Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

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SandScale004
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby SandScale004 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:50 am

Birdnals wrote:
SandScale004 wrote:So you don't care that you are now competing against more people for the same spots?


Not really. At the rank people are complaining about, we were going to be competing against them for these jobs anyways. I would like to believe when employers are trying to decide who to give call backs to they will look at GPAs (which didn't change), not just the percentile cut offs next to that GPA.

I also would like to believe, outside of hard cut offs for initial interviews, the difference between 2 candidates who are separated by 5 percentage points or less will more likely come down to ties/experience/connections/how much the interviewer likes you/gpa than the rank/percentage next to that GPA.

I think you are right that percentiles only get you the initial interview, and after that, it's personality/experience/etc. But, just me personally, I'd rather be competing against 10 people, not 20 people. It's great for the people that now get to put in for those interviews. I'm sure they are thrilled. But it also makes it harder for those who were already there trying to get those jobs and now have to compete against more people (of course, I guess you can rationalize that the number stays at 10 if the other 10 transfer out).

From my experience, some places are more apt to look at rank/percentage because GPA changes from school to school, but rank/percentage is a more accurate reflection of where you stand in your class compared to your peers. A 3.3 GPA at one law school does not mean the same thing at every other law school. But top 10% means pretty much the same at every school: you are in the top 10% of your class (and so on and so on).

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hoos89
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby hoos89 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:38 am

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby TaipeiMort » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:53 am

Two questions (I haven't read the thread):

1) has ATL reported on WUSTL's shady practices yet?

2) has anyone massmailed firm hiring people notifying them that WUSTL is effectively lying to them?

If I was a 1L who is going to be competing with WUSTL students for jobs, I would get on this.

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hoos89
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby hoos89 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:00 pm

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TheZoid
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby TheZoid » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:00 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: It's not fair


Since when was law school supposed to be fair?


Lolwut? It's supposed to be as fair as it can be, which is not always perfectly fair. But there's a big difference between a seemingly arbitrary/random outlier grade, things not shaking out the way you hoped or expected, etc. and a deliberate manipulation of the rankings and cutoffs.

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hoos89
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby hoos89 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:02 pm

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hoos89
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby hoos89 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:03 pm

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kyle010723
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby kyle010723 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:05 pm

I dont currently go to WUSTL so I may very well be wrong. But from their website

Effective Fall 1994, Washington University School of Law discontinued ranking J.D. students. (Only students in the top 5% are informed of their rank.)

So I guess they dont rank anyone outside of the top 5%? i.e. if I'm outside of top 5%, I can careless, if I am within the top 5%, does being 1% and 5% really change the employment prospect that much?

Randomnumbers
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby Randomnumbers » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:10 pm

kyle010723 wrote:I dont currently go to WUSTL so I may very well be wrong. But from their website

Effective Fall 1994, Washington University School of Law discontinued ranking J.D. students. (Only students in the top 5% are informed of their rank.)

So I guess they dont rank anyone outside of the top 5%? i.e. if I'm outside of top 5%, I can careless, if I am within the top 5%, does being 1% and 5% really change the employment prospect that much?


We get percentile cutoffs for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, and 33%. It's not hard to figure about where you are if you fall into those areas.

kyle010723
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby kyle010723 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:12 pm

Randomnumbers wrote:We get percentile cutoffs for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, and 33%. It's not hard to figure about where you are if you fall into those areas.


Ok, that makes sense, so even though they dont provide individual ranking outside of top 5%, you still get a percentage cutoff.

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Birdnals
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby Birdnals » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:25 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:Two questions (I haven't read the thread):

1) has ATL reported on WUSTL's shady practices yet?

2) has anyone massmailed firm hiring people notifying them that WUSTL is effectively lying to them?

If I was a 1L who is going to be competing with WUSTL students for jobs, I would get on this.


Stop the presses! One school reports grades differently than another school now! Next thing you know, a B+ at one school is going to be different than a B+ at another! Maybe soon some schools won't even give percentile cutoffs, so employers will have to guess! Or shit, what if a school starts grading legal research while others only offer it p/f?! Whatever will employers do then!?

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby TaipeiMort » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:47 pm

hoos89 wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:Two questions (I haven't read the thread):

1) has ATL reported on WUSTL's shady practices yet?

2) has anyone massmailed firm hiring people notifying them that WUSTL is effectively lying to them?

If I was a 1L who is going to be competing with WUSTL students for jobs, I would get on this.


I'm sure that would put you in the hiring committees' good graces..."Hey this school I don't go to is doing this thing that will probably mean a couple of more people are in each cutoff." I'm guessing you were the kid who told the teacher when some kid on the playground pushed another kid.


Dude, I am a graduate and don't really care. At my school we didn't have class ranks. Still, maybe I am confused about the whole situation. Isn't WUSTL reranking students after transfers have left, and taking away class rankings from those that leave? That seems kind of dishonest. A bit different than Northwestern putting median at A-, or some schools not rankings. I prolly shouldn't judge though. If I was WUSTL's dean, I'd probably set up some scam like this too.

Also, the kid who sends out the email could just anon, like make up a fake gmail account.

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hoos89
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby hoos89 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:56 pm

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Re-Rankings at your law school - normal?

Postby TaipeiMort » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:23 pm

hoos89 wrote:True, they could do that. Either way I doubt the hiring committees are going to care that much. It's all a game and law schools are all trying to make their students more attractive to employers. Do you really think firms will think this is that much different than all the grade inflation and rank-hiding going on everywhere else?

The marginal (at best) effect this will have on students at other schools--notwithstanding all of the amazing and totally plausible hypos in this thread--should really not be enough to get them worked up enough to actually mass-mail firms about it.


Maybe, I don't really care. I guess getting the 5th person instead of the 3rd person in the class wouldn't matter. But, I bet there are opportunities the 3rd person in the class would have that the 16th wouldn't.




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