Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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BarristerBull
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Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby BarristerBull » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:30 pm

Hi all,

Sorry this is my first post, but I’ve been poking around here for a while. I’ve read most of the pros/cons of transferring from a T4 school, and I haven’t found any that directly address my situation so I figured I would give it a shot.

I’m a non-traditional student and I have no desire to practice outside of Florida, so I know UF would be a pretty sure bet. I have a family with a full-time working spouse and a toddler in the city where I’m attending law school, so that’s a consideration. I’ve been offered the support I need if I decide to transfer, I just need an objective opinion on why someone in my spot would be better off transferring.

I had a previous career (10 years) in a law-related field with mild local contacts and upward mobility, but it wasn’t where I wanted to be in the long run and the probability for financial satisfaction was low to say the least…so I have somewhat of a jump start from someone coming straight out of undergrad with no work/life experience.

My 1L GPA so far is a 3.9 (all A’s plus book award) on a C (2.0) curve at my local T4, so I think that will at least get my foot in the door at UF. The con would be loss of scholarship money (I’m getting about 75% now plus I don’t pay living expenses) so my loan size would pretty much double. Is it worth it for someone in my situation to bite the bullet and put the family through a 2 year headache and take on the extra loans? Would my job prospects (which is really what I care about) increase dramatically? Basically, is it worth it in the long run to deal with a 2-year headache for potentially much better job prospects in FL?

Thanks!

TheNextAmendment
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby TheNextAmendment » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:13 pm

Please don't transfer. A 3.9 on a 2.0 curve is easily top 1-5% of your class. IMO- you should only transfer if you were trying to get into a top school with national reach to open more doors in your future. However, you want to stay in FL forever, have a family, are on a 75% scholarship, and have a 3.9 gpa. All of these things strongly cut against a transfer. However, you are in a great position to negotiate more scholarship money from your current school. Put in transfer applications to UF and even some T14 schools and then go to the Dean and request a full scholarship. You are a strong asset to your T4's job placement for your graduating year. Assuming there are no other issues, I think you have a 90%+ shot of getting a full scholarship and possibly even a stipend. GL and congrats.

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Nebby
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby Nebby » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:04 pm

Transfer.

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runinthefront
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby runinthefront » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:23 pm

TheNextAmendment wrote:Please don't transfer. A 3.9 on a 2.0 curve is easily top 1-5% of your class. IMO- you should only transfer if you were trying to get into a top school with national reach to open more doors in your future. However, you want to stay in FL forever, have a family, are on a 75% scholarship, and have a 3.9 gpa. All of these things strongly cut against a transfer. However, you are in a great position to negotiate more scholarship money from your current school. Put in transfer applications to UF and even some T14 schools and then go to the Dean and request a full scholarship. You are a strong asset to your T4's job placement for your graduating year. Assuming there are no other issues, I think you have a 90%+ shot of getting a full scholarship and possibly even a stipend. GL and congrats.


OP, assuming you're at Barry/St. Thomas/Ave Maria/FAMU/Florida Coastal/Cooley, you need to transfer and never look back.

If you're content with staying in Florida, you should apply to both FSU/UF + T14 and go to whichever one is the cheapest.

Don't stay at any of those schools, even if you're #1 in your class on a full-ride.

I don't think TheNextAmendment is aware of how bad some of these Florida schools are. They're not your typical TTT.

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runinthefront
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby runinthefront » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:26 pm

If you're at Nova/FIU, I would negotiate for a full-ride and stay put. You're just going to have to hustle. My good friend graduated at the top of his class (and I mean the top) a few years ago from one of the "better" Florida TTTs and he legitimately struck out. I can't make this up.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:35 pm

The best way to get an answer is to apply to several schools as a transfer student. This should let your current school know that you are seriously considering a move. Apply to UF & to a few T-14 law schools & your options should become much more clear.

As to whether or not transferring is worthwhile based on the info shared in this thread, there is just too little information; for example, if your immediate career goal is to clerk for a Florida judge, then UFlorida may be a great option worth 2 years extra cost & sacrifice. In short, too little info regarding your career goals & your personal situation, in my opinion. Also, having a young child--a toddler--should be a major concern. Will your family relocate with you ? Can your spouse find similiar work easily ? Do you currently depend upon relatives for childcare ? Etc.


BarristerBull
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby BarristerBull » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:02 pm

runinthefront wrote:OP, assuming you're at Barry/St. Thomas/Ave Maria/FAMU/Florida Coastal/Cooley, you need to transfer and never look back.

I'm at one of these schools.

TheNextAmendment:
Thanks and realistically the only issue I have with the school is the name on the building. It's unfortunate but undeniable. I'm not the least bit unhappy with the quality of education. Immediate, post-JD job prospects and future marketability are my main concerns.

CanadianWolf:
I have no interest in a judicial clerkship. I spent 10 years in a public service career so I really have no interest in going back unless it's absolutely necessary to gain practical experience (that I couldn't get at a firm). I'm mainly interested in a job at a medium to large law firm or a smaller firm with large growth prospects. I don't really have a particular practice area in mind just yet. My family would stay put while I went to class during the week and drove home on the weekends. No real negotiating there...it's UF or bust.

Thanks to everyone for the advice thus far.
Last edited by BarristerBull on Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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baal hadad
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby baal hadad » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:04 pm

If you're from one of those schools you need to get the hell out

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby JohannDeMann » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:26 pm

yeah i saw the word family and thats enough to know - get the fuck out. this aint the time to try and play hero ball with low debt good job outcome. you need to maximize the chance of a good job or any good job at no matter what the cost. get the hell out of there!

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby MarkfromWI » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:42 am

BarristerBull wrote: Thanks and realistically the only issue I have with the school is the name on the building. It's unfortunate but undeniable. I'm not the least bit unhappy with the quality of education. Immediate, post-JD job prospects and future marketability are my main concerns.


That says it all. Get out. I transferred for the exact same reason. Granted, I wasn't at any of the schools you may be at, but still. The name on the diploma will follow you for the rest of your life, don't let it be an anchor dragging you down.


I have no interest in a judicial clerkship. I spent 10 years in a public service career so I really have no interest in going back unless it's absolutely necessary to gain practical experience (that I couldn't get at a firm).

You really should keep your mind open to a judicial clerkship- They're are a hell of a thing to have on a resume. It's not just about public service. Not only do you get great practical experience, it is a line item on your resume that may well be the difference between getting the job you want and not getting it. Also, since you don't have a particular practice area in mind yet, they provide exposure to a wide array of law that might help you realize where your interests are. Food for thought.

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Cicero76
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby Cicero76 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:56 am

Fly, you fool.

TheNextAmendment
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby TheNextAmendment » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:59 am

I was shocked by these responses until I saw the cost of UF for in-state ($22k with low COL). At the same time however, only 12% of UF grads secure jobs in firms with over 100 attorneys. You all recommend that OP transfer and take on an additional 30-40k for a 12% chance of biglaw? Won't employers at UF OCI be suspect about OP's T4 status anyways?

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby JohannDeMann » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:21 pm

The 12% chance at biglaw isnt the issue. The issue is getting a lawyer job. Lots of other lawyer jobs exist. The goal is to be employed, period.

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Cicero76
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby Cicero76 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:30 pm

TheNextAmendment wrote:I was shocked by these responses until I saw the cost of UF for in-state ($22k with low COL). At the same time however, only 12% of UF grads secure jobs in firms with over 100 attorneys. You all recommend that OP transfer and take on an additional 30-40k for a 12% chance of biglaw? Won't employers at UF OCI be suspect about OP's T4 status anyways?


It's better than staying at the school he's at now, where his chance at any job ever hovers around 0% and sticks with him for life.

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twenty 8
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby twenty 8 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:04 pm

Two years ago I was in a situation similar to yours. Free ride at my hometown Fla TTT (now TT) with no COL. Result was that I landed a SA which turned into an offer (6 figs). I work alongside T14 associates who are sadly saddled with paying thousands every month to cover their hefty tuition debt.

You should check with area/regional firms (via their web sites) and find out if they hire students from your school (and if their OCI recruiting includes your school) before you make a costly mistake because of some perceived benefit.

BarristerBull
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby BarristerBull » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:07 pm

TheNextAmendment wrote:I was shocked by these responses until I saw the cost of UF for in-state ($22k with low COL). At the same time however, only 12% of UF grads secure jobs in firms with over 100 attorneys. You all recommend that OP transfer and take on an additional 30-40k for a 12% chance of biglaw? Won't employers at UF OCI be suspect about OP's T4 status anyways?

Gainesville is a college town so I would imagine amenities are geared more towards students (though I think the COL numbers are still a bit conservative). I would expect to may at least the estimated COL, if not a little more. My goal isn't necessarily Biglaw, but a larger firm where I have more opportunities and can gain a wide array of experience. The T4 issue regarding my status doesn't worry me. I think I could easily explain it away. I was admitted everywhere I applied (which included UM and Stetson) but for family reasons (spending 3 years away, among other things) was out. I've managed to negotiate the latter 2 on the grounds of future job prospects.

JohannDeMann wrote:The 12% chance at biglaw isnt the issue. The issue is getting a lawyer job. Lots of other lawyer jobs exist. The goal is to be employed, period.

Yes to this, but I'm also not looking for a job in the public sector (with notably less starting pay). The pay scales weren't too terribly different with the career that I left. On qualifications alone I think I have a fair shot at most firms in the area, my only issue is the stigma that surrounds the name of the school. Most employers (and I've talked to a few) seem to have that as #1 on their list of questions for potential applicants...before they even bother to ask anything else. That speaks for itself.

twenty 8 wrote:Two years ago I was in a situation similar to yours. Free ride at my hometown Fla TTT (now TT) with no COL. Result was that I landed a SA which turned into an offer (6 figs). I work alongside T14 associates who are sadly saddled with paying thousands every month to cover their hefty tuition debt.

You should check with area/regional firms (via their web sites) and find out if they hire students from your school (and if their OCI recruiting includes your school) before you make a costly mistake because of some perceived benefit.

I don't see that happening at my school. If it were a bull market for law schools I could say it was at least a possibility, then the real issue would be should I gamble with that possibility for the benefit of having much lower debt. I have checked the websites of a great number of local (and larger - meaning 50+ attorneys) and the vast majority of attorneys come from the big Florida schools (and I include Stetson in that list). The small few that come from my school are often previous employees (paralegals or legal secretaries) of the firm. As far as OCI goes, they're almost non-existent compared to the big FL schools.

On a general note I'm still not entirely convinced one way or the other, but from the sound of it I'm gambling with staying unless the market magically takes a turn.

UFlaw99
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby UFlaw99 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:56 pm

Transfer out ASAP because the ease of getting a job outweighs any lower debt with no job. Duh!

Roberrrrto
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby Roberrrrto » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:46 pm

Run like the wind! I imagine you're at Florida Coastal (based on driving to UF is not bad, but driving to Stetson or Miami is). I can't tell you how poor of a reputation that school has. I'm sure you already know. Regardless of your rank, the first thing employers will look for is where did you go to school. If an employer doesn't come to that school's OCI, that should be a clear sign. Hopefully, you've already decided to do this.

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FuturePanhandler
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby FuturePanhandler » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:17 pm

runinthefront wrote:If you're at Nova/FIU, I would negotiate for a full-ride and stay put. You're just going to have to hustle. My good friend graduated at the top of his class (and I mean the top) a few years ago from one of the "better" Florida TTTs and he legitimately struck out. I can't make this up.


How wide of a net did he cast?

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runinthefront
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby runinthefront » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:36 pm

FuturePanhandler wrote:
runinthefront wrote:If you're at Nova/FIU, I would negotiate for a full-ride and stay put. You're just going to have to hustle. My good friend graduated at the top of his class (and I mean the top) a few years ago from one of the "better" Florida TTTs and he legitimately struck out. I can't make this up.


How wide of a net did he cast?

Wide. EIC of law review, not weird/aspie/arrogant, and no C&F issues. So it goes.

He didn't attend UF/FSU though, so you don't have to worry.

Ken Kesey
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby Ken Kesey » Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:12 pm

Nebby wrote:Transfer.

Have you ever advised someone not to transfer?

hartfordhockaloogies
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby hartfordhockaloogies » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:40 pm

runinthefront wrote:
TheNextAmendment wrote:Please don't transfer. A 3.9 on a 2.0 curve is easily top 1-5% of your class. IMO- you should only transfer if you were trying to get into a top school with national reach to open more doors in your future. However, you want to stay in FL forever, have a family, are on a 75% scholarship, and have a 3.9 gpa. All of these things strongly cut against a transfer. However, you are in a great position to negotiate more scholarship money from your current school. Put in transfer applications to UF and even some T14 schools and then go to the Dean and request a full scholarship. You are a strong asset to your T4's job placement for your graduating year. Assuming there are no other issues, I think you have a 90%+ shot of getting a full scholarship and possibly even a stipend. GL and congrats.


OP, assuming you're at Barry/St. Thomas/Ave Maria/FAMU/Florida Coastal/Cooley, you need to transfer and never look back.

If you're content with staying in Florida, you should apply to both FSU/UF + T14 and go to whichever one is the cheapest.

Don't stay at any of those schools, even if you're #1 in your class on a full-ride.

I don't think TheNextAmendment is aware of how bad some of these Florida schools are. They're not your typical TTT.


If you're at Nova/FIU, I would negotiate for a full-ride and stay put. You're just going to have to hustle. My good friend graduated at the top of his class (and I mean the top) a few years ago from one of the "better" Florida TTTs and he legitimately struck out. I can't make this up.


I agree with him. If you're at Barry/Thomas/AM/FAMU/FC/Cooley, then transfer no matter what. I think you have a good chance at getting into UF as top 1%, and about a 90% chance of getting into FSU.

On the other hand, if you're at FIU or Nova, I would attempt to negotiate a 100% scholarship + stipend if possible. If they do not budge, then you seriously need to consider whether losing your connections, your rank and GPA, law review and/or moot court, and your friends, is worth the difference in name on the degree. However, keep in mind that there have been #1's from Nova that are still jobless.

Best,

hartfordhockaloogies
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby hartfordhockaloogies » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:51 pm

BarristerBull wrote:
runinthefront wrote:OP, assuming you're at Barry/St. Thomas/Ave Maria/FAMU/Florida Coastal/Cooley, you need to transfer and never look back.

I'm at one of these schools.

TheNextAmendment:
Thanks and realistically the only issue I have with the school is the name on the building. It's unfortunate but undeniable. I'm not the least bit unhappy with the quality of education. Immediate, post-JD job prospects and future marketability are my main concerns.

CanadianWolf:
I have no interest in a judicial clerkship. I spent 10 years in a public service career so I really have no interest in going back unless it's absolutely necessary to gain practical experience (that I couldn't get at a firm). I'm mainly interested in a job at a medium to large law firm or a smaller firm with large growth prospects. I don't really have a particular practice area in mind just yet. My family would stay put while I went to class during the week and drove home on the weekends. No real negotiating there...it's UF or bust.

Thanks to everyone for the advice thus far.


Barrister, please apply to GULC at least. You may get need based aid

Traynor Brah
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Re: Transfer From T4 to UF - Worth it in the long run?

Postby Traynor Brah » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:03 pm

baal hadad wrote:If you're from one of those schools you need to get the hell out




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