What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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Anonymous User
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What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:41 pm

At Davis/Hastings. I did not do as hot as I hoped. Ended up right outside the top 25%. According to LST, biglaw is a pipe dream for people outside the top 10-15%.

I came with the intention of becoming a public defender/DDA but once I was in law school, I realized how badly I really wanted to do biglaw. I had dreams of transferring to a school that would give me a realistic shot. I did my best, and now face the harsh reality that I'm not that special after all. I guess I really fucked that one up, huh?

I don't know what to do. I was intent on transferring and now I'm not even sure I'll get into anywhere worth it. Honestly, I'm pretty depressed right now. My grades started off strong and then I got fucked. I was so upset that I did not even go to class this morning. Can't even focus on reading or applying to jobs. Thinking about dropping out but not sure what else I would do.

Wanted to transfer to a T-14, but that's not happening. Would I be able to transfer to UCLA/USC? Even then, would that even be worth it (on a full ride right now, will be graduating with 0 debt)?

Before anyone starts talking about having one semester of grades left, I really think I did my best last semester, and that obviously failed me.

zosluu
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby zosluu » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:24 am

Relax brotha and take a deep breath. Work hard this semester and you can get yourself into a T14. Don't be discouraged.

mvp99
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby mvp99 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:At Davis/Hastings. I did not do as hot as I hoped. Ended up right outside the top 25%. According to LST, biglaw is a pipe dream for people outside the top 10-15%.

I came with the intention of becoming a public defender/DDA but once I was in law school, I realized how badly I really wanted to do biglaw. I had dreams of transferring to a school that would give me a realistic shot. I did my best, and now face the harsh reality that I'm not that special after all. I guess I really fucked that one up, huh?

I don't know what to do. I was intent on transferring and now I'm not even sure I'll get into anywhere worth it. Honestly, I'm pretty depressed right now. My grades started off strong and then I got fucked. I was so upset that I did not even go to class this morning. Can't even focus on reading or applying to jobs. Thinking about dropping out but not sure what else I would do.

Wanted to transfer to a T-14, but that's not happening. Would I be able to transfer to UCLA/USC? Even then, would that even be worth it (on a full ride right now, will be graduating with 0 debt)?

Before anyone starts talking about having one semester of grades left, I really think I did my best last semester, and that obviously failed me.


There are some other recent thread asking the same question. Go read them and if you still have questions come back. Also it's not the end of the world. 0 debt -> you're in a pretty sweet spot even if you drop out

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Nebby
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby Nebby » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:13 am

I want to hug you. Everything will be okay. Stay focused and try to do your best.

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AT9
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby AT9 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:36 am

Why did you want to be a public defender and what made you want biglaw now? Is it possible that you've been seduced by the appeal of biglaw prestige and high salaries over what you really want to do? Being top 1/3 at UC Davis in an improving (albeit still over saturated) economy with 0 debt sounds like an objectively decent situation to be in. Do some soul-searching and see if biglaw is what you really want, or if the initial desire you had coming in is still there. I'm doing some of that soul-searching myself right now.

If you're really set on biglaw, some improvement might get you that chance from Davis or might get you a chance to transfer to a T14. I'm a fellow 1L so take this FWIW, but I would absolutely not transfer to UCLA/USC in your shoes unless you could still graduate with low debt. Only Berkeley and the T14 would be potentially worth the debt, IMO.

Good luck and keep your head up!

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BankruptMe
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby BankruptMe » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:26 am

Id stick it out.

0 Debt means the only thing you are losing is time.

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BVest
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby BVest » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:53 am

BankruptMe wrote:0 Debt means the only thing you are losing is time.


This fallacy comes up way too often on TLS. 0 debt ≠ $0. OP is on a full ride, but there are still expenses to being in law school. The fact that they can pay cash instead of credit does not change that the expenses exist.

OP, I don't think you should transfer. You're in a good position with your scholarship and you're not going to improve your situation dramatically enough to make up for the $100k in additional expenses.

As for whether you should drop out, you're not in a position that cries "dear God, you're blithering idiot, drop out now!" As a result, the question as to whether you should drop out comes down to whether or not you want to be a lawyer (even if that means something other than biglaw).

bl1nds1ght
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby bl1nds1ght » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:06 pm

Regardless of which school Hastings/Davis, if I were in your position with top 25% and a huge scholarship, I'd be sticking it out and networking my ass off to hustle my way into a desirable position, whether that's your BL goal or not.

Not even kidding, but cold email some partners who are alumns and ask to speak with them either on the phone or in person. Express interest in their practice areas and firm, but spin it in a way where you're just looking to learn. The first two or so interactions you'll have with these people are not about getting a job, that will come later after you build rapport over the course of time.

I'm not at all saying that this is a guaranteed way to succeed, but the worst they can tell you when you email is "no." It's worth a shot.

Anonymous User
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:37 pm

AT9 wrote:Why did you want to be a public defender and what made you want biglaw now? Is it possible that you've been seduced by the appeal of biglaw prestige and high salaries over what you really want to do? Being top 1/3 at UC Davis in an improving (albeit still over saturated) economy with 0 debt sounds like an objectively decent situation to be in. Do some soul-searching and see if biglaw is what you really want, or if the initial desire you had coming in is still there. I'm doing some of that soul-searching myself right now.

If you're really set on biglaw, some improvement might get you that chance from Davis or might get you a chance to transfer to a T14. I'm a fellow 1L so take this FWIW, but I would absolutely not transfer to UCLA/USC in your shoes unless you could still graduate with low debt. Only Berkeley and the T14 would be potentially worth the debt, IMO.

Good luck and keep your head up!

OP here. Actually, you're spot on. The idea of hustling throughout 3 years, passing the bar, and then waiting for the chance of getting hired kind of scared me. I actually don't really want to do biglaw, but the thought of having an offer secured before 3L year was really appealing. I'm actually okay with small firm work as well, so as long as it is in CA. It's just...you know...the uncertainty that comes with being hired or not for 3 years.

Thanks for replying everyone. I feel much better now and I think I kind of overreacted. I should be figuring out what I did wrong and be studying hard instead of feeling sorry for myself.

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mandimeoutof10
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby mandimeoutof10 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:44 pm

Step 1: Breathe/step away from the ledge
Step 2: Continue studying hard
Step 3: Profit?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:34 pm

Upwards of 10% of your class will transfer out, and most of those people will be ranked higher than you. Try to have another strong semester and you'll at least have a shot at biglaw.

bnghle234
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby bnghle234 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:16 pm

I was in the same place as you first semester. Ended up pulling a 4.0 second semester to bring me into the top 10%, transferred to T14. You can do it. Will you do it? I can't answer that, just saying it's possible.

If you get less than a 4.0 next semester, but still bring up your grades to around top 15-20%, you're looking at a solid shot at transferring to USC/UCLA. However, I don't think that will help Big law prospects.

Last note, Big Law is not just some automatic thing you get if you're in the top 15%. You still need to hustle for it and do very well in interviews. Don't worry about that stuff now though, just focus on those grades.

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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby JohannDeMann » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:17 pm

BVest wrote:
BankruptMe wrote:0 Debt means the only thing you are losing is time.


This fallacy comes up way too often on TLS. 0 debt ≠ $0. OP is on a full ride, but there are still expenses to being in law school. The fact that they can pay cash instead of credit does not change that the expenses exist.

OP, I don't think you should transfer. You're in a good position with your scholarship and you're not going to improve your situation dramatically enough to make up for the $100k in additional expenses.

As for whether you should drop out, you're not in a position that cries "dear God, you're blithering idiot, drop out now!" As a result, the question as to whether you should drop out comes down to whether or not you want to be a lawyer (even if that means something other than biglaw).


Actually you shouldnt consider living costs, because no matter what you are paying to live. Whether in law school or out. A full scholarship JD free JD is a risk-free JD (aside from opportunity cost) and living expenses should not be calculated in the risk-reward analysis.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:42 pm

You should consider the interest you'll pay on money borrowed for living expenses as well as the amount you could save if you drop out and work. But for one semester these numbers should be pretty negligible.

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BVest
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby BVest » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:49 pm

Yes, you still have to pay living expenses, but if you're not in law school, you can be working full-time to pay those expenses out of income rather than depleting your savings.

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rpupkin
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I came with the intention of becoming a public defender/DDA but once I was in law school, I realized how badly I really wanted to do biglaw. I had dreams of transferring to a school that would give me a realistic shot. I did my best, and now face the harsh reality that I'm not that special after all. I guess I really fucked that one up, huh?

Jesus Christ. Stop being such a whiny bitch. You got good grades first semester. You need somewhat better grades second semester to give yourself a shot at a paying 2L SA gig. Study hard again and hope that the law school exam gods are kinder to you in the Spring.

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chuckbass
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby chuckbass » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:07 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I came with the intention of becoming a public defender/DDA but once I was in law school, I realized how badly I really wanted to do biglaw. I had dreams of transferring to a school that would give me a realistic shot. I did my best, and now face the harsh reality that I'm not that special after all. I guess I really fucked that one up, huh?

Jesus Christ. Stop being such a whiny bitch. You got good grades first semester. You need somewhat better grades second semester to give yourself a shot at a paying 2L SA gig. Study hard again and hope that the law school exam gods are kinder to you in the Spring.

Totally unnecessary dude.

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rpupkin
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:12 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:
rpupkin wrote:Jesus Christ. Stop being such a whiny bitch. You got good grades first semester. You need somewhat better grades second semester to give yourself a shot at a paying 2L SA gig. Study hard again and hope that the law school exam gods are kinder to you in the Spring.

Totally unnecessary dude.

Disagree. There are literally thousands of law students in tragic circumstances right now. If you're top 25% at Hastings/Davis with a full ride, after one semester, you're not one of those students. Sometimes the best advice is to just study. The OP is spending way too much time wallowing in self-pity and needs a kick in the ass.

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romothesavior
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:14 pm

You did better than 75% of your classmates. In fact, you did significantly better than you should have expected to perform. (You should have matriculated with the expectation of being around median.) Not only that, but you have a semester to go to improve your grades even more.

With a full ride and your grades, you should absolutely not transfer. Big law will be an uphill battle, but you should have known that when you decided to go to Davis. Stick it out, work on your grades, and aim for the best gig you can. Really no point in feeling sorry for yourself, because again, this outcome is better than you should have planned for.

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romothesavior
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:25 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I came with the intention of becoming a public defender/DDA but once I was in law school, I realized how badly I really wanted to do biglaw. I had dreams of transferring to a school that would give me a realistic shot. I did my best, and now face the harsh reality that I'm not that special after all. I guess I really fucked that one up, huh?

Jesus Christ. Stop being such a whiny bitch. You got good grades first semester. You need somewhat better grades second semester to give yourself a shot at a paying 2L SA gig. Study hard again and hope that the law school exam gods are kinder to you in the Spring.

Totally unnecessary dude.

Eh, frankly OP could use some perspective here. This woe is me attitude is ridiculous.

He went to a school where models and bottles was never a realistic outcome. He performed better than 75% of his classmates. Apparently that's a disappointment because he irrationally expected to smoke all his classmates first semester?

He's in an okay spot moving forward. He should have gone to a better school if he wanted the opportunity of big law. And honestly, he's probably competitive for respectable mid and small law types of firms if he's not a social dunce and knows how to network and interview. And again, he has another semester to get his grades up. All this bitching is unwarranted.

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DildaMan
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby DildaMan » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At Davis/Hastings. I did not do as hot as I hoped. Ended up right outside the top 25%. According to LST, biglaw is a pipe dream for people outside the top 10-15%.

I came with the intention of becoming a public defender/DDA but once I was in law school, I realized how badly I really wanted to do biglaw. I had dreams of transferring to a school that would give me a realistic shot. I did my best, and now face the harsh reality that I'm not that special after all. I guess I really fucked that one up, huh?

I don't know what to do. I was intent on transferring and now I'm not even sure I'll get into anywhere worth it. Honestly, I'm pretty depressed right now. My grades started off strong and then I got fucked. I was so upset that I did not even go to class this morning. Can't even focus on reading or applying to jobs. Thinking about dropping out but not sure what else I would do.

Wanted to transfer to a T-14, but that's not happening. Would I be able to transfer to UCLA/USC? Even then, would that even be worth it (on a full ride right now, will be graduating with 0 debt)?

Before anyone starts talking about having one semester of grades left, I really think I did my best last semester, and that obviously failed me.


I was in the same situation. PM me.

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northwood
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby northwood » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:46 pm

If you end up transferring you will give up your scholarship to pay full tuition price for 2 years. And big law is not a given, either. So there is a very real possibility that you can end up without biglaw, but with 2 years worth of full tuition-price student loans that must be repaid. Something to think about.

Personally, assuming you finish 1L in the same spot as now, I would stay. If you miss biglaw, your debt situation leaves you with more flexibility than if you were to leave and pay full price for 2 years.

Longtimecoming19
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby Longtimecoming19 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:25 pm

romothesavior wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I came with the intention of becoming a public defender/DDA but once I was in law school, I realized how badly I really wanted to do biglaw. I had dreams of transferring to a school that would give me a realistic shot. I did my best, and now face the harsh reality that I'm not that special after all. I guess I really fucked that one up, huh?

Jesus Christ. Stop being such a whiny bitch. You got good grades first semester. You need somewhat better grades second semester to give yourself a shot at a paying 2L SA gig. Study hard again and hope that the law school exam gods are kinder to you in the Spring.

Totally unnecessary dude.

Eh, frankly OP could use some perspective here. This woe is me attitude is ridiculous.

He went to a school where models and bottles was never a realistic outcome. He performed better than 75% of his classmates. Apparently that's a disappointment because he irrationally expected to smoke all his classmates first semester?

He's in an okay spot moving forward. He should have gone to a better school if he wanted the opportunity of big law. And honestly, he's probably competitive for respectable mid and small law types of firms if he's not a social dunce and knows how to network and interview. And again, he has another semester to get his grades up. All this bitching is unwarranted.


So just to be clear, if OP wanted a better life for himself he should have gone to a better school, but if OP actually, you know, tries to get into a better school, OP is a bitch. Sure, got it, the bitch in this situation is definitely OP.

table3
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Re: What Should I Do? Transfer? Drop out?

Postby table3 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:According to LST, biglaw is a pipe dream for people outside the top 10-15%.


You sure about that? I know what LST says, but what do the 2Ls, 3Ls, and your career office say? Ask what the ranking cutoff usually is for getting an OCI pref. Then ask if, once the interviews are scheduled, candidates are on a (roughly) equal playing field, GPA notwithstanding.




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