TTTT-->TT or T1? (Vault 50 summer associate) Forum

[canadianbeast]

Hi guys,

I know its late in the game but i have started considering transfer options (finished 1L couple weeks back). Current school TTTT east coast, wanting to stay in east coast either MA (where i am currently), NYC or PA. No regional ties as I am as international as they come.

I did not do as well as i would have liked first semester (B's across the board) because i made several mistakes i hope i rectified in my spring finals. WIll probably end up top 30% but grades wont be released for another several weeks.

I have no debt from 1st year (full ride) and money is not the biggest concern with regards to transferring and paying sticker elsewhere. I want to specialize in IP and my current school's course offerings are not as competitive in the area as other schools.

I networked my ass off from day one and was extremely lucky to land a V50 summer position (likely because of my work experience and language skills - fluent in 4). I know essentially grades are the only thing that matter so I was hoping someone could give some advice on where and if i should look to transfer.

Thank you all.

[Danger Zone]

There's nowhere that you could transfer with that school and those grades that would be worth giving up a full ride. As someone with no debt, a 1L SA, and decent grades, you should consider yourself extremely lucky. Try to parlay that SA into an offer for next summer and hopefully a full time job after graduation.

[canadianbeast]

Thank you for your reply.

The issue is the firm i have the summer position for is not the one I want to eventually work for. I was not even given a second glance from the firm i really want to work for (in NYC). They specialize in entertainment and IP stuff and basically just said they want me to take more classes in the field. Hence the problem, because my current school is more centred on public interest and does not have the specialized classes i really want to take.

[keg411]

Thank you for your reply.

The issue is the firm i have the summer position for is not the one I want to eventually work for. I was not even given a second glance from the firm i really want to work for (in NYC). They specialize in entertainment and IP stuff and basically just said they want me to take more classes in the field. Hence the problem, because my current school is more centred on public interest and does not have the specialized classes i really want to take.

Dude, you should be happy that you have a V50 firm job with your grades and your school. Focus on getting an offer from the bird in hand, whether it's your dream or not.

[canadianbeast]

^ I definitely will be focusing on that. Apart from good work and showing dedication what other things should I be doing to get an offer for next year...as next year is a long ways off.

I was very lucky this year and i dont know if i will be next year as well...which is why i was thinking to increase my chances even a little bit by scaling up the ranking. My school's OCI is very weak, luck plays a big role and who knows if the stars will align for me next year.

Graduating debt free or at least with minimal debt was my long term goal. Im just now realizing how impossible it is to get a decent job with my grades/school rank. Thus my considering anything that could improve my chances.

[Danger Zone]

The additional debt you will take on (sticker at a TT, possibly lower T1) will far outweigh any increased chance of employment in your desired field.

[canadianbeast]

I see. I have the money to pay for the next 2 years...i.e i would not be in debt to anyone. Would this make a difference or is that money better spent elsewhere or saved?

I guess my issue is that im very scared of losing this opportunity for next year and not having the position when i graduate. Which is why i have my current mentality to try and increase my chances in any way possible to keep the status quo.

[Jsa725]

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[canadianbeast]

^Thanks.

Beggars cant be choosers. I am very happy and know just how lucky i am to have the summer position i have. That said I will throw 3-4 apps around to schools in MA, NYC and PA.

Is there any thread here with advice on things to do during the summer position and through the year to hopefully lock down a job for graduation??

[bananapeanutbutter]

Why don't you ask the firm you're working with now (someone you have a good personal relationship with) if it would make a difference to them long term? I think most people with good grades at a top-14 would be more than willing to sign off on a top-50 firm in their choice market, and not need to stress about getting an offer.

[canadianbeast]

^ I have thought about doing that. As I have just started work, I want to wait until Mid July so I know who i can speak with about the transfer issue.

The firm i have the position with is not part of OCI at our school and the firm i really want to end up with does not take part in OCI at our school either. In fact very few relevant firms participate at our OCI.

Schools like fordham are out of the questions b/c they bar transfers from OCI. Ive given some thought to BU, GW, Cardozo and Brooklyn. Brooklyn has the BLIP clinic which i would love to partake in.

Just dont know what to do honestly.

[bananapeanutbutter]

^ I have thought about doing that. As I have just started work, I want to wait until Mid July so I know who i can speak with about the transfer issue.

The firm i have the position with is not part of OCI at our school and the firm i really want to end up with does not take part in OCI at our school either. In fact very few relevant firms participate at our OCI.

Schools like fordham are out of the questions b/c they bar transfers from OCI. Ive given some thought to BU, GW, Cardozo and Brooklyn. Brooklyn has the BLIP clinic which i would love to partake in.

Just dont know what to do honestly.

I think you can probably just find a way to bring it up. You could ask a partner where he went to law school, and as it's likely not a shithole, you'll open the door for it to not be random to ask about whether you should consider transferring.

[Jsa725]

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[canadianbeast]

Im not eligible for the patent bar as i dont have a science or engineering background. . I do have solid work experience in software/IP in general though.

Ultimately I do want to be a good IP lawyer. I need solid classes and professors excelling in IP to do that.

What about staying put and going as a visiting student to a school for their IP classes for a semester or two? Is there any value in that at all?

And my PS in general will be IP specific. Ill keep updating my resume if i chose to throw out transfer apps' including what projects im working on.

[Jsa725]

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[canadianbeast]

I did not. I just read up on it and want to kick myself in the ass for not knowing about it. Perhaps next year when I have some good experience under my belt from this summer I will look like a more attractive candidate.

I think if any place is worth it its GW in terms of transferring that makes sense. And perhaps Brooklyn as well because of their strong regional ties to solid entertainment law firms.

[jnturner]

Hi All,

Since this thread is completely related to my question, hopefully canadianbeast won't mind me hijacking it for a moment. I am hoping I can get some advice from all of you experienced peeps out there. I currently go to a TTTT law school. I have 4.0 and am top of the class. I got a 170 on my LSAT and was accepted to UW Madison, but because I was offered a full scholarship, I chose the TTTT law school. I am now trying to transfer. First, what do you think my chances are of getting accepted to Harvard, Yale, or UVA (and yes I realize the jump from a TTTT to HYS is quite unlikely). Second, given the state of the job market, would you consider it better to graduate with no loans or better job prospects (an additional factor being there might be certain perks in graduating top of your class at any school)? Finally, outside of the NY schools, are there any other top ten schools you would highly recommend that you believe I would have a fair shot at being accepted to?

Thanks

[canadianbeast]

^ congrats on your grades. It might make a lot more sense for you than for me to transfer because of high you can likely scale the list. My personal goal was graduating without debt so i went the same route as you. That being said, i have a friend who transfered from a TTTT to a T20 WITH SCHOLARSHIP. He was accepted into a T10 and leveraged that into a decent scholarship at his T20...this though is very rare.

Did you have any success getting a position somewhere as a 1L? If not, it may be better to go somewhere that could increase your chances.

[jnturner]

Hey thanks for your response canadianbeast. Yeah I got a pretty competitive internship this summer. My initials thoughts have been that it wouldn't be worth it to apply outside the top 10 if I am going to be giving up my full scholarship. Anyway that anecdote was helpful. I am sure it is rare, but nonetheless good to know it isn't unheard of.

[canadianbeast]

^ that sounds great. I got extremely lucky with my placement and am busting my ass staying in the office till 8-9 most nights. So hopefully I can work again next summer.

Its true that school rank and class rank matter. But what i have learned from my personal experience is that firms want to invest in the person. So if you network like your life depends on it, you're well prepared and interview well, you have a decent shot. Which is why I am inclined to perhaps stay put because I have had decent success as a 1L.

Im torn about giving up my full ride. I havent sent in my apps yet...but my final grades aren't out and all LOR's have not been submitted yet so I still have time.

p.s I personally would not consider transferring, giving up rank and taking on more debt. You've done incredibly well and have had solid success in market thus far.

[canadianbeast]

Update - I got invited back to work for my firm next year. Got into some schools as transfer but ive decided its not worth paying sticker anywhere. Thanks a lot for advice from the above posters, and good luck to everyone this recruiting season.

[jmls1987]

Update - I got invited back to work for my firm next year. Got into some schools as transfer but ive decided its not worth paying sticker anywhere. Thanks a lot for advice from the above posters, and good luck to everyone this recruiting season.

How did you do this transfer cycle ? I was also at a TTTT, and was accepted to a couple T20 schools. I figured I had to get out of my TTTT while I could. Didn't have a great summer position like you did.

[canadianbeast]

^ I was accepted into a couple T1's all ranked in the 40-50's. I did better my spring semester and ended up top 30% (mediocre at best) which precluded acceptance into anything in the coveted T14's. So even with my 1L SA, the general consensus that grades are the only thing that matter as a transfer is very accurate.

If you transferred out of your TTTT its probably the best decision you made if you didnt have any scholarship or a foot in the door at a decent firm.