Fordham to Northwestern transfer... worth it?

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joy408
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Fordham to Northwestern transfer... worth it?

Postby joy408 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:52 pm

Hi! I'm new to TLS and I've done some (lots) of browsing in the last few days trying to get some advice on transferring. I finished my first year at Fordham right on the cusp of the top 10% (GPA was thousandths of a point away from top 10% cut off which was 3.60 this year). I did not make Law Review (was offered a spot on every other secondary and accepted one of those), and I have some scholarships (about 20K a year). Is it worth giving that up and my connections at Fordham to transfer to Northwestern? Also, I'm still waiting to hear from GULC, NYU, and CLS as well but those are doubtful because GPA is not that high. I have some strong mid-west ties with friends and family but ultimately want to clerk and work in biglaw in NYC, as well as teach years down the road (but only on the side, perhaps teach a night course on top of working in biglaw/in-house somewhere).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! My deposit is due on Tuesday. Thanks in advance!

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stillwater
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Re: Fordham to Northwestern transfer... worth it?

Postby stillwater » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:58 pm

joy408 wrote:Hi! I'm new to TLS and I've done some (lots) of browsing in the last few days trying to get some advice on transferring. I finished my first year at Fordham right on the cusp of the top 10% (GPA was thousandths of a point away from top 10% cut off which was 3.60 this year). I did not make Law Review (was offered a spot on every other secondary and accepted one of those), and I have some scholarships (about 20K a year). Is it worth giving that up and my connections at Fordham to transfer to Northwestern? Also, I'm still waiting to hear from GULC, NYU, and CLS as well but those are doubtful because GPA is not that high. I have some strong mid-west ties with friends and family but ultimately want to clerk and work in biglaw in NYC, as well as teach years down the road (but only on the side, perhaps teach a night course on top of working in biglaw/in-house somewhere).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! My deposit is due on Tuesday. Thanks in advance!


if you want NY, it seems like there is a distinct advantage of being in the market you wish to be in - NY. NW may take you farther away from your goal but ill defer to people with more intimate knowledge of the situation.

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IAFG
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Re: Fordham to Northwestern transfer... worth it?

Postby IAFG » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:19 pm

I do not believe the caliber of firm you get would be improved at all. I also seriously doubt F'ham would hold you back from the sort of casual teaching you are interested in. I would absolutely not make this move in light of your scholarship. But I would try to squeeze a little more money out of F'ham.

kyle010723
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Re: Fordham to Northwestern transfer... worth it?

Postby kyle010723 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:26 pm

If you go from Fordham to NU aiming for NYC, you will undoubtedly face the question from employer why move to Chicago when you're in NYC already. So though NU is a great school, I think you are already in a great place where you are at. I would stay if NYC is what you want.

edited: typed on phone failed
Last edited by kyle010723 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

joy408
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Re: Fordham to Northwestern transfer... worth it?

Postby joy408 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:30 pm

Thanks for all the replies so far! Ideally, I'd want to clerk first (and my dream would be for a district/circuit 2 year stint), and then do big law. The trend has been though for clerks to be hired after a few years WE at a firm, so I'm wondering if Northwestern will help with getting the clerkship...

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IAFG
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Re: Fordham to Northwestern transfer... worth it?

Postby IAFG » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:51 am

It might. How much will it help? If you strike out on clerkships, you're out a lot of money. NU isn't exactly a clerkship powerhouse. A common complaint is that students can't get profs to make calls as often/aggressively as happens at other schools.

kyle010723
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Re: Fordham to Northwestern transfer... worth it?

Postby kyle010723 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:14 am

With your goal, I think the ideal schools for you would be NYU or Columbia, assuming you get into one of those. Else ask Fordham for more money and stay there. LST says Fordham placed 20%+ in biglaw, being top 10%, you should feel fairly comfortable assuming nothing drastically happen over the next few years.

shock259
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Re: Fordham to Northwestern transfer... worth it?

Postby shock259 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:16 am

kyle010723 wrote:If you go from Fordham to NU aiming for NYC, you will undoubtedly face the question from employer why move to Chicago when you're in NYC already. So though NU is a great school, I think you are already in a great place where you are at. I would stay if NYC is what you want.

edited: typed on phone failed


This is sort of true, sort of not, in my experience. I transferred out of a secondary market to NYC. When I interviewed with firms in the secondary market, all did ask "why did you leave?" But all also seemed very content with explaining that it was the best career choice, it's a hard market out there, blah blah blah. I don't think it adversely affected me in that market. It might have helped that I have significant ties to the area (grew up there, etc).

Also, I think the most important question is what % of Fordham ppl get biglaw? How likely are you to get biglaw if you stay? If not that likely (or you don't want to gamble), then I'd transfer. Yes, it's more debt, but the difference between biglaw and shitlaw salaries will blow that away in no time.

Can't really comment on the clerking stuff. Not very familiar with it.

joy408
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Re: Fordham to Northwestern transfer... worth it?

Postby joy408 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:09 pm

I think last year 20ish % got BigLaw. I'm probably safe being close to top 10% as long as I don't blow the interviews, but it is a crap shoot depending on what firms you end up interviewing with (since Fordham is 60/40 firm preselect/student bidding). We get 35 bids total. I know students last year in the top 10% that didn't get anything and students in the top 50% that did, it's kinda of all over the place....

NU gets 50 bids and it's a grade blind student bidding only system, no firm preselect. The Career Services offices said about 50% of all BigLaw jobs are Chicago BigLaw and the 2nd largest BigLaw market is NYC. I think last year over 60% got BigLaw.

kyle010723
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Re: Fordham to Northwestern transfer... worth it?

Postby kyle010723 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:13 pm

I'd think preselect would work in your favor with your grades. Blind bidding/lottery works better for students with not so stellar grades.

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bk1
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Re: Fordham to Northwestern transfer... worth it?

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:17 pm

joy408 wrote:I think last year 20ish % got BigLaw. I'm probably safe being close to top 10% as long as I don't blow the interviews, but it is a crap shoot depending on what firms you end up interviewing with (since Fordham is 60/40 firm preselect/student bidding). We get 35 bids total. I know students last year in the top 10% that didn't get anything and students in the top 50% that did, it's kinda of all over the place....

NU gets 50 bids and it's a grade blind student bidding only system, no firm preselect. The Career Services offices said about 50% of all BigLaw jobs are Chicago BigLaw and the 2nd largest BigLaw market is NYC. I think last year over 60% got BigLaw.

I just don't see transferring from Fordham as worth it. I don't see your odds of biglaw going up. I suspect they'll stay the same but you'll face the possible hurdles of NYC firms asking why you transferred and Fordham alums who interview you giving you a hard time. So the additional cost just isn't worth it, imo, for biglaw.

I also don't think it's worth it for clerkships either. Professor connections matter a great deal for clerkships and you would be behind the ball as a transfer whereas at Fordham you already know some profs. NU also isn't a place that is renowned for its clerkship odds. I guess the only possible benefit is that you might be able to write on to LR at NU so you'd be transfer at NU with LR versus Fordham with secondary journal. But that's a big risk since you could easily not write on to LR. Moreover your odds at a clerkship likely would still not be all that great at NU. So you'd be paying an additional 40k+ for very minimal benefit and the high likelihood that you'd be back where you started (i.e. not getting a clerkship, even further down the road).




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