University of Chicago ED or Wait?

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Should I apply to Chicago ED or wait?

Apply ED
9
82%
Wait
2
18%
 
Total votes: 11

Bartolomeus

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University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby Bartolomeus » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:27 pm

[list=[/list]

Hi TLS,

I've read through several threads on the topic, but wanted to create my own. I apologize for the redundancy.

Currently, I am a first year student at a T1 school ranked in the 40's. I have a 3.92 on a 4.0 scale with three CALI awards (I only mention them because I don't know if they make a difference or not, though I presume they don't). I am considering a transfer, and I cannot decide between applying to the University of Chicago's ED program or waiting for a shot at the Holy Trinity. My immediate career goals are an AIII clerkship, and then biglaw or federal government work. I am concerned about my ability to write-on to my new school's law review (along with my current school's) if I have to compete in multiple competitions; getting into Chicago early would solve this problem for me. But I also understand that there is at least some difference in prospects between Chi and HYS. I would be very grateful for any advice.

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CheddarArachnid

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby CheddarArachnid » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:18 pm

Are you applying ED to Chicago because you are worried about dropping 2nd semester? Why are you not interested in CLS/NYU? In other words, is there something specific about UChicago vs. another CCN or is it just grade anxiety?

dabigchina

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby dabigchina » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:08 pm

CheddarArachnid wrote:Are you applying ED to Chicago because you are worried about dropping 2nd semester? Why are you not interested in CLS/NYU? In other words, is there something specific about UChicago vs. another CCN or is it just grade anxiety?

CLS and NYU don't serve his interests as well as Chicago IMO. The choices here should be ED Chicago or H (which is the only HYS he really has a realistic chance of getting into IMO)

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Joscellin

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby Joscellin » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:16 pm

dabigchina wrote:CLS and NYU don't serve his interests as well as Chicago IMO. The choices here should be ED Chicago or H (which is the only HYS he really has a realistic chance of getting into IMO)


This is pretty much my thought.

For OP's described situation, I see Chi/Columbia/NYU as essentially interchangeable pieces. H is the "realistic" one of HYS here, but with their shrinking transfer class last year, I wouldn't bet the farm on a longshot at H. ED to Chicago also lets OP write on after knowing whether he got in or not, so I would definitely go for it here.

Very little downside, and mitigates a lot of risk. The only reason I would hold off as OP would be if I really wanted one of the NY schools over Chi.

Edit: This calculus might change some if OP knows he is #1 in the class currently, especially if there is a signficant gap between him and #2. I am assuming that 3.92 is top 5-10 but not necessarily #1.

Bartolomeus

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby Bartolomeus » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:14 pm

Hey All,

I really appreciate the helpful responses so far. UChicago primarily appeals to me for two reasons. One, the idea that I'd be able to write onto the law review after acceptance, ensuring that I can focus all my energy on it as opposed to doing my host school's and others. Two, I am interested in studying under several members of the faculty. I'm also a little bit concerned about grade drop, but working to do as well as I can is a given, so that doesn't change the analysis very much.

I get the impression that Harvard is the only one of HYS that I have any sort of prospect of being admitted to. While the others are more attractive to me, I'd still think I'd prefer Harvard over Chicago in an absolute sense, but the convenience of Chicago's ED really changes things.

How important are my letters of recommendation in determining chances of admission? I know I have two letter writers who are very enthusiastic to recommend me, but I don't know if LoR's are really irrelevant unless particularly lackluster.

Sorry for the big heap of questions. This is an incredibly anxiety-inducing prospect.

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Joscellin

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby Joscellin » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:40 am

Bartolomeus wrote:How important are my letters of recommendation in determining chances of admission? I know I have two letter writers who are very enthusiastic to recommend me, but I don't know if LoR's are really irrelevant unless particularly lackluster.

Sorry for the big heap of questions. This is an incredibly anxiety-inducing prospect.


I know there are a few of us who went through this process last year who are looking forward to helping out folks this cycle. I know TLS was a big help to me last year.

As to LoRs, I'm fairly certain that one of my letters in particular was part of the reason I got in. I actually feel like you have the reasoning on them somewhat inverted.

Schools will expect somewhat generic/lackluster LoRs as that's what most professors probably write. The ones that are really strong, though, stand out.

Goldie

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby Goldie » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:13 am

I know this is anecdotal, but you might find it helpful. I attended a T30 school for 1L, was #1 in my class with a 4.0 GPA (and 4 CALIs), and transferred to Harvard. The year before me, someone was like #2 or #3 in the class with almost identical grades, but wasn't accepted to Harvard (and instead transferred to Chicago). It's quite possible that this doesn't mean much, and you'd be able to transfer into Harvard, but based on some of the things you said, Chicago ED really might not be a bad call. The law review write-on is a real consideration - I missed my opportunity to write on at Harvard (I didn't decide to apply to transfer until after the write-on was over) and I regret that.

Bartolomeus

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby Bartolomeus » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:32 am

Joscellin wrote:
I know there are a few of us who went through this process last year who are looking forward to helping out folks this cycle. I know TLS was a big help to me last year.

As to LoRs, I'm fairly certain that one of my letters in particular was part of the reason I got in. I actually feel like you have the reasoning on them somewhat inverted.

Schools will expect somewhat generic/lackluster LoRs as that's what most professors probably write. The ones that are really strong, though, stand out.


Thank you for the advice. Speaking to my professors, it seems they are willing to write very strong letters in my favor with the kind of comparative language I expect schools like ("Best in X years," for example). It seems like all the facts lean in favor of Chicago, and I suspect it's only delusional prestige-whoring that could make me think waiting for the possibility of Harvard without law review is better than going to Chicago and writing-on (assuming I'm even good enough to write-on at all).

This thread gives me a lot of food for thought.

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CheddarArachnid

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby CheddarArachnid » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:45 pm

Bartolomeus wrote:
Joscellin wrote:
I know there are a few of us who went through this process last year who are looking forward to helping out folks this cycle. I know TLS was a big help to me last year.

As to LoRs, I'm fairly certain that one of my letters in particular was part of the reason I got in. I actually feel like you have the reasoning on them somewhat inverted.

Schools will expect somewhat generic/lackluster LoRs as that's what most professors probably write. The ones that are really strong, though, stand out.


Thank you for the advice. Speaking to my professors, it seems they are willing to write very strong letters in my favor with the kind of comparative language I expect schools like ("Best in X years," for example). It seems like all the facts lean in favor of Chicago, and I suspect it's only delusional prestige-whoring that could make me think waiting for the possibility of Harvard without law review is better than going to Chicago and writing-on (assuming I'm even good enough to write-on at all).

This thread gives me a lot of food for thought.



A couple of thoughts, first I think the fixation on Law Review is misguided. It really is not all that important in the scheme of things. At least from Chicago you can easily get a federal clerkship with slightly above median performance. If you are seeking a super prestigious clerkship, grades at Chicago will be much more important than your ability to write on to law review or not.

As to LOR... its a total mixed bag. I had some very ridiculous LORs in my favor and they did not seem to help me get into anywhere I was not already in range for, and I assure you my LOR's were "stand out" letters.

I also think you should not give up on Harvard. Chicago will still be there after you get your second semester grades! In my opinion, law review write on is not a good enough reason to apply ED if you are actually a top student (#1-5) at your current school. You can still write on if it is your true passion once you apply.

Bartolomeus

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby Bartolomeus » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:31 pm

Thanks again for the helpful advice. I'm going to consult with family, friends, and faculty members in anticipation of making this decision. My bottom line essentially comes down to this. If the probability of being accepted to Harvard is negligible, then I think I will cut my losses and just apply for Chicago. But, if there is a reasonable chance at the H-bomb, I couldn't help but throw my hat into the ring.

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Joscellin

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby Joscellin » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:58 pm

Bartolomeus wrote:Thanks again for the helpful advice. I'm going to consult with family, friends, and faculty members in anticipation of making this decision. My bottom line essentially comes down to this. If the probability of being accepted to Harvard is negligible, then I think I will cut my losses and just apply for Chicago. But, if there is a reasonable chance at the H-bomb, I couldn't help but throw my hat into the ring.


Do you know your rank? That would help inform the question

Bartolomeus

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby Bartolomeus » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:51 am

Joscellin wrote:
Bartolomeus wrote:Thanks again for the helpful advice. I'm going to consult with family, friends, and faculty members in anticipation of making this decision. My bottom line essentially comes down to this. If the probability of being accepted to Harvard is negligible, then I think I will cut my losses and just apply for Chicago. But, if there is a reasonable chance at the H-bomb, I couldn't help but throw my hat into the ring.


Do you know your rank? That would help inform the question


I'm #3 in my class

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Joscellin

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby Joscellin » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:38 pm

Bartolomeus wrote:
Joscellin wrote:
Bartolomeus wrote:Thanks again for the helpful advice. I'm going to consult with family, friends, and faculty members in anticipation of making this decision. My bottom line essentially comes down to this. If the probability of being accepted to Harvard is negligible, then I think I will cut my losses and just apply for Chicago. But, if there is a reasonable chance at the H-bomb, I couldn't help but throw my hat into the ring.


Do you know your rank? That would help inform the question


I'm #3 in my class


You're probably in the ballpark, then, to have a shot at H. You'll need to repeat your performance, though, and also probably move up a bit. I know multiple #2's or #3's at top 30 schools that got rejected at H this past cycle. That said, I know a few that got in too, so who knows.

I made the decision to roll the dice and it panned out, but I very nearly decided to take the ED route. The tipping point for me was that I was okay with the alternative of staying where I was if I dropped (since I figured I didn't want to transfer below T6).

Best of luck with your decision and your semester!

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CheddarArachnid

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby CheddarArachnid » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:18 pm

Joscellin wrote:
Bartolomeus wrote:
Joscellin wrote:
Bartolomeus wrote:Thanks again for the helpful advice. I'm going to consult with family, friends, and faculty members in anticipation of making this decision. My bottom line essentially comes down to this. If the probability of being accepted to Harvard is negligible, then I think I will cut my losses and just apply for Chicago. But, if there is a reasonable chance at the H-bomb, I couldn't help but throw my hat into the ring.


Do you know your rank? That would help inform the question


I'm #3 in my class


You're probably in the ballpark, then, to have a shot at H. You'll need to repeat your performance, though, and also probably move up a bit. I know multiple #2's or #3's at top 30 schools that got rejected at H this past cycle. That said, I know a few that got in too, so who knows.

I made the decision to roll the dice and it panned out, but I very nearly decided to take the ED route. The tipping point for me was that I was okay with the alternative of staying where I was if I dropped (since I figured I didn't want to transfer below T6).

Best of luck with your decision and your semester!


An even stronger case to go for the prize! Stay strong and go for H!

Bartolomeus

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby Bartolomeus » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:26 pm

CheddarArachnid wrote:
Joscellin wrote:
Bartolomeus wrote:
Joscellin wrote:
Bartolomeus wrote:Thanks again for the helpful advice. I'm going to consult with family, friends, and faculty members in anticipation of making this decision. My bottom line essentially comes down to this. If the probability of being accepted to Harvard is negligible, then I think I will cut my losses and just apply for Chicago. But, if there is a reasonable chance at the H-bomb, I couldn't help but throw my hat into the ring.


Do you know your rank? That would help inform the question


I'm #3 in my class


You're probably in the ballpark, then, to have a shot at H. You'll need to repeat your performance, though, and also probably move up a bit. I know multiple #2's or #3's at top 30 schools that got rejected at H this past cycle. That said, I know a few that got in too, so who knows.

I made the decision to roll the dice and it panned out, but I very nearly decided to take the ED route. The tipping point for me was that I was okay with the alternative of staying where I was if I dropped (since I figured I didn't want to transfer below T6).

Best of luck with your decision and your semester!


An even stronger case to go for the prize! Stay strong and go for H!


You all are awesome for taking the time to advise me. This thread gave me a lot of comfort. Onward!

Nebby

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Re: University of Chicago ED or Wait?

Postby Nebby » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:34 am

Wait and apply to Harvard. There's no reason to ED. It's a waste of your potential



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