LOL at people who take $$$ then transfer for sticker Forum

[whelmer]

How can you say that low-ranked schools involve an 85% risk of getting a career in shitlaw, then say that transferring leads to only a marginal increase in career prospects?

it's cuz once you have the grades to transfer, you're no longer in the 85% of kids who will likely get shitlaw. At the non-T14's, most of the class have bad prospects and a small percentage at the top usually have great prospects, unless the school is so shitty that no one has good prospects or something.

Going to a lower school initially means you risk being in that 85%. But after you get good grades as a 1L, that risk disappears and now you're part of the small chunk of students who have decent opportunities at OCI. So you're not comparing the prospects of average student at lower school to T14. You're comparing prospects of top student at lower school to T14, and that's the basis of his "only leads to marginal increase" argument.

Then that is an argument against going to a lower-ranked law school with the intention of transferring, not against transferring if you have the opportunity. Indeed, it acknowledges that you have increased career prospects if you *do* transfer.

[DoveBodyWash]

How can you say that low-ranked schools involve an 85% risk of getting a career in shitlaw, then say that transferring leads to only a marginal increase in career prospects?

it's cuz once you have the grades to transfer, you're no longer in the 85% of kids who will likely get shitlaw. At the non-T14's, most of the class have bad prospects and a small percentage at the top usually have great prospects, unless the school is so shitty that no one has good prospects or something.

Going to a lower school initially means you risk being in that 85%. But after you get good grades as a 1L, that risk disappears and now you're part of the small chunk of students who have decent opportunities at OCI. So you're not comparing the prospects of average student at lower school to T14. You're comparing prospects of top student at lower school to T14, and that's the basis of his "only leads to marginal increase" argument.

Then that is an argument against going to a lower-ranked law school with the intention of transferring, not against transferring if you have the opportunity. Indeed, it acknowledges that you have increased career prospects if you *do* transfer.

Yeah most ppl would agree it's dumb to go to lower school with the intention of transferring. I think there's arguments to be made on both sides as to whether forfeiting a large scholarship to transfer is a wise move. I go back and forth on it all the time myself

I think a part of the disconnect is that the T14 students don't really understand how poor the prospects are at the lower schools. I'm in the "could probably get BigLaw" cohort at my school, but i'm fighting for a spot in like 20-30 firms total, many of which are smaller and/or only looking to hire 1-2 kids at most (if any at all) from my school. It's not like Northwestern where K&E comes with the intention of hiring a bunch of them. Statistically my odds are okay, but there's very little room for error since the OCI attendance and number of offers are so low.

That said, I'm sure students at lower schools with big scholarships tend to underestimate the stress/hardship that comes with big debt even when u do get BigLaw.

[whelmer]

How can you say that low-ranked schools involve an 85% risk of getting a career in shitlaw, then say that transferring leads to only a marginal increase in career prospects?

it's cuz once you have the grades to transfer, you're no longer in the 85% of kids who will likely get shitlaw. At the non-T14's, most of the class have bad prospects and a small percentage at the top usually have great prospects, unless the school is so shitty that no one has good prospects or something.

Going to a lower school initially means you risk being in that 85%. But after you get good grades as a 1L, that risk disappears and now you're part of the small chunk of students who have decent opportunities at OCI. So you're not comparing the prospects of average student at lower school to T14. You're comparing prospects of top student at lower school to T14, and that's the basis of his "only leads to marginal increase" argument.

Then that is an argument against going to a lower-ranked law school with the intention of transferring, not against transferring if you have the opportunity.

Yeah most ppl would agree it's dumb to go to lower school with the intention of transferring. I think there's arguments to be made on both sides as to whether forfeiting a large scholarship to transfer is a wise move. I go back and forth on it all the time myself

I think a part of the disconnect is that the T14 students don't really understand how poor the prospects are at the lower schools. I'm in the "could probably get BigLaw" cohort at my school, but i'm fighting for a spot among like...20-30 firms total, many of which are smaller and/or only looking to hire 1-2 kids at most (if any at all) from my school. So yeah i guess statistically my odds are okay, but there's very little room for error since the OCI attendance and number of offers are so low.

That said, I'm sure students at lower schools with big scholarships tend to underestimate the stress/hardship that comes with big debt even when u do get BigLaw.

That is a much better way to frame the argument than simply making a blanket statement that all transfer students are "retarded." The attitude of the latter argument did very well merit a "fuck you."

The decision to transfer or not definitely carries a trade-off, as does the decision of whether to attend a T14 at sticker or a lower-tier school with $$. In the end, students have to decide for themselves which is best for their situations. My position is that transferring is not necessarily a dumb decision in all cases.

[brazleton]

.

[eastcoast_iub]

Totally agreed. OP is smug and uninformed. LOL at someone's logic being stronger b/c they scored a couple points higher on the LSAT. Transfers perform disproportionately well at their new schools.

[DELG]

Transfers perform disproportionately well at their new schools.

Cite??

[jbagelboy]

Transfers perform disproportionately well at their new schools.

Cite??

(Its not true, usually their GPAs go down a little, but its also beside the point because T14 students usually couldnt give less of a fuck about 2L/3L grades and the curves are easier).

[jarofsoup]

Why the hell would someone transfer from GGU to Cal?? I mean couldn't they have gone to Cal in the first place?

[DELG]

Transfers perform disproportionately well at their new schools.

Cite??

(Its not true, usually their GPAs go down a little, but its also beside the point because T14 students usually couldnt give less of a fuck about 2L/3L grades and the curves are easier).

Also it's a lot easier to grade shop 2L/3L so...

[eastcoast_iub]

Transfers perform disproportionately well at their new schools.

Cite??

(Its not true, usually their GPAs go down a little, but its also beside the point because T14 students usually couldnt give less of a fuck about 2L/3L grades and the curves are easier).

Cite?

This is unprovable one way or the other. I haven't conducted a peer-reviewed study. All I can go on is anecdotal evidence. Transfer outperformance makes sense though since, by definition, all transfers have a demonstrated ability to perform well on law school exams.

[DELG]

Transfers perform disproportionately well at their new schools.

Cite??

(Its not true, usually their GPAs go down a little, but its also beside the point because T14 students usually couldnt give less of a fuck about 2L/3L grades and the curves are easier).

Cite?

This is unprovable one way or the other. I haven't conducted a peer-reviewed study. All I can go on is anecdotal evidence. Transfer outperformance makes sense though since, by definition, all transfers have a demonstrated ability to perform well on law school exams.

So your basis for your claim is what people tell you. When you intrusively ask them about their grades. Or when you wait for people who did well to volunteer. Okie doke.

Even tho transfers don't have to take a single curved class 2L and 3L, they didn't seem to do all that well at getting honors at my school. Which, they should have cleaned up, for that reason.

[jarofsoup]

They did get honors at my school....

[whelmer]

transfers do not qualify for honors at lots of schools because they don't take enough credits at the new school to qualify.

it may not be the case that transfers do "disproportionately" well, but they do indeed do well. deans from different t14s have noted the success of transfers at their schools. take dean tom for example (http://www.top-law-schools.com/tom-interview.html):

TLS: But transfers are pretty impressive. One of my friends was first in his class at the University of San Diego Law School, and he did quite well here after transferring into Boalt.

Dean Tom: “Yes, transfer students generally excel at Boalt.”

TLS: They’re such hard workers.

Dean Tom: “Exactly.”

[dresden doll]

transfers do not qualify for honors at lots of schools because they don't take enough credits at the new school to qualify.

I was going to say, not sure many schools will even let you qualify for honors.

[beepboopbeep]

transfers do not qualify for honors at lots of schools because they don't take enough credits at the new school to qualify.

it may not be the case that transfers do "disproportionately" well, but they do indeed do well. deans from different t14s have noted the success of transfers at their schools. take dean tom for example (http://www.top-law-schools.com/tom-interview.html):

TLS: But transfers are pretty impressive. One of my friends was first in his class at the University of San Diego Law School, and he did quite well here after transferring into Boalt.

Dean Tom: “Yes, transfer students generally excel at Boalt.”

TLS: They’re such hard workers.

Dean Tom: “Exactly.”

What do you expect him to say? Transfers do poorly here? Schools want that moneyline, and transfers generally pay sticker. So they're going to say whatever they need to say to make potential transfers feel like they're making a good decision.

[brotherdarkness]

.

[whelmer]

transfers do not qualify for honors at lots of schools because they don't take enough credits at the new school to qualify.

it may not be the case that transfers do "disproportionately" well, but they do indeed do well. deans from different t14s have noted the success of transfers at their schools. take dean tom for example (http://www.top-law-schools.com/tom-interview.html):

TLS: But transfers are pretty impressive. One of my friends was first in his class at the University of San Diego Law School, and he did quite well here after transferring into Boalt.

Dean Tom: “Yes, transfer students generally excel at Boalt.”

TLS: They’re such hard workers.

Dean Tom: “Exactly.”

What do you expect him to say? Transfers do poorly here? Schools want that moneyline, and transfers generally pay sticker. So they're going to say whatever they need to say to make potential transfers feel like they're making a good decision.

He doesn't need to say anything. Not liked there's a shortage of students wanting to go to Berkeley. Berkeley doesn't need to accept any transfers if they don't want to, and it won't affect people's perception of the school or how much money the school makes. I don't think the "incentive" argument applies here.

[09042014]

transfers do not qualify for honors at lots of schools because they don't take enough credits at the new school to qualify.

I was going to say, not sure many schools will even let you qualify for honors.

Well at northwestern they do qualify for cum laude and magna cum laude, and our year they had a really shitty showing. Median jumps from 3.4 to 3.65 after 3L, which suggests a median of 3.775 for 2-3L. And still they many transfers failed to get to 3.65.

[09042014]

it's cuz once you have the grades to transfer, you're no longer in the 85% of kids who will likely get shitlaw. At the non-T14's, most of the class have bad prospects and a small percentage at the top usually have great prospects, unless the school is so shitty that no one has good prospects or something.

Going to a lower school initially means you risk being in that 85%. But after you get good grades as a 1L, that risk disappears and now you're part of the small chunk of students who have decent opportunities at OCI. So you're not comparing the prospects of average student at lower school to T14. You're comparing prospects of top student at lower school to T14, and that's the basis of his "only leads to marginal increase" argument.

Then that is an argument against going to a lower-ranked law school with the intention of transferring, not against transferring if you have the opportunity.

Yeah most ppl would agree it's dumb to go to lower school with the intention of transferring. I think there's arguments to be made on both sides as to whether forfeiting a large scholarship to transfer is a wise move. I go back and forth on it all the time myself

I think a part of the disconnect is that the T14 students don't really understand how poor the prospects are at the lower schools. I'm in the "could probably get BigLaw" cohort at my school, but i'm fighting for a spot among like...20-30 firms total, many of which are smaller and/or only looking to hire 1-2 kids at most (if any at all) from my school. So yeah i guess statistically my odds are okay, but there's very little room for error since the OCI attendance and number of offers are so low.

That said, I'm sure students at lower schools with big scholarships tend to underestimate the stress/hardship that comes with big debt even when u do get BigLaw.

That is a much better way to frame the argument than simply making a blanket statement that all transfer students are "retarded." The attitude of the latter argument did very well merit a "fuck you."

The decision to transfer or not definitely carries a trade-off, as does the decision of whether to attend a T14 at sticker or a lower-tier school with $$. In the end, students have to decide for themselves which is best for their situations. My position is that transferring is not necessarily a dumb decision in all cases.

I didn't call transfers retards, just on topic posters like yourself.

The decision to transfer or not definitely carries a trade-off, as does the decision of whether to attend a T14 at sticker or a lower-tier school with $$. In the end, students have to decide for themselves which is best for their situations. My position is that transferring is not necessarily a dumb decision in all cases.

Yes there are trade offs. But doing both is fucking retarded because you made two trade offs instead of one.

[09042014]

The amount of transfers where it's "worth it" for job prospects is severely overblown on TLS. Sure, if you are top 10% at a TTT that places 1% in big law, transfering to the t14 is a good play.

But t1 -> t14 is a waste unless you are going cross market. I wouldn't even recommend it if you pay sticker at both.

Also, the transfer OCI isn't as glamorous as you all think. Plenty strike out at OCI.

[BigZuck]

Has DF now moved into the "Suck my balls 1Ls" portion of his arc? Not really sure what the endgame is here but I'm enjoying the ride.

[sparty99]

When I saw the title of this thread I knew only one jackass could have wrote this. And then I clicked on the thread. And to no surprise, the OP was the jackass who I thought it would be. Didn't OP graduate law school a few years ago? What a sad and pathetic life.

[09042014]

When I saw the title of this thread I knew only one jackass could have wrote this. And then I clicked on the thread. And to no surprise, the OP was the jackass who I thought it would be. Didn't OP graduate law school a few years ago? What a sad and pathetic life.

Aren't you the nojerb loser who is best know for constantly getting banned for insulting people in the veil thread?

[sparty99]

When I saw the title of this thread I knew only one jackass could have wrote this. And then I clicked on the thread. And to no surprise, the OP was the jackass who I thought it would be. Didn't OP graduate law school a few years ago? What a sad and pathetic life.

Aren't you the nojerb loser who is best know for constantly getting banned for insulting people in the veil thread?

No. Because I have a job. But nice try.

[jbagelboy]

transfers do not qualify for honors at lots of schools because they don't take enough credits at the new school to qualify.

I was going to say, not sure many schools will even let you qualify for honors.

Well at northwestern they do qualify for cum laude and magna cum laude, and our year they had a really shitty showing. Median jumps from 3.4 to 3.65 after 3L, which suggests a median of 3.775 for 2-3L. And still they many transfers failed to get to 3.65.

I mean, again this is true but i think it misses the broader point. So few people continue trying after OCI that it's basically a joke to measure the comparative competition. The test at a T14 is your 1L class rank, not your 3L A+ rancid seminar stacking. The statement "transfers do well at their new T14" isn't primarily flawed because it's statistically wrong, it's flawed because it's meaningless to "do well" when no one reads or goes to class except the SCOTUS clerk gunners.