston but I got feedback that maybe transferring there wouldn't be worth the money. What would be my chances? Obviously I'm hoping for the best come exam time, but how does it look?

The real issue is the kind of hassle and pain I have to give my school in order to even apply to transfer. Plus having to get a prof to write a letter. I wonder what kind of consequences, even if not "officially" I would receive.

The money is another question. I've got 40k a year at my current school... Thoughts?
Thanks

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EncyclopediaOrange

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby EncyclopediaOrange » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:31 pm

I think you have a decent shot of getting in at GULC, but with your goals, I'm not sure if it's worth the move. Get even better grades this semester, then decide.

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magnum_law

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby magnum_law » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:50 pm

Look, I'm not saying this to troll, saying it because it's true. If your sole motivation is to go to Gtown is due to "ego issues" or prestige chasing, you seriously shouldn't bother. The T14 (now the T13) is really its own world; and Gtown is constantly and consistently the laughing stock of it. And with good reason. Compared to the other top law schools, a 50% ish placement in big law is abysmal- and it's near 600 student class size will take the feeling of being "elite" or "special" away QUICKLY. You're probably better off being top of your class at a T2 (that places a hypothetical 10% in biglaw) and hustling hard, rather than being another face at Gtown. Save the money.

Columbia or almost any other t13 is a different story, and a purely financial decision; although employers have historically been wary of transfers - take that into account.

ETA; feel free to PM if you need to talk in greater detail while retaining your anonymity.

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Heisenbyrd

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby Heisenbyrd » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:59 pm

magnum_law wrote:(GULC's) near 600 student class size will take the feeling of being "elite" or "special" away QUICKLY.


Lol someone should let Harvard know that. I love it when 1L's get on their soapbox re: job prospects and "prestige." Not doing a good job dispelling the stereotype that most of these kids are K-JD's without any real experience interviewing, networking, or straight hustling. A mere 50% chance at making a $160,000 starting salary is a frightening concept? Sure. Got to get it closer to 65% (the mid-T14) or 70% (the highest rungs), much harder to screw that up. Otherwise you're a laughingstock :roll:

Lawstudent3000 wrote:I got a 3.550 at a mid TT school, with a good hold on the region. I've got almost full scholarship, and perhaps plan on working here, but perhaps due to some unsolved ego issues, and feeling like I really want to spend the next 2 years in a different city, I have considered transferring up.


OP, it sounds like you have a great gig going currently, why transfer? Posting on TLS is just asking for venom from "YSH or bust" trolls. OJ's response above is on point. Put your head down, study harder this semester, and knock it out of the park. If you're compelled to put in an application to the T14, consider the significant debt burden. They don't generally give any scholarships. I think if you get within the 5-10% range of your class, it's feasible, but at that point you may be better off staying put.

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magnum_law

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby magnum_law » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:44 pm

Heisenbyrd wrote:
magnum_law wrote:(GULC's) near 600 student class size will take the feeling of being "elite" or "special" away QUICKLY.


Lol someone should let Harvard know that. I love it when 1L's get on their soapbox re: job prospects and "prestige." Not doing a good job dispelling the stereotype that most of these kids are K-JD's without any real experience interviewing, networking, or straight hustling. A mere 50% chance at making a $160,000 starting salary is a frightening concept? Sure. Got to get it closer to 65% (the mid-T14) or 70% (the highest rungs), much harder to screw that up. Otherwise you're a laughingstock :roll:

Lawstudent3000 wrote:I got a 3.550 at a mid TT school, with a good hold on the region. I've got almost full scholarship, and perhaps plan on working here, but perhaps due to some unsolved ego issues, and feeling like I really want to spend the next 2 years in a different city, I have considered transferring up.


OP, it sounds like you have a great gig going currently, why transfer? Posting on TLS is just asking for venom from "YSH or bust" trolls. OJ's response above is on point. Put your head down, study harder this semester, and knock it out of the park. If you're compelled to put in an application to the T14, consider the significant debt burden. They don't generally give any scholarships. I think if you get within the 5-10% range of your class, it's feasible, but at that point you may be better off staying put.


Criticizes someone else's advice. /Gives same exact advice. You're an idiot.
Also, H and GTown are very different leagues. Either way, paying $320,000 dollars for a 44.1% chance* at 180k a year SHOULD be a frighting concept. There are better options. Don't get defensive if you're one of those 350ish GULC students that made a poor choice.

*LST reports 40.6% BL + 3.5% FC.
Last edited by magnum_law on Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mjb447

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby mjb447 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:50 pm

If you've got ego issues and a desire to go somewhere else, go buy a flashy car with decent fuel economy. It'll probably be less expensive in the long run than transferring.

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magnum_law

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby magnum_law » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:53 pm

OP, here are the quick numbers for GTown's former peers - It's a very tangible difference.

As previously stated, Gtown is placing 44.1% into worthwhile jobs.

#13 Cornell = 62.8 + 3.8 = 66.6%
#12 Northwestern = 62.2 + 7.3 = 69.5%
#11 Duke = 65.9 + 8.7 = 74.6%

Lawstudent3000

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby Lawstudent3000 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:03 pm

Thanks to the responses. I guess the ultimate advice is to just study hard and see what happens when the grades come out. The hard part is bothering the school and perhaps suffering some consequences, as well as bothering a professor or two. Also, the suggestion by most of the schools seem to be to send in everything you have as early as possible to get it "in," then supplement the grades when you get them.

But I figure I'll maybe at least do my due diligence and look into gathering the materials. Come the grades reveal, either I won't have the sufficient grades or I'll make a decision then I suppose. Thanks to all the posts.

P.S - And this has helped as far as ranking how important Gtown is. At the moment, in addition to a PM with another poster, Gtown may not be worth it in my position. But I guess we'll see when the time comes to make a decision. :/

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby Piel » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:07 pm

magnum_law wrote:Gtown is placing 44.1% into worthwhile jobs.


Maybe consider that some people go to law school not even desiring to go into big law? Many people go to top law schools with the hope to work in top public interest organizations in a field that is personally meaningful to them, for example. I think this is something people on TLS frequently forget.

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magnum_law

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby magnum_law » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:31 pm

Piel wrote:
magnum_law wrote:Gtown is placing 44.1% into worthwhile jobs.


Maybe consider that some people go to law school not even desiring to go into big law? Many people go to top law schools with the hope to work in top public interest organizations in a field that is personally meaningful to them, for example. I think this is something people on TLS frequently forget.


Maybe, but overwhelming majority of people that desire a top law school do so for the money. Didn't feel the need to conform my answer for a discreet minority. Especially considering the more frequent & traditional route involves going to Biglaw for a few years prior to lateraling out into gov/ non-profits.

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby Piel » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:27 pm

magnum_law wrote:
Piel wrote:
magnum_law wrote:Gtown is placing 44.1% into worthwhile jobs.


Maybe consider that some people go to law school not even desiring to go into big law? Many people go to top law schools with the hope to work in top public interest organizations in a field that is personally meaningful to them, for example. I think this is something people on TLS frequently forget.


Maybe, but overwhelming majority of people that desire a top law school do so for the money. Didn't feel the need to conform my answer for a discreet minority. Especially considering the more frequent & traditional route involves going to Biglaw for a few years prior to lateraling out into gov/ non-profits.


I'm saying it's important to look at the bigger picture. GULC has a reputation for placing people in public interest (in fact the most people in public interest of any law school) so it would make a lot of sense that GULC attracts people who want to go into public interest jobs. So I wouldn't necessarily read that as failure to place in big law at the same rates as other schools if there's less desire among the student body to go into big law.

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:33 pm

Is this just a troll thread to solidify GULC's position outside the T13?

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magnum_law

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby magnum_law » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:51 pm

Piel wrote: I'm saying it's important to look at the bigger picture. GULC has a reputation for placing people in public interest (in fact the most people in public interest of any law school) so it would make a lot of sense that GULC attracts people who want to go into public interest jobs. So I wouldn't necessarily read that as failure to place in big law at the same rates as other schools if there's less desire among the student body to go into big law.


Eh. I'm less convinced that its attracting the PI self-selection types and more convinced that GULC happens to attract "reach" applicants that end up in PI after an OCI strike out. I doubt all those PI jobs are of the highly desired, "top" position variety. But hey, you probably know more about GULC employment prospects than I do.

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Heisenbyrd

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby Heisenbyrd » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:41 am

magnum_law wrote:Criticizes someone else's advice. /Gives same exact advice. You're an idiot.
Also, H and GTown are very different leagues. Either way, paying $320,000 dollars for a 44.1% chance* at 180k a year SHOULD be a frighting concept. There are better options. Don't get defensive if you're one of those 350ish GULC students that made a poor choice.

*LST reports 40.6% BL + 3.5% FC.


To be fair, I criticized your method, your delivery, and your perspective. It doesn't take a genius to suggest that the legal market is oversaturated, and staying put at a T2 with an 80% scholarship may be the most sound financial decision. However, to say that a smart kid can't hustle at Georgetown and come out on top is comical. It's indicative of the ass backwards, TLS, 4th gen, hand-me-a-job-on-a-platter mentality.

I admire your deflection with an attempt to ground the discussion in hard figures. What year's LST report are you referencing? GULC's class of 2016 crowdsourced their placement in biglaw and FC's. Their "worthwhile job" rate is well over 50%, assuming everyone even participated:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=262951G

And yeah, some people do actually go to DC because they give a shit about PI. Or they don't want to freeze their asses off in the Northeast. Imagine some of us have families. Maybe even different priorities than you. I'm sure you'll pick it up a few years out of school. But the issue here is WHY Georgetown may not be a good decision for OP. Just because we agree it it may not be, doesn't mean we agree.

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magnum_law

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby magnum_law » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:05 am

Heisenbyrd wrote:
magnum_law wrote:Criticizes someone else's advice. /Gives same exact advice. You're an idiot.
Also, H and GTown are very different leagues. Either way, paying $320,000 dollars for a 44.1% chance* at 180k a year SHOULD be a frighting concept. There are better options. Don't get defensive if you're one of those 350ish GULC students that made a poor choice.

*LST reports 40.6% BL + 3.5% FC.


To be fair, I criticized your method, your delivery, and your perspective. It doesn't take a genius to suggest that the legal market is oversaturated, and staying put at a T2 with an 80% scholarship may be the most sound financial decision. However, to say that a smart kid can't hustle at Georgetown and come out on top is comical. It's indicative of the ass backwards, TLS, 4th gen, hand-me-a-job-on-a-platter mentality.

I admire your deflection with an attempt to ground the discussion in hard figures. What year's LST report are you referencing? GULC's class of 2016 crowdsourced their placement in biglaw and FC's. Their "worthwhile job" rate is well over 50%, assuming everyone even participated:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=262951G

And yeah, some people do actually go to DC because they give a shit about PI. Or they don't want to freeze their asses off in the Northeast. Imagine some of us have families. Maybe even different priorities than you. I'm sure you'll pick it up a few years out of school. But the issue here is WHY Georgetown may not be a good decision for OP. Just because we agree it it may not be, doesn't mean we agree.


Agrees with result but disagrees with method... you sound like the concurring opinion that no one gives a shit about. But yeah, great job using self-selecting and Ill-cited fora as your source for the REAL Gtown employment numbers. FYI, I am citing 2015 grad numbers as published by the ABA. 2016 is officially released in early/mid-April, so we'll see right? I'll make sure to hold my breath for your FANTASTIC and unprecedented numbers.

The irony is that anyone that goes to Gtown thinks they are smart and will hustle their way into 180k or a "TOP" public interest job just because they'll be in DC. Year after year, reports have proved that 55%ish doesn't pull it off.

P.S. You seem bitter about "entitled TLSers" ... yet it seems that you go to a school that charges as much money as the rest of us for considerably worse employment prospects. Don't act as if you're any less entitled because of your failure to appropriately apply a cost-benefit analysis.

P.S.S. I'm actually a first gen-er. English is my second language. Yet I somehow managed a higher GPA + LSAT score than you? Hmm. Interesting, isn't it?

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Heisenbyrd

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby Heisenbyrd » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:58 pm

Yeesh, talk about an onslaught of ad homs.

magnum_law wrote:FYI, I am citing 2015 grad numbers as published by the ABA. 2016 is officially released in early/mid-April, so we'll see right?


As for this, I agree. We will likely fundamentally disagree on the nature of "good" numbers, but my point was to emphasize that sending 320+ students to biglaw/FC's is a positive cost/benefit analysis for many. Especially those who have experience branding, hustling, and networking. Not to mention another 200 go into PI. There's a bigger picture here. Sounds like OP got what he needed though. Otherwise, I'd prefer to save the pissing contest for arbitration.

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Re: Transferring up to top 15 School? Chances?

Postby ProspectiveStudent69 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:02 pm

You could get into WUSTL.



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