American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

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BVest
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American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby BVest » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:10 pm

Thought this was interesting. It will also be interesting to see what happen's with American's numbers. Their employment outcomes have been downright atrocious. If GW's poaching leads to a significantly smaller class size, that could result in somewhat better numbers. Alternately, employers might feel like the entire top 20-25% of AU's 1L class is gone, so why bother.

From the Tax Prof Blog:

Facebook post by Anthony E. Varona (Prof and Associate Dean for Faculty and Academic Affairs at American):

I am glad that some in the media -- even if just the legal blogosphere -- are finally paying attention to what GW Law has been doing with transfers. The school shrank its 1L class some years ago, deciding instead to transfer in large numbers of students after the first year. 97 transfers just last year alone. Well over HALF of those from my law school; which -- to say the least -- causes us quite a bit of disruption. Speaking only for myself and not in my official law school capacity, I view this practice as downright predatory. No other law school is similarly raided anywhere else in the United States. No other law school engages in this sort of practice to this degree. More troubling still for GW Law students especially is the "bait and switch" nature of this backdoor transfer trick. The "student quality" numbers (collegiate GPA and LSAT) GW submits to the accrediting and, ultimately, the ranking authorities -- like US News -- are solely those of their artificially small 1L class. GW is not required to disclose the true, overall student quality numbers -- so, it doesn't. With nearly 100 (!!) new classmates at the start of their second years, are GW students attending the same "quality" of school (myopically defined by GPA and LSAT) as advertised in the rankings? Um, don't think so. I wrote about this problem in [Diversity and Disgrace – How the U.S. News Law School Rankings Hurt Everyone, N.Y.U. Rev. L. & Soc. Change Blog (Apr. 3, 2014).] GW Law is an excellent and honorable law school. This practice is far beneath its illustrious history and reputation. Thank goodness it has an outstanding, and ethical, new dean in Blake Morant.


The GW Student Newspaper article quoted in Paul Caron's blog is also interesting and has some good quotes by Prof. Campos.

H/T: ABA Journal

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FSK
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby FSK » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:27 pm

We broke the numbers down in another thread here based on the 509 data. GW was accepting kids from American who had median grades. What a joke.

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fats provolone
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby fats provolone » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:29 pm

someone's gotta subsidize those scholarships

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FSK
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby FSK » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:33 pm

fats provolone wrote:someone's gotta subsidize those scholarships


I mean, I'm one of those subsidized people. But its still terrible to see for so many reasons.

Edit: My opinion is that American should just shut down - with about 3 other law schools from the DMV area.
Last edited by FSK on Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kcdc1
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby kcdc1 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:37 pm

American's argument:

(1) All of our students want to transfer out, and (2) the top half of are students are able to do so because GW will accept them. Thus, we lose our best students, and GW is to blame. Kindly ignore the fact that our students don't want to be here.

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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:45 pm

Wow, how shitty is American's placement that this number of students are transferring to GW?

I looked out of curiosity and GW has more than double the big firm placement and nearly double the % of employed 9 months out, which is really surprising to me
Last edited by Hutz_and_Goodman on Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fats provolone
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby fats provolone » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:46 pm

i wonder if they do any better at gw

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FSK
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby FSK » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:50 pm

fats provolone wrote:i wonder if they do any better at gw


My observation from OCI is no. Most I've met got 0 screening interviews.

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lhanvt13
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby lhanvt13 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:09 pm

LOL @ American SJWing about predatory admissions practices

TheNextAmendment
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby TheNextAmendment » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:45 pm

Shame on American for complaining about kids leaving for "better chances" of actually repaying their loans.

Shame on GW for being GW.

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TheodoreKGB
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby TheodoreKGB » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:00 pm

.
Last edited by TheodoreKGB on Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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chuckbass
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby chuckbass » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:24 pm

Also lol at admitting that his own students aren't of good quality

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mephistopheles
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby mephistopheles » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:00 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:Also lol at admitting that his own students aren't of good quality


yeah this is great

though if they're at american, they just may miss it

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TatteredDignity
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby TatteredDignity » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:19 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:Also lol at admitting that his own students aren't of good quality


But even that he tries to have both ways, because quality is "myopically defined by GPA and LSAT."

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runinthefront
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby runinthefront » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:27 pm

TheNextAmendment wrote:Shame on American for complaining about kids leaving for "better chances" of actually repaying their loans.

Shame on GW for being GW.

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butlerraider1
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby butlerraider1 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:59 pm

Is it possible that one of the reasons why Americans employment score is so atrocious is because most of the top students leave? Could be totally off base. Just a thought

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prezidentv8
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:14 pm

butlerraider1 wrote:Is it possible that one of the reasons why Americans employment score is so atrocious is because most of the top students leave? Could be totally off base. Just a thought


I knew American was bad, but I didn't know quite how bad. Just looked. Holy crap.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/american/jobs/employers/2013/

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rondemarino
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby rondemarino » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:26 pm

Another reason so many AU grads leave the Factory of Sadness is that the Factory doesn't offer much by way of scholarships. So there's very little money anchoring AU students to the Factory of Sadness.

The prof needs to quit his bitching, take a 50% salary cut and let the Factory use the savings to retain their top 1Ls with scholarship money. But something tells me that is not happening.

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haus
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby haus » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:32 pm

flawschoolkid wrote:3 other law schools from the DMV area.

Please do not refer to this area as DMV, I already have enough mental scar tissue to deal with without dredging up horrific department of motor vehical memories as well.

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chuckbass
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby chuckbass » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:44 pm

haus wrote:
flawschoolkid wrote:3 other law schools from the DMV area.

Please do not refer to this area as DMV, I already have enough mental scar tissue to deal with without dredging up horrific department of motor vehical memories as well.

DMV is a normal name for the area doe

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haus
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby haus » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:50 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:
haus wrote:
flawschoolkid wrote:3 other law schools from the DMV area.

Please do not refer to this area as DMV, I already have enough mental scar tissue to deal with without dredging up horrific department of motor vehical memories as well.

DMV is a normal name for the area doe

I have working here since '97, I do not think I have heard this usage.

qlinault
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby qlinault » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:52 pm

district maryland virginia

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chuckbass
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby chuckbass » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:55 pm

haus wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:
haus wrote:
flawschoolkid wrote:3 other law schools from the DMV area.

Please do not refer to this area as DMV, I already have enough mental scar tissue to deal with without dredging up horrific department of motor vehical memories as well.

DMV is a normal name for the area doe

I have working here since '97, I do not think I have heard this usage.

Um, watch the news sometime? If we're whipping it out and measuring up, I was born there in '92.

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haus
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby haus » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:56 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:Um, watch the news sometime? If we're whipping it out and measuring up, I was born there in '92.

Local TV news has just slightly more useful content than a test pattern.

hypebeast
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Re: American prof slams GW for "predatory" transfer practices

Postby hypebeast » Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:33 pm

haus wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:Um, watch the news sometime? If we're whipping it out and measuring up, I was born there in '92.

Local TV news has just slightly more useful content than a test pattern.


I was born here in the '80s and have lived in the area my entire life. I remember hearing the term "DMV" as far back as middle school. It has become a lot more popular lately, though, mostly because Wale uses it in his songs and radio stations use the term a lot now. Anyways, the term DMV has been around for a while and has become very common since the mid-2000s.




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