Top 3% at TTT/TTTT in target market >> anywhere make sense?

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Anonymous User
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Top 3% at TTT/TTTT in target market >> anywhere make sense?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:25 pm

I got top 3% first semester at TTT/TTTT in my target market (smaller secondary) with years of relevent WE. I really want the market I'm currently in for family reasons. I'll be debt free if I graduate from my current school (scholly + stipend). I have a mortgage so I'd have to carry two housing payments if I transfer, which adds $15K-$20K to my tuition cost over the last two years.

My target market only has 8 firms with more than 50 attorneys in an office. I've had 1L SA CBs with 4 of them. I snagged a paid in-house 1L diversity SA. An offer/ding from 1 CB is still outstanding. The other firms most likely passed on me due to my school rank. I feel like my interviews went really well. I'm aware that a 1L SA in such a small market is virtually impossible, but getting Biglaw from anywhere but the local T14 is only a slightly higher probability. My desire to transfer is exclusively due to the feeling that my school rank got me shut out of 1L Biglaw SA, which leads me to believe the same will happen with the 2L jobs. I have decent connections at 2 of the top 3 firms here that I may be able to squeeze a 2L SA out of. But the fact remains that I only know of a handful of people from the last three classes that got Biglaw. All were at or below my current rank, which is encouraging. However, half a percent chance means I'm not likely to land anything.

The local T14 looks bleak for a transfer, but I'm going to try. The T1 that's 2 hours away is probable, but only places 10% in biglaw and would mean $70-100K in debt depending on scholly, which they've been known to give to transfers. GULC looks possible but I'm not sure how much sense it would make since none of the firms I'm shooting for do interviews at GULC for their offices in my market. I'd basically just be networking and using my current connections like I've already been doing.

Will I get a bump for operating a business that would make GULC/local T14 more likely?

If local T14 says no, will the T1 that places 10% biglaw but is well-respected in my current market be worth the $70-100K in debt and relocating my family for 4 semesters, considering that I'm already getting looks from the firms I want?

Would going to GULC just to come back to this market make sense considering the $110K price tag and uprooting the family?

Should I just enjoy the scholly + stipend and be fine if all I can land is a $50K/year job without the biglaw hours after graduation?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

RPK34
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Re: Top 3% at TTT/TTTT in target market >> anywhere make sense?

Postby RPK34 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:37 pm

If you're anon, just say the market/local t-14/T1. Otherwise it's impossible to really say

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jkpolk
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Re: Top 3% at TTT/TTTT in target market >> anywhere make sense?

Postby jkpolk » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:47 pm

You're crushing free law school and you've networked your way into a decent position. Even if you don't transfer it sounds like you have a non-negligible shot at a job.

I don't think the bump from a T1 would be worth the extra cash, but a T14 may be worth it. Once you apply/get in- you just need to make a contextual choice about whether the T14 bump would justify spending an extra 100k on your degree. I assume there IS a bump, but I cant quantify it for you :( Seems to come down to risk aversion, but since you have a family I think transferring for any substantial, additional job security makes sense.

Congratulations on your options.

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jessuf
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Re: Top 3% at TTT/TTTT in target market >> anywhere make sense?

Postby jessuf » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:10 pm

Knowing the market is really important. Also the offer rates of the few big firms in your area. It sounds a lot like the small market I came from, but all of the big law offices there were notorious for no offering SAs.

With that said, being able to get interviews with these firms as a 1L is really promising. Staying put but going even harder at networking and working hard to get top 1% might be your best option.

I transferred to GULC, and I did some interviews in my small home market. I think a combination of having both GULC and my good rank from my old school got me the interviews. However, it seems that the people who actually got the SAs were T6 with strong ties or local T1 top 1-3%ers.

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Re: Top 3% at TTT/TTTT in target market >> anywhere make sense?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:37 pm

Thanks for all the replies.

Duke is the T14. Wake is the T1. The market I want is NC, but I'm increasingly feeling like it's not going to happen unless I get Duke in the transfer process. It's just too small of a market for the supply. 7 schools are in this state with maybe 20 biglaw offices big enough to hire more than a couple first year associates between the Triangle, Triad, and Charlotte.

Am I just getting all bent out of shape over nothing because no one but T14 gets a 1L Biglaw SA? Are interviews literally worth nothing without a T1 or better school on your resume? Has there even been a T3/T4 1L biglaw SA in the last 3 years?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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LazinessPerSe
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Re: Top 3% at TTT/TTTT in target market >> anywhere make sense?

Postby LazinessPerSe » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:42 pm

I transferred out of Elon last year because the NC market was so saturated. TLS wisdom on Duke is that they are not transfer-friendly. People from HYS / CCN, let alone the rest of the T14 regularly strike out at NC "BigLaw" because there's a glut of lawyers in NC and more than enough home-state pride for firms like Brooks Pierce, etc, to pull from Duke/UNC/Wake.

I don't mean to pull the rug out from under your dream, but LST does not have any data indicating that graduates from Elon/NC Central/Campbell have made it into BigLaw. If this is your dream, I would consider transferring. I personally know several people from Elon made the jump over to Wake last year. In your shoes, I would make an all-out push for Duke (but expecting to be denied). If UNC didn't have a blanket denial policy for NC transfers, I would consider them over Wake. But I'd agree with others that Wake doesn't appear worth the cost if you want BigLaw.

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Re: Top 3% at TTT/TTTT in target market >> anywhere make sense?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:32 am

LazinessPerSe wrote:I don't mean to pull the rug out from under your dream, but LST does not have any data indicating that graduates from Elon/NC Central/Campbell have made it into BigLaw. If this is your dream, I would consider transferring. I personally know several people from Elon made the jump over to Wake last year. In your shoes, I would make an all-out push for Duke (but expecting to be denied). If UNC didn't have a blanket denial policy for NC transfers, I would consider them over Wake. But I'd agree with others that Wake doesn't appear worth the cost if you want BigLaw.


You're not killing my dream. I never dreamed I'd get a single 1L SA interview from my current school. I didn't think there was anyway I could compete with a bunch of single, young 20-somethings considering my other commitments. That's the reason I went the high scholly/low financial risk route in the first place. Considering that I wasn't even close to Duke when I first applied, the odds are probably none that it will happen this time.

My odds of Biglaw would have been much greater (but still too low for my risk tolerance) from Wake/UNC if I had gone there. I probably still would've crushed it. But now that I'm here, I'm stuck. Even if I transferred to Wake, I'm pretty sure I'd still get beaten out by the same candidates from Duke/UNC/Wake that are beating me now. I'm thinking about directly asking a couple of the firms if they would give me more serious consideration if I transferred. Should I do this?

It seems like TCR is just for me to keep working hard and re-adjust my expectations down to where they were before I crushed first semester and networked my way into some interviews for jobs that were (and will continue to be) above my reach.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

InRemington
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Re: Top 3% at TTT/TTTT in target market >> anywhere make sense?

Postby InRemington » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:53 am

Anonymous User wrote: I'm thinking about directly asking a couple of the firms if they would give me more serious consideration if I transferred. Should I do this?


I asked a firm that dinged my 1L summer attempt this exact question. I had a warm intro into the firm so felt comfortable floating the question and I'm glad I did. Might be different for you but I was pointedly told that my school (TTT/TTTT) was the only reason they passed on me; took someone from the very state school (40-60) I was looking at.

It's funny you mentioned being content - I was perfectly satisfied with my choice of school until I smoked first semester grades and got a summer position that should have been out of my league.

I'm not in your region but feel free to pm for details.

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jessuf
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Re: Top 3% at TTT/TTTT in target market >> anywhere make sense?

Postby jessuf » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:04 pm

I don't think big law is impossible at all for T3/T4 students. It's just really rare outside top 1-2% and really depends on the market. It sounds like your market is too small to have much room for T3/T4 students.

Looking at the profiles of attorneys for the firms you interviewed with, do you see any from your current school? If you don't, bad sign. If you do, e-mail those attorneys and start a dialogue. See if they will give you advice or tell you what rank got them hired.

If you are super set on your market, have you considered non-big law? Also, you seem to understand how to start and run your own business (and presumably market it). Have you thought of trying a solo shop?

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Re: Top 3% at TTT/TTTT in target market >> anywhere make sense?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:31 pm

Jessuf wrote:I don't think big law is impossible at all for T3/T4 students. It's just really rare outside top 1-2% and really depends on the market. It sounds like your market is too small to have much room for T3/T4 students.

Looking at the profiles of attorneys for the firms you interviewed with, do you see any from your current school? If you don't, bad sign. If you do, e-mail those attorneys and start a dialogue. See if they will give you advice or tell you what rank got them hired.

If you are super set on your market, have you considered non-big law? Also, you seem to understand how to start and run your own business (and presumably market it). Have you thought of trying a solo shop?


Yes, there are grads from my school at the biggest firms in the market. A few from the Class of '10, but not as many since then. It seems like our grads were the first to get cut out of the picture when the recession hit. I've made contact with a few that made it and they were all around my rank. I guess if the economy keeps looking up, the firms might give one or two of us a shot again like they used to during 2L OCI. If they do, it seems like I'll have a pretty good chance of being one of them.

What you've described as far as mid/small/solo law were my expectations coming in. I really don't want to go solo due to the extremely low initial income and the general lack of stability.




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