LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

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DELG

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby DELG » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:03 am

jbagelboy wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
whelmer wrote:transfers do not qualify for honors at lots of schools because they don't take enough credits at the new school to qualify.



I was going to say, not sure many schools will even let you qualify for honors.


Well at northwestern they do qualify for cum laude and magna cum laude, and our year they had a really shitty showing. Median jumps from 3.4 to 3.65 after 3L, which suggests a median of 3.775 for 2-3L. And still they many transfers failed to get to 3.65.


I mean, again this is true but i think it misses the broader point. So few people continue trying after OCI that it's basically a joke to measure the comparative competition. The test at a T14 is your 1L class rank, not your 3L A+ rancid seminar stacking. The statement "transfers do well at their new T14" isn't primarily flawed because it's statistically wrong, it's flawed because it's meaningless to "do well" when no one reads or goes to class except the SCOTUS clerk gunners.

But then it's statistically wrong on top of that.

Not that I blame transfers (or anyone else) for phoning it in 2L-3L.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby Nebby » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:06 am

Sparse OCI data on transfers in compiled TLS threads (Legal Employment forum) indicates that that most transfers (that filled out the form) do get BigLaw jobs. Also, anecdotal evidence from TLS indicates that some transfers strike out at OCI because they bid very poorly. Ie. Bidding Covington or Cravath. And they don't massmail. (WHY? I don't know)

My T2 1L school placed 0% in BigLaw.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby Ruxin1 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:53 am

CounselorNebby wrote:Sparse OCI data on transfers in compiled TLS threads (Legal Employment forum) indicates that that most transfers (that filled out the form) do get BigLaw jobs. Also, anecdotal evidence from TLS indicates that some transfers strike out at OCI because they bid very poorly. Ie. Bidding Covington or Cravath. And they don't massmail. (WHY? I don't know)

My T2 1L school placed 0% in BigLaw.


I think this refines DF's point obviously it makes sense for you to transfer but if you are at a state flagship say UGA UNC Bama where top of the class gets great jobs in the home state.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby brazleton » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:04 am

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Last edited by brazleton on Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby Nebby » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:18 am

Credited Advice:

If you're in a T2/T3/T4, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement < 10%, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement < 10%, and on decent scholarship, then don't transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement > 10%, but doesn't place in your target market, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement > 10%, places in target market, then don't transfer.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby brazleton » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:33 am

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:37 am

CounselorNebby wrote:Sparse OCI data on transfers in compiled TLS threads (Legal Employment forum) indicates that that most transfers (that filled out the form) do get BigLaw jobs. Also, anecdotal evidence from TLS indicates that some transfers strike out at OCI because they bid very poorly. Ie. Bidding Covington or Cravath. And they don't massmail. (WHY? I don't know)

My T2 1L school placed 0% in BigLaw.


you cannot go by those threads because the sample is pure self selection. I know several transfers who struck out after coming from schools that placed 10-15% in biglaw.

Going from TTT to T14 probably isn't a bad choice because you have a low shot anyway. But the vast majority of transfers would have gotten biglaw anyway.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:39 am

brazleton wrote:
Ruxin1 wrote:
I think this refines DF's point obviously it makes sense for you to transfer but if you are at a state flagship say UGA UNC Bama where top of the class gets great jobs in the home state.


By "refines" his point, you appear to mean "DF's sweet hypothesis is wrong in most cases but we can find the nugget of truth." Stop enabling.


Most cases my ass. The vast majority of transfers are one step up the chain, not TTT to T14.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby FSK » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:42 am

If you're in a T2/T3/T4, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement < 10%, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement < 10%, and on decent scholarship, then don't transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement > 10%, but doesn't place in your target market, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement > 10%, places in target market, then don't transfer.


This is probably correct.
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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:44 am

CounselorNebby wrote:Credited Advice:

If you're in a T2/T3/T4, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement < 10%, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement < 10%, and on decent scholarship, then don't transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement > 10%, but doesn't place in your target market, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement > 10%, places in target market, then don't transfer.


I'd say, roughly, transfer if you are outside of the rank where you are likely to get biglaw at your original school, if you have a scholarship. If you don't, only transfer if you want to switch markets or you have a somewhat high chance of striking out at your old school.

If you are top 1% at school that places 9%, you are usually golden already. If you are top 15% at a school that places 9% that's iffy.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby Nebby » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:30 am

CounselorNebby wrote:Credited Advice:

If you're in a T2/T3/T4, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement < 10%, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement < 10%, and on decent scholarship, then don't transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement > 10%, but doesn't place in your target market, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement > 10%, places in target market, then don't transfer.


I should have included that this advice assumes the candidate has a reasonable chance of transferring into the T14. Ie. Top 10% at their 1L or better.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:52 am

Desert Fox wrote:
CounselorNebby wrote:Credited Advice:

If you're in a T2/T3/T4, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement < 10%, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement < 10%, and on decent scholarship, then don't transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement > 10%, but doesn't place in your target market, then transfer to T14.
If you're in a T1 that has a BigLaw placement > 10%, places in target market, then don't transfer.


I'd say, roughly, transfer if you are outside of the rank where you are likely to get biglaw at your original school, if you have a scholarship. If you don't, only transfer if you want to switch markets or you have a somewhat high chance of striking out at your old school.

If you are top 1% at school that places 9%, you are usually golden already. If you are top 15% at a school that places 9% that's iffy.


Agreed.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby eastcoast_iub » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:47 pm

DELG wrote:So your basis for your claim is what people tell you. When you intrusively ask them about their grades. Or when you wait for people who did well to volunteer. Okie doke.

Even tho transfers don't have to take a single curved class 2L and 3L, they didn't seem to do all that well at getting honors at my school. Which, they should have cleaned up, for that reason.


Your anecdotal evidence is clearly more persuasive than mine. I don't know anyone who didn't take a single curved class - most transfers I know took plenty. There's no choice to start with, since 2L fall semester most of the non-curved classes are taken by the time you do late registration. Plus not having to take curved classes can be a disadvantage as much of an advantage - we all lost the high grades that we worked our asses off to get 1L and started from scratch.

Generally I think many non-transfers are disdainful of transfers for taking their jobs, plus there is a lot of self-congratulation for getting a few points higher on the LSAT. So there is always the element that will try to downplay their achievements. But transfers all earned their way in, belong there as much as anyone else, and I think statistically their performance would demonstrate it. But it's unprovable.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby DELG » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:50 pm

eastcoast_iub wrote:
DELG wrote:So your basis for your claim is what people tell you. When you intrusively ask them about their grades. Or when you wait for people who did well to volunteer. Okie doke.

Even tho transfers don't have to take a single curved class 2L and 3L, they didn't seem to do all that well at getting honors at my school. Which, they should have cleaned up, for that reason.


Your anecdotal evidence is clearly more persuasive than mine. I don't know anyone who didn't take a single curved class - most transfers I know took plenty. There's no choice to start with, since 2L fall semester most of the non-curved classes are taken by the time you do late registration. Plus not having to take curved classes can be a disadvantage as much of an advantage - we all lost the high grades that we worked our asses off to get 1L and started from scratch.

Generally I think many non-transfers are disdainful of transfers for taking their jobs, plus there is a lot of self-congratulation for getting a few points higher on the LSAT. So there is always the element that will try to downplay their achievements. But transfers all earned their way in, belong there as much as anyone else, and I think statistically their performance would demonstrate it. But it's unprovable.

I think DF actually did prove it

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby whelmer » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:53 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
whelmer wrote:That is a much better way to frame the argument than simply making a blanket statement that all transfer students are "retarded." The attitude of the latter argument did very well merit a "fuck you."

The decision to transfer or not definitely carries a trade-off, as does the decision of whether to attend a T14 at sticker or a lower-tier school with $$. In the end, students have to decide for themselves which is best for their situations. My position is that transferring is not necessarily a dumb decision in all cases.


I didn't call transfers retards, just on topic posters like yourself.



The decision to transfer or not definitely carries a trade-off, as does the decision of whether to attend a T14 at sticker or a lower-tier school with $$. In the end, students have to decide for themselves which is best for their situations. My position is that transferring is not necessarily a dumb decision in all cases.


Yes there are trade offs. But doing both is fucking retarded because you made two trade offs instead of one.


You did say transfers were retarded, and you just did again. Do you forget what you type right after you type it?

I'm still astounded at the animosity toward other people's personal decisions. The two tradeoffs in this case don't necessarily cancel each other out. You complete one year of law school for far less money than you would have had you gone straight to T14 and then complete your law degree at a far more prestigious university which will improve your immediate career outlook (as you noted) and confer much better opportunities throughout your career. This isn't an exact reversal of a previous decision. Maybe under your new circumstances you decide that the better school is now worth it, since you will owe tens of thousands of dollars less than you would have had you gone there in the first place, but you still get the degree! Many advantages to transferring if you have the opportunity.

Fuck you, retard.
Last edited by whelmer on Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby NYSprague » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:53 pm

DELG wrote:
eastcoast_iub wrote:
DELG wrote:So your basis for your claim is what people tell you. When you intrusively ask them about their grades. Or when you wait for people who did well to volunteer. Okie doke.

Even tho transfers don't have to take a single curved class 2L and 3L, they didn't seem to do all that well at getting honors at my school. Which, they should have cleaned up, for that reason.


Your anecdotal evidence is clearly more persuasive than mine. I don't know anyone who didn't take a single curved class - most transfers I know took plenty. There's no choice to start with, since 2L fall semester most of the non-curved classes are taken by the time you do late registration. Plus not having to take curved classes can be a disadvantage as much of an advantage - we all lost the high grades that we worked our asses off to get 1L and started from scratch.

Generally I think many non-transfers are disdainful of transfers for taking their jobs, plus there is a lot of self-congratulation for getting a few points higher on the LSAT. So there is always the element that will try to downplay their achievements. But transfers all earned their way in, belong there as much as anyone else, and I think statistically their performance would demonstrate it. But it's unprovable.

I think DF actually did prove it



Do transfers work harder than other 2Ls, or do they slack once they have an offer?

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby Holly Golightly » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:57 pm

NYSprague wrote:Do transfers work harder than other 2Ls, or do they slack once they have an offer?

I saw both. More gunners than slackers. And a fair number of people who weren't annoying in class and I didn't really know personally, so I have no idea.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby whelmer » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:58 pm

DELG wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Well at northwestern they do qualify for cum laude and magna cum laude, and our year they had a really shitty showing. Median jumps from 3.4 to 3.65 after 3L, which suggests a median of 3.775 for 2-3L. And still they many transfers failed to get to 3.65.


I mean, again this is true but i think it misses the broader point. So few people continue trying after OCI that it's basically a joke to measure the comparative competition. The test at a T14 is your 1L class rank, not your 3L A+ rancid seminar stacking. The statement "transfers do well at their new T14" isn't primarily flawed because it's statistically wrong, it's flawed because it's meaningless to "do well" when no one reads or goes to class except the SCOTUS clerk gunners.

But then it's statistically wrong on top of that.

Not that I blame transfers (or anyone else) for phoning it in 2L-3L.


You're all conflating 'doing well' with 'getting top grades'

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby eastcoast_iub » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:58 pm

DELG wrote:
eastcoast_iub wrote:
DELG wrote:So your basis for your claim is what people tell you. When you intrusively ask them about their grades. Or when you wait for people who did well to volunteer. Okie doke.

Even tho transfers don't have to take a single curved class 2L and 3L, they didn't seem to do all that well at getting honors at my school. Which, they should have cleaned up, for that reason.


Your anecdotal evidence is clearly more persuasive than mine. I don't know anyone who didn't take a single curved class - most transfers I know took plenty. There's no choice to start with, since 2L fall semester most of the non-curved classes are taken by the time you do late registration. Plus not having to take curved classes can be a disadvantage as much of an advantage - we all lost the high grades that we worked our asses off to get 1L and started from scratch.

Generally I think many non-transfers are disdainful of transfers for taking their jobs, plus there is a lot of self-congratulation for getting a few points higher on the LSAT. So there is always the element that will try to downplay their achievements. But transfers all earned their way in, belong there as much as anyone else, and I think statistically their performance would demonstrate it. But it's unprovable.

I think DF actually did prove it


Right. Because high achievers who have all tried to be the best academically their whole lives all completely flipped the switch and threw in the towel 2L and 3L. This is a ridiculous assertion and was not the case at my school. There were lots of people gunning hard for high honors, clerkships, and because of general pride. Plenty of people slack 2 and 3L, but plenty don't. And who says there isn't lots of variation in 1L effort as well.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby Holly Golightly » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:01 pm

whelmer wrote:You're all conflating 'doing well' with 'getting top grades'

At NU, cum laude is "doing well."

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby DELG » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:02 pm

I dare you to be more nonresponsive as to the issue of proportion of transfers who make honors at NU

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:02 pm

whelmer wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
whelmer wrote:That is a much better way to frame the argument than simply making a blanket statement that all transfer students are "retarded." The attitude of the latter argument did very well merit a "fuck you."

The decision to transfer or not definitely carries a trade-off, as does the decision of whether to attend a T14 at sticker or a lower-tier school with $$. In the end, students have to decide for themselves which is best for their situations. My position is that transferring is not necessarily a dumb decision in all cases.


I didn't call transfers retards, just on topic posters like yourself.



The decision to transfer or not definitely carries a trade-off, as does the decision of whether to attend a T14 at sticker or a lower-tier school with $$. In the end, students have to decide for themselves which is best for their situations. My position is that transferring is not necessarily a dumb decision in all cases.


Yes there are trade offs. But doing both is fucking retarded because you made two trade offs instead of one.


You did say transfers were retarded, and you just did again. Do you forget what you type right after you type it?

I'm still astounded at the animosity toward other people's personal decisions. The two tradeoffs in this case don't necessarily cancel each other out. You complete one year of law school for far less money than you would have had you gone straight to T14 and then complete your law degree at a far more prestigious university which will improve your immediate career outlook (as you noted) and confer much better opportunities throughout your career. This isn't an exact reversal of a previous decision. Maybe under your new circumstances you decide that the better school is now worth it, since you will owe tens of thousands of dollars less than you would have had you gone there in the first place, but you still get the degree! Many advantages to transferring if you have the opportunity.

Fuck you, retard.


Not all, or probably even most, transfers "do[] both."


I'm still astounded at the animosity toward other people's personal decisions. The two tradeoffs in this case don't necessarily cancel each other out. You complete one year of law school for far less money than you would have had you gone straight to T14 and then complete your law degree at a far more prestigious university which will improve your immediate career outlook (as you noted) and confer much better opportunities throughout your career. This isn't an exact reversal of a previous decision. Maybe under your new circumstances you decide that the better school is now worth it, since you will owe tens of thousands of dollars less than you would have had you gone there in the first place, but you still get the degree! Many advantages to transferring if you have the opportunity.


Why would you trade away most of your chance at a good job for "tens of thousands of dollars" but then buy maybe a marginal increase in job prospects for a hundred thousand dollars. You are flipping your degree in the wrong direction.

U sound mad.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:05 pm

eastcoast_iub wrote:
DELG wrote:
eastcoast_iub wrote:
DELG wrote:So your basis for your claim is what people tell you. When you intrusively ask them about their grades. Or when you wait for people who did well to volunteer. Okie doke.

Even tho transfers don't have to take a single curved class 2L and 3L, they didn't seem to do all that well at getting honors at my school. Which, they should have cleaned up, for that reason.


Your anecdotal evidence is clearly more persuasive than mine. I don't know anyone who didn't take a single curved class - most transfers I know took plenty. There's no choice to start with, since 2L fall semester most of the non-curved classes are taken by the time you do late registration. Plus not having to take curved classes can be a disadvantage as much of an advantage - we all lost the high grades that we worked our asses off to get 1L and started from scratch.

Generally I think many non-transfers are disdainful of transfers for taking their jobs, plus there is a lot of self-congratulation for getting a few points higher on the LSAT. So there is always the element that will try to downplay their achievements. But transfers all earned their way in, belong there as much as anyone else, and I think statistically their performance would demonstrate it. But it's unprovable.

I think DF actually did prove it


Right. Because high achievers who have all tried to be the best academically their whole lives all completely flipped the switch and threw in the towel 2L and 3L. This is a ridiculous assertion and was not the case at my school. There were lots of people gunning hard for high honors, clerkships, and because of general pride. Plenty of people slack 2 and 3L, but plenty don't. And who says there isn't lots of variation in 1L effort as well.


My point is many transfer tried hard and failed at doing this.

Median for 2-3L is 3.77, and a lot of them failed to even maintain 3.65.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby whelmer » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:22 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Not all, or probably even most, transfers "do[] both."

Why would you trade away most of your chance at a good job for "tens of thousands of dollars" but then buy maybe a marginal increase in job prospects for a hundred thousand dollars. You are flipping your degree in the wrong direction.

U sound mad.


Not mad. I have no personal connection to this topic. You're just being extremely presumptuous and rude. Presumptuous because you believe all people should have the same reservation value as you for a T14 law degree and rude because in your eyes anyone who doesn't is automatically retarded.

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Re: LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker

Postby whelmer » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:23 pm

Desert Fox wrote:My point is many transfer tried hard and failed at doing this.

Median for 2-3L is 3.77, and a lot of them failed to even maintain 3.65.


How many non-transfers also failed? How many of them paid sticker all three years?

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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