T14 Transfer Application General Requirements, Info, and FAQ

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sandwhich
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T14 Transfer Application General Requirements, Info, and FAQ

Postby sandwhich » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:22 am

I thought this may be useful. I know some of this is in the sticky, but some of the schools have particular or odd requirements . I will continue to update this and will add anecdotes from older threads on this website as I come across them or people post them. Any help with missing/incorrect information would be appreciated. Also, let me know if there is any other information that would be helpful.

Yale
Application Open:
Application Deadline:
Fee:
Personal Statement:
Certifications Required:
Letters of Rec. Required:

Harvard
Application Open: April 1st
Application Deadline:
Fee: $85
Personal Statement :"...address your reasons for applying for transfer. A need to be located in the area may be relevant and should be discussed if app."
Certifications Required: (1) Undergraduate Degree Granting Institution and (2) Law School
Letters of Rec. Required: 2 (at least 1 from a law professor)

Stanford
Application Open: Mid-March
Application Deadline:
Fee: $100
Personal Statement: "describe important aspects of yourself not otherwise apparent in your application and provides your reasons for wishing to transfer to Stanford"
Certifications Required:
Letters of Rec. Required: 2 (at least 1 from a law professor)

University of Chicago
Application Open: April 15th
Application Deadline: May 15th (ED)/ July 1st (RD)
Fee: $75
Personal Statement: "include an explanation of why you want to study law at Chicago"
Certifications Required: Law School Information Form
Letters of Rec. Required: (at least 1 from a law professor)
Extras: Possible interview

Columbia University
Application Open: May 1st
Application Deadline: July 15th
Fee: $85
Personal Statement: "why seeking transfer to Columbia"
Certifications Required: Dean’s Appraisal/Cert.; Faculty Appraisal
Letters of Rec. Required: 2 (BOTH from law professors)

New York University
Application Open: "Early May"
Application Deadline: July 1st
Fee: $85
Personal Statement: 1 page on subject of your choice
Certifications Required: Law School Certification
Letters of Rec. Required: 0 (but may submit)
Extras: College Questionnaire

University of Virginia
Application Open: May 11th
Application Deadline: June 15th
Fee: $80
Personal Statement:
Certifications Required: Law School Letter of Good Standing
Letters of Rec. Required: 2 (at least 1 from a law professor)

University of Pennsylvania
Application Open: May 1st (??)
Application Deadline: June 15th
Fee: $80
Personal Statement: "submit info you deem important to your candidacy. You may wish to describe aspects of your background and interests-- intellectual, personal, or professional--and how you will uniquely contribute to the Penn Law comm.and/or the legal profession. limit to two pages"
Certifications Required: Letter of good standing from the law school dean at the current law school
Letters of Rec. Required: 2 (both law professors)
Extras: Optional essay based on one of a few supplied topics

Duke University
Application Open: April 1st
Application Deadline: July 1st
Fee: $70
Personal Statement: "The statement should focus on the specific resources and opportunities at Duke Law School that will further your legal career goals, as well as the contributions you might make as a member of the Duke Law School community. There is no required length"
Certifications Required: Law School Letter of Good Standing
Letters of Rec. Required: 2 (BOTH law professors)

University of California - Berkeley
Application Open: April 1st
Application Deadline: June 15th
Fee: $75
Personal Statement: "2-4 pages, provide some insight on your background and your potential contribution to classroom dialogue and scholarly research. An indication of why you wish to transfer to Berkeley may be included"
Certifications Required:
Letters of Rec. Required: 2 (law professors), More than two letters is discouraged

Northwestern University
Application Open: June 1st
Application Deadline: July 2nd
Fee: $75
Personal Statement: "introduce yourself to the Admissions Committee. You may discuss, among other topics, personal or professional goals and personal, academic, or career history."
Certifications Required: Letter of good standing
Letters of Rec. Required: 1 (law professor)
Extras: Writing Sample

Cornell University
Application Open: Mid-Late April
Application Deadline: Mid-July
Fee: $80
Personal Statement:
Certifications Required: Letter from Dean’s office-good academic standing
Letters of Rec. Required: 2 (BOTH from law professors)
Extras: Law School Report??, two completed LSAC evaluations (optional)

University of Michigan
Application Open: May 1st
Application Deadline: July 17th
Fee: $75
Personal Statement:
Certifications Required: Letter of Good Standing
Letters of Rec. Required: A letter of academic recommendation from a faculty member at your current law school who has had you as a student

Georgetown University Law Center
Application Open: Feb. 17th
Application Deadline: March 15th (ED)/June 15th (RD)
Fee: $85
Personal Statement: background, goals, and reasons for requesting the transfer
Certifications Required: Law School Certification (GULC provides one to print)
Letters of Rec. Required: Min. 1 (Law professor)

TLS Transfer Class of 2017
Stats:
Schools Applied:
Schools Admitted:
School Attending:
Last edited by sandwhich on Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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djbatista
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby djbatista » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:25 pm

Thanks man great post. My cycle hasn't gone exactly the way I wanted, and I'm already planning my possible transfer as a 1L. Anyone have advice on how to prepare for LSAT while in law school or if I should even consider transferring in the first place. Like is it even worth it?

sandwhich
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby sandwhich » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:32 pm

djbatista wrote:Thanks man great post. My cycle hasn't gone exactly the way I wanted, and I'm already planning my possible transfer as a 1L. Anyone have advice on how to prepare for LSAT while in law school or if I should even consider transferring in the first place. Like is it even worth it?


As a forewarning, people are going to tell you this forum isn't for 0L's.

Anecdotally, however, DO. NOT. go to law school with the intention of transferring. Law school grading is arbitrary and it is literally impossible to know where you will end up in the class. Do not attend an institution you are not prepared to graduate from.

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djbatista
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby djbatista » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:41 pm

I've heard that it's a lot of reading and memorizing but is it really your opinion that it's arbitrary and studying hard won't necessarily help you? Also, to what degree does the LSAT actually translate into law school performance?

sandwhich
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby sandwhich » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:43 pm

djbatista wrote:I've heard that it's a lot of reading and memorizing but is it really your opinion that it's arbitrary and studying hard won't necessarily help you? Also, to what degree does the LSAT actually translate into law school performance?


Statistics say LSAT is a 9-20% predictor of performance, which is basically none at all.

And yes, I'm absolutely certain it is arbitrary. A good friend of mine studied her ass off (significantly more than me) and got the lowest grade in the class. This is not uncommon. People are always shellshocked because they did significantly better or worse than the expected (as I was).

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djbatista
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby djbatista » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:04 pm

Thanks for the input man. I know this really isn't the place for it, but any advice for studying and staying on track in law school?

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby Capitol_Idea » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:08 pm

djbatista wrote:Thanks for the input man. I know this really isn't the place for it, but any advice for studying and staying on track in law school?


1. Take notes on paper and pen - you absorb and translate the materials better than when you just transcribe on laptop.

2. Put the laptop away. It is a distraction.

3. Go to class. All of them. Pay attention.

4. Do the reading. All of it.

5. (this one's a little more controversial, take with a grain of salt) - Avoid commercial outlines. You're being tested on what the professor wants you to know. The professor and the assigned reading are accordingly all you should need. What you don't understand, ask the professor about - that's what office hours are for. Make your own outline for exam prep - the more you struggle with the readings and try to understand the bigger picture, the more naturally it will come on exam time.

6. Take practice exams if previous exams/answers are available. You'll get a feel for how the professor gives exams, what they want in answers, and your ability to work in the time limit.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby zombie mcavoy » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:14 pm

djbatista wrote:Thanks man great post. My cycle hasn't gone exactly the way I wanted, and I'm already planning my possible transfer as a 1L. Anyone have advice on how to prepare for LSAT while in law school or if I should even consider transferring in the first place. Like is it even worth it?

this is a terrible idea. stop considering it.

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djbatista
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby djbatista » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:20 pm

zacharus85 wrote:
djbatista wrote:Thanks for the input man. I know this really isn't the place for it, but any advice for studying and staying on track in law school?


1. Take notes on paper and pen - you absorb and translate the materials better than when you just transcribe on laptop.

2. Put the laptop away. It is a distraction.

3. Go to class. All of them. Pay attention.

4. Do the reading. All of it.

5. (this one's a little more controversial, take with a grain of salt) - Avoid commercial outlines. You're being tested on what the professor wants you to know. The professor and the assigned reading are accordingly all you should need. What you don't understand, ask the professor about - that's what office hours are for. Make your own outline for exam prep - the more you struggle with the readings and try to understand the bigger picture, the more naturally it will come on exam time.

6. Take practice exams if previous exams/answers are available. You'll get a feel for how the professor gives exams, what they want in answers, and your ability to work in the time limit.


Thank you. Also to Zombie, why is it a terrible idea?

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby Capitol_Idea » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:22 pm

zombie mcavoy wrote:
djbatista wrote:Thanks man great post. My cycle hasn't gone exactly the way I wanted, and I'm already planning my possible transfer as a 1L. Anyone have advice on how to prepare for LSAT while in law school or if I should even consider transferring in the first place. Like is it even worth it?

this is a terrible idea. stop considering it.


oh, I almost forgot. That. What he said. Times a million.

jphiggo
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby jphiggo » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:26 pm

djbatista wrote:
zacharus85 wrote:
djbatista wrote:Thanks for the input man. I know this really isn't the place for it, but any advice for studying and staying on track in law school?


1. Take notes on paper and pen - you absorb and translate the materials better than when you just transcribe on laptop.

2. Put the laptop away. It is a distraction.

3. Go to class. All of them. Pay attention.

4. Do the reading. All of it.

5. (this one's a little more controversial, take with a grain of salt) - Avoid commercial outlines. You're being tested on what the professor wants you to know. The professor and the assigned reading are accordingly all you should need. What you don't understand, ask the professor about - that's what office hours are for. Make your own outline for exam prep - the more you struggle with the readings and try to understand the bigger picture, the more naturally it will come on exam time.

6. Take practice exams if previous exams/answers are available. You'll get a feel for how the professor gives exams, what they want in answers, and your ability to work in the time limit.


Thank you. Also to Zombie, why is it a terrible idea?


Attending some place with a plan to transfer will likely not work out for you. You cannot guarantee the grades needed to transfer. It's easier to sit out a cycle, improve your LSAT score, and get in to the school that you want.

Anyways, back on topic...

Thanks for making this thread, super helpful!

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby zombie mcavoy » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:30 pm

it should kind of be self evident.

even the best case scenario you're drowning in debt and you've exerted far far far more effort than would have been required to simply get a few more questions correct on a stupid multiple choice test. I don't really want to write about this b/c it's been beaten to death. It's a basic law of tls; it's as basic as like "don't kill people"

sandwhich
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby sandwhich » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:53 pm

jphiggo wrote:Thanks for making this thread, super helpful!


Thanks! Let me know if any other info would be helpful.

jphiggo
Posts: 232
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby jphiggo » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:58 pm

sandwhich wrote:
jphiggo wrote:Thanks for making this thread, super helpful!


Thanks! Let me know if any other info would be helpful.


Will do! You might consider transforming it into a "TLS Transfer Cycle 2015 (Class of 2017)" thread for this year. Although, that is if you have the time/desire to mod it. I hear it can be time consuming.

sandwhich
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby sandwhich » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:02 pm

jphiggo wrote:
sandwhich wrote:
jphiggo wrote:Thanks for making this thread, super helpful!


Thanks! Let me know if any other info would be helpful.


Will do! You might consider transforming it into a "TLS Transfer Cycle 2015 (Class of 2017)" thread for this year. Although, that is if you have the time/desire to mod it. I hear it can be time consuming.


I don't mind, I spend inordinate amounts of time on this website anyway.

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butlerraider1
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby butlerraider1 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:55 pm

Tag. Great Thread

Transfer247
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby Transfer247 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:23 pm

sandwhich wrote:
djbatista wrote:Thanks man great post. My cycle hasn't gone exactly the way I wanted, and I'm already planning my possible transfer as a 1L. Anyone have advice on how to prepare for LSAT while in law school or if I should even consider transferring in the first place. Like is it even worth it?


As a forewarning, people are going to tell you this forum isn't for 0L's.

Anecdotally, however, DO. NOT. go to law school with the intention of transferring. Law school grading is arbitrary and it is literally impossible to know where you will end up in the class. Do not attend an institution you are not prepared to graduate from.



I'm sick of people saying this. Why not go to law school with the intention of transferring? Because the grading is somewhat subjective? Sure, this is true, but if you can figure out how to write exams as the professor pleases, you'll do well. I see nothing wrong with going to a school with the intention of transferring because 1) you will work harder and 2) it is unlikely that you are going to increase your LSAT score high enough to get into a school you really want, so why not try to be in the top of your class and get into that top school. This blog consist of a lot of useful information but also a lot of bullshit that does not apply to everyone. You can have all the advice in the world but it ultimately comes down to you and what you are capable of doing.

transferihope
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby transferihope » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:47 pm

Transfer247 wrote:
sandwhich wrote:
djbatista wrote:Thanks man great post. My cycle hasn't gone exactly the way I wanted, and I'm already planning my possible transfer as a 1L. Anyone have advice on how to prepare for LSAT while in law school or if I should even consider transferring in the first place. Like is it even worth it?


As a forewarning, people are going to tell you this forum isn't for 0L's.

Anecdotally, however, DO. NOT. go to law school with the intention of transferring. Law school grading is arbitrary and it is literally impossible to know where you will end up in the class. Do not attend an institution you are not prepared to graduate from.



I'm sick of people saying this. Why not go to law school with the intention of transferring? Because the grading is somewhat subjective? Sure, this is true, but if you can figure out how to write exams as the professor pleases, you'll do well. I see nothing wrong with going to a school with the intention of transferring because 1) you will work harder and 2) it is unlikely that you are going to increase your LSAT score high enough to get into a school you really want, so why not try to be in the top of your class and get into that top school. This blog consist of a lot of useful information but also a lot of bullshit that does not apply to everyone. You can have all the advice in the world but it ultimately comes down to you and what you are capable of doing.


I think the idea would be that you have no way of knowing how you're capable of doing until after you go through your first cycle of exams. At that point, if you don't do as well as you expected/hoped, it's already too late.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby zombie mcavoy » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:58 pm

Transfer247 wrote:I'm sick of people saying this. Why not go to law school with the intention of transferring? Because the grading is somewhat subjective? Sure, this is true, but if you can figure out how to write exams as the professor pleases, you'll do well. I see nothing wrong with going to a school with the intention of transferring because 1) you will work harder and 2) it is unlikely that you are going to increase your LSAT score high enough to get into a school you really want, so why not try to be in the top of your class and get into that top school. This blog consist of a lot of useful information but also a lot of bullshit that does not apply to everyone. You can have all the advice in the world but it ultimately comes down to you and what you are capable of doing.

1. Hard work, very simply, does not entail good grades. Are you a 0L? I don't see how anyone who has gone through 1L could say this. Everyone works hard. There are very diminishing returns at some point.

2. Everyone is trying to do well at every school.

3. You have no idea what you are capable of doing in law school as a 0L. The only objective indicators are LSAT and GPA, and they are not indicators that support someone's TTTT -> T14 plan.

4. As I said, even the best case scenario for a transfer is typically not great, as you always have two years of sticker debt. And employers at OCI will only judge you based on where you went for 1L.

5. TLS is not a blog. It's a forum.

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pamphleteer
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby pamphleteer » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:18 pm

zombie mcavoy wrote:
Transfer247 wrote:I'm sick of people saying this. Why not go to law school with the intention of transferring? Because the grading is somewhat subjective? Sure, this is true, but if you can figure out how to write exams as the professor pleases, you'll do well. I see nothing wrong with going to a school with the intention of transferring because 1) you will work harder and 2) it is unlikely that you are going to increase your LSAT score high enough to get into a school you really want, so why not try to be in the top of your class and get into that top school. This blog consist of a lot of useful information but also a lot of bullshit that does not apply to everyone. You can have all the advice in the world but it ultimately comes down to you and what you are capable of doing.

1. Hard work, very simply, does not entail good grades. Are you a 0L? I don't see how anyone who has gone through 1L could say this. Everyone works hard. There are very diminishing returns at some point.

2. Everyone is trying to do well at every school.

3. You have no idea what you are capable of doing in law school as a 0L. The only objective indicators are LSAT and GPA, and they are not indicators that support someone's TTTT -> T14 plan.

4. As I said, even the best case scenario for a transfer is typically not great, as you always have two years of sticker debt. And employers at OCI will only judge you based on where you went for 1L.

5. TLS is not a blog. It's a forum.


Is this really true? Then what's even the point of transferring?

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby zombie mcavoy » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:27 pm

So far as I have been told it, both by several TLSers who have transferred and a few biglaw attorneys who work on hiring committees, yes.

Thus, transferring makes sense in a limited number of circumstances. Basically 1) if you have personal circumstances arise that require you to be in a different region (i.e. a notorious RBG transfer) or 2) your career goals or geographic preferences change and your 1L school makes fulfillment of those goals very difficult (or I suppose a 3) where you're already paying a ton of money at a TTT so why not). What I've been told is basically that, if you don't have the grades to be considered for biglaw at your current school, transferring won't do you much, or any, good. You transfer to get additional access to firms or cities that wouldn't normally recruit your 1L school.

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cyrilfiggis
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby cyrilfiggis » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:38 pm

zombie mcavoy wrote:So far as I have been told it, both by several TLSers who have transferred and a few biglaw attorneys who work on hiring committees, yes.

Thus, transferring makes sense in a limited number of circumstances. Basically 1) if you have personal circumstances arise that require you to be in a different region (i.e. a notorious RBG transfer) or 2) your career goals or geographic preferences change and your 1L school makes fulfillment of those goals very difficult (or I suppose a 3) where you're already paying a ton of money at a TTT so why not). What I've been told is basically that, if you don't have the grades to be considered for biglaw at your current school, transferring won't do you much, or any, good. You transfer to get additional access to firms or cities that wouldn't normally recruit your 1L school.


When you say "grades to be considered for biglaw at your current school" do you mean that your grades would get you considered for biglaw from your pre-transfer school? Or grades that would get you considered for biglaw from your post-transfer school?

Obviously if your GPA isn't up to cutoffs for firms post-transfer it wouldn't matter much but if you were able to transfer to a t-14 isn't it implied that your grades would be good.

Transfer247
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby Transfer247 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:39 pm

zombie mcavoy wrote:
Transfer247 wrote:I'm sick of people saying this. Why not go to law school with the intention of transferring? Because the grading is somewhat subjective? Sure, this is true, but if you can figure out how to write exams as the professor pleases, you'll do well. I see nothing wrong with going to a school with the intention of transferring because 1) you will work harder and 2) it is unlikely that you are going to increase your LSAT score high enough to get into a school you really want, so why not try to be in the top of your class and get into that top school. This blog consist of a lot of useful information but also a lot of bullshit that does not apply to everyone. You can have all the advice in the world but it ultimately comes down to you and what you are capable of doing.

1. Hard work, very simply, does not entail good grades. Are you a 0L? I don't see how anyone who has gone through 1L could say this. Everyone works hard. There are very diminishing returns at some point.

2. Everyone is trying to do well at every school.

3. You have no idea what you are capable of doing in law school as a 0L. The only objective indicators are LSAT and GPA, and they are not indicators that support someone's TTTT -> T14 plan.

4. As I said, even the best case scenario for a transfer is typically not great, as you always have two years of sticker debt. And employers at OCI will only judge you based on where you went for 1L.

5. TLS is not a blog. It's a forum.



I'm a 1L and I am not saying that hard work correlates into the top of the class. I am simply saying that I think it is absurd to push back going to law school because you want to do better on your LSAT, which you also have no idea if you're capable of doing. Also, I don't think it's wrong to attend a cheap lower tier school with the intent of transferring, instead of attending a higher tier school that costs more merely because "you wouldn't mind graduating from there" as the majority of you say in this "forum".

I simply disagree with the general rule that it is not smart to go to law school with the intention of transferring. I think it depends on the circumstance and the person.

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lhanvt13
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby lhanvt13 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:40 pm

pamphleteer wrote:
zombie mcavoy wrote:
Transfer247 wrote:I'm sick of people saying this. Why not go to law school with the intention of transferring? Because the grading is somewhat subjective? Sure, this is true, but if you can figure out how to write exams as the professor pleases, you'll do well. I see nothing wrong with going to a school with the intention of transferring because 1) you will work harder and 2) it is unlikely that you are going to increase your LSAT score high enough to get into a school you really want, so why not try to be in the top of your class and get into that top school. This blog consist of a lot of useful information but also a lot of bullshit that does not apply to everyone. You can have all the advice in the world but it ultimately comes down to you and what you are capable of doing.

1. Hard work, very simply, does not entail good grades. Are you a 0L? I don't see how anyone who has gone through 1L could say this. Everyone works hard. There are very diminishing returns at some point.

2. Everyone is trying to do well at every school.

3. You have no idea what you are capable of doing in law school as a 0L. The only objective indicators are LSAT and GPA, and they are not indicators that support someone's TTTT -> T14 plan.

4. As I said, even the best case scenario for a transfer is typically not great, as you always have two years of sticker debt. And
employers at OCI will only judge you based on where you went for 1L.

5. TLS is not a blog. It's a forum.


Is this really true? Then what's even the point of transferring?

as per the bold, I disagree. plenty of transfers at my school from TT, TTT are at V10s some V5s. Don't think they would have gotten those employment options out of their previous school.

sandwhich
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Re: T14 Transfer Application General Requirements and Info

Postby sandwhich » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:49 pm

I think enough people have defended my post that I don't need to go into any more detail. But I will say, as has been said, everyone goes to law school with the intention of doing well. Just because you want to and, even if you want to more than someone else, doesn't mean you'll do better than that person.




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