T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:33 pm

eyeofvigilence wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I did not transfer. Thank you everyone.


I think you made a mistake. Good luck to you, though.


Legitimate question: with how everything has turned out, do you (or others) still think my choice to stay at my school was a mistake?

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:35 pm

eyeofvigilence wrote:
sflyr2016 wrote:
eyeofvigilence wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I did not transfer. Thank you everyone.


I think you made a mistake. Good luck to you, though.


I bet your opinion will change when OP reports back with an offer from a mkt-paying firm.


Maybe. That's "when" they get an offer. OP would be much more likely to nail the V10 CB if they knew OP was transferring to CLS.


FWIW, most firms I interviewed with knew I had the option of transferring and chose not too. Also, I disagree that attending CLS would have given me any bump in my v10 or v5 interviews. I had an interviewer tell me they rather take me in my position over middle of the class Columbia, every time.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby Redfactor » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:53 pm

Grats OP!

Sounds like you interview very well, too!

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:16 pm

lawman84 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:UPDATE: For anyone who cares, and hopefully this can be of some help to someone who is in my shoes some day, I have received my first offer. I also am running a 100% callback rate so far, and literally have a callback every single day for the next two weeks. Since I last updated I have received a call back at a v5 and a screener at another v5, in addition to my v10 callback. Besides that I have 2 v30 callbacks. A few v50s and v100s (Yes, I know Vault isn't the end all be all, but I need a way to distinguish these).

I am, without a doubt, thrilled that I made the decision to stay at my school. I understand that I took a risk, but it was the same type of risk I took when I decided to attend this school--I was betting on myself. (That being said, I am a firm believer that you should go to a top ranked school if given the opportunity, because looking back, the risk I took to attend a lower ranked school and be at the top of my class was downright stupid) Thank you to everyone who helped me along the way!

Best of luck to everyone during OCI!


Congrats! You made the right decision. Just don't let the "in-crowd" get to you when they chortle at your pitiful degree while they drink their tea and discuss sailing. :wink:

Tea???

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby eyeofvigilence » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
eyeofvigilence wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I did not transfer. Thank you everyone.


I think you made a mistake. Good luck to you, though.


Legitimate question: with how everything has turned out, do you (or others) still think my choice to stay at my school was a mistake?


I think you're fine, but I probably would have transferred. I guess I've never heard of anyone at a TTT getting as many offers as you did (definitely not to burn any TTT students). So yes, I thought it was risky to stay at a TTT expecting BigLaw. Especially because you wouldn't have the normal amount of debt transfers usually have.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby lavarman84 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:28 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:UPDATE: For anyone who cares, and hopefully this can be of some help to someone who is in my shoes some day, I have received my first offer. I also am running a 100% callback rate so far, and literally have a callback every single day for the next two weeks. Since I last updated I have received a call back at a v5 and a screener at another v5, in addition to my v10 callback. Besides that I have 2 v30 callbacks. A few v50s and v100s (Yes, I know Vault isn't the end all be all, but I need a way to distinguish these).

I am, without a doubt, thrilled that I made the decision to stay at my school. I understand that I took a risk, but it was the same type of risk I took when I decided to attend this school--I was betting on myself. (That being said, I am a firm believer that you should go to a top ranked school if given the opportunity, because looking back, the risk I took to attend a lower ranked school and be at the top of my class was downright stupid) Thank you to everyone who helped me along the way!

Best of luck to everyone during OCI!


Congrats! You made the right decision. Just don't let the "in-crowd" get to you when they chortle at your pitiful degree while they drink their tea and discuss sailing. :wink:

Tea???


I was trying to think of something preppy.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:32 pm

lawman84 wrote:I was trying to think of something preppy.

I would vigorously dispute that tea is the appropriate drink there...but then I'd be policing the in-group so I'll just shut up. :)

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby sflyr2016 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:UPDATE: For anyone who cares, and hopefully this can be of some help to someone who is in my shoes some day, I have received my first offer. I also am running a 100% callback rate so far, and literally have a callback every single day for the next two weeks. Since I last updated I have received a call back at a v5 and a screener at another v5, in addition to my v10 callback. Besides that I have 2 v30 callbacks. A few v50s and v100s (Yes, I know Vault isn't the end all be all, but I need a way to distinguish these).

I am, without a doubt, thrilled that I made the decision to stay at my school. I understand that I took a risk, but it was the same type of risk I took when I decided to attend this school--I was betting on myself. (That being said, I am a firm believer that you should go to a top ranked school if given the opportunity, because looking back, the risk I took to attend a lower ranked school and be at the top of my class was downright stupid) Thank you to everyone who helped me along the way!

Best of luck to everyone during OCI!


Congrats OP! That's awesome news!! Very happy it all worked out.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby foregetaboutdre » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:26 am

Congrats OP. I would have probably transferred to not have the pressure of maintaining a top 1-2% class rank. But, looks like everything is well!

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby lavarman84 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:37 am

foregetaboutdre wrote:Congrats OP. I would have probably transferred to not have the pressure of maintaining a top 1-2% class rank. But, looks like everything is well!


Once you get an offer from a firm that is basically a 100% offer firm, you're good.(as long as you're not planning to clerk) If you're top 1-2%, you can stay in the top 5% while putting in minimal effort.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby foregetaboutdre » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:45 am

lawman84 wrote:
foregetaboutdre wrote:Congrats OP. I would have probably transferred to not have the pressure of maintaining a top 1-2% class rank. But, looks like everything is well!


Once you get an offer from a firm that is basically a 100% offer firm, you're good.(as long as you're not planning to clerk) If you're top 1-2%, you can stay in the top 5% while putting in minimal effort.


I'll take your word for it, but I've never been top 5% at my school. Sounds like a lot of work/pressure.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:35 am

eyeofvigilence wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
eyeofvigilence wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I did not transfer. Thank you everyone.


I think you made a mistake. Good luck to you, though.


Legitimate question: with how everything has turned out, do you (or others) still think my choice to stay at my school was a mistake?


I think you're fine, but I probably would have transferred. I guess I've never heard of anyone at a TTT getting as many offers as you did (definitely not to burn any TTT students). So yes, I thought it was risky to stay at a TTT expecting BigLaw. Especially because you wouldn't have the normal amount of debt transfers usually have.


Honestly, I think you're right. It seems that I am the exception here, (and I know how fortunate I am) not the rule. So while I wouldn't advise doing what I did, I felt it was in my best interest not to transfer, knowing what I know about myself and taking into consideration all the pros and cons.

I also worked really hard to become a better interviewer; even when I think most people would have already classified me as an average/above-average interviewer. I think after having gone through this whole experience, the best advice I could give to someone seeking it, is to become the best interviewer you can be because I really felt once I walked into that building for my interview, my school and grades didn't matter anymore.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:38 am

foregetaboutdre wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
foregetaboutdre wrote:Congrats OP. I would have probably transferred to not have the pressure of maintaining a top 1-2% class rank. But, looks like everything is well!


Once you get an offer from a firm that is basically a 100% offer firm, you're good.(as long as you're not planning to clerk) If you're top 1-2%, you can stay in the top 5% while putting in minimal effort.


I'll take your word for it, but I've never been top 5% at my school. Sounds like a lot of work/pressure.


I'll take his/her word for it too, but I'm not going to let up, just in case. Also, I think the fact that I get to start taking courses in the practice areas I think I want to pursue will help me stay near the top.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:40 am

lawman84 wrote:
foregetaboutdre wrote:Congrats OP. I would have probably transferred to not have the pressure of maintaining a top 1-2% class rank. But, looks like everything is well!


Once you get an offer from a firm that is basically a 100% offer firm, you're good.(as long as you're not planning to clerk) If you're top 1-2%, you can stay in the top 5% while putting in minimal effort.


What do you mean by "as long as you're not planning to clerk"? How would that change whether "you're good" because I want to be good and may or may not pursue a clerkship haha

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby lavarman84 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
foregetaboutdre wrote:Congrats OP. I would have probably transferred to not have the pressure of maintaining a top 1-2% class rank. But, looks like everything is well!


Once you get an offer from a firm that is basically a 100% offer firm, you're good.(as long as you're not planning to clerk) If you're top 1-2%, you can stay in the top 5% while putting in minimal effort.


What do you mean by "as long as you're not planning to clerk"? How would that change whether "you're good" because I want to be good and may or may not pursue a clerkship haha


Biglaw firms hire during the fall. They only have access to 1L grades. You may or may not get a clerkship in the fall. And even if you do, you might get one with a judge who stipulates that you have to keep your grades up (and means it). Biglaw firms typically stipulate that, but they don't really mean it.(obviously, you can't go from As to Cs, but they're not going to drop you because you went from top 1% to top 5%)

Plus, if you get a clerkship, you likely will be looking for a job at the end of it. So your grades will matter.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:50 am

lawman84 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
foregetaboutdre wrote:Congrats OP. I would have probably transferred to not have the pressure of maintaining a top 1-2% class rank. But, looks like everything is well!


Once you get an offer from a firm that is basically a 100% offer firm, you're good.(as long as you're not planning to clerk) If you're top 1-2%, you can stay in the top 5% while putting in minimal effort.


What do you mean by "as long as you're not planning to clerk"? How would that change whether "you're good" because I want to be good and may or may not pursue a clerkship haha


Biglaw firms hire during the fall. They only have access to 1L grades. You may or may not get a clerkship in the fall. And even if you do, you might get one with a judge who stipulates that you have to keep your grades up (and means it). Biglaw firms typically stipulate that, but they don't really mean it.(obviously, you can't go from As to Cs, but they're not going to drop you because you went from top 1% to top 5%)

Plus, if you get a clerkship, you likely will be looking for a job at the end of it. So your grades will matter.


Interesting. Great to know that. Thank You!

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby eyeofvigilence » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:
eyeofvigilence wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
eyeofvigilence wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I did not transfer. Thank you everyone.


I think you made a mistake. Good luck to you, though.


Legitimate question: with how everything has turned out, do you (or others) still think my choice to stay at my school was a mistake?


I think you're fine, but I probably would have transferred. I guess I've never heard of anyone at a TTT getting as many offers as you did (definitely not to burn any TTT students). So yes, I thought it was risky to stay at a TTT expecting BigLaw. Especially because you wouldn't have the normal amount of debt transfers usually have.


Honestly, I think you're right. It seems that I am the exception here, (and I know how fortunate I am) not the rule. So while I wouldn't advise doing what I did, I felt it was in my best interest not to transfer, knowing what I know about myself and taking into consideration all the pros and cons.

I also worked really hard to become a better interviewer; even when I think most people would have already classified me as an average/above-average interviewer. I think after having gone through this whole experience, the best advice I could give to someone seeking it, is to become the best interviewer you can be because I really felt once I walked into that building for my interview, my school and grades didn't matter anymore.


Well, I gotta give it to you. You locked it down.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby sflyr2016 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:08 pm

Yes OP has more pressure to keep grades up, but: (1) it's much easier to get good grades after 1l, and (2) it's not worth paying 100k+ to simply make law school easier. Also, I've heard of very few firms ever asking for your grades after oci.

OP you 100% made the right decision. Hopefully you can help others in the next transfer cycle as your experience may help them make a more informed decision.
Last edited by sflyr2016 on Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:53 am

sflyr2016 wrote:Yes OP has more pressure to keep grades up, but: (1) it's much easier to get good grades after 1l, and (2) it's not worth paying 100k+ to simply make law school easier. Also, I've heard of very few firms ever asking for your grades after oci.

OP you 100% made the right decision. Hopefully you can help others in the next transfer cycle with their decision as your experience may help others make a more informed decision.


I will certainly help those in similar situations next cycle. Also, interesting new wrinkle, I was denied at one of MVP (not that it matters, but just providing some anecdotal support for next years transfers).

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby rpupkin » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:08 am

sflyr2016 wrote:Yes OP has more pressure to keep grades up

Why?

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby sflyr2016 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:17 pm

rpupkin wrote:
sflyr2016 wrote:Yes OP has more pressure to keep grades up

Why?


Lateral opportunities.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby ThatOneAfrican » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:36 pm

Man that was a great read. Glad it had a happy ending :)

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby rpupkin » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:46 pm

sflyr2016 wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
sflyr2016 wrote:Yes OP has more pressure to keep grades up

Why?


Lateral opportunities.

I don't see it. Many firms don't care about grades when hiring laterals. Those that do will likely care about 2L/3L grades at CLS as well, so the same "pressure" would exist to get good grades at CLS. If a firm is willing to hire a lateral who graduated from a TTT school, they're going to be far more interested in the firm the OP came from than whether he was top 2% or top 5% or top 12% at his TTT. Although the OP's outstanding grades helped him get callbacks after his first year of law school, they're not going to be all that important when/if he decides to go on the lateral market.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby sflyr2016 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:36 pm

rpupkin wrote:
sflyr2016 wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
sflyr2016 wrote:Yes OP has more pressure to keep grades up

Why?


Lateral opportunities.

I don't see it. Many firms don't care about grades when hiring laterals. Those that do will likely care about 2L/3L grades at CLS as well, so the same "pressure" would exist to get good grades at CLS. If a firm is willing to hire a lateral who graduated from a TTT school, they're going to be far more interested in the firm the OP came from than whether he was top 2% or top 5% or top 12% at his TTT. Although the OP's outstanding grades helped him get callbacks after his first year of law school, they're not going to be all that important when/if he decides to go on the lateral market.


You're probably right.

OP, enjoy the hell out of your last two years.

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Re: T3 v CLS - Is there ever a reason not to go?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:43 pm

OP here. Update: I have accepted an offer at a v5.

Final stats:

CBs --> Offer - 4/4
Screeners --> CBs - 7
Screeners cancelled - 4
Callbacks cancelled - 5

Feels great to be done. Thank you, TLS. Good luck to everyone out there grinding.



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