Negotiating with M?

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Anonymous User
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Negotiating with M?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:08 pm

I did very well my first semester at M of MVP. I am considering transferring.

Does anyone know if M negotiates if you get accepted somewhere else? Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence/personal experience?

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Wholigan
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Re: Negotiating with M?

Postby Wholigan » Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I did very well my first semester at M of MVP. I am considering transferring.

Does anyone know if M negotiates if you get accepted somewhere else? Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence/personal experience?


No personal experience but others have reported that T14 schools don't play the game. Why would they? Schools offer $$$ for a reason, not out of largesse. When they offer incoming scholarships, it's to boost their LSAT/GPA figures for USNWR. Think about the reason that schools offer extra $$$ to stay - it's because students at the top are employable and will boost the school's employment numbers. Why would a school with 98-99% employment and a median salary of $160k want to pay anyone to stay?

bdubs
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Re: Negotiating with M?

Postby bdubs » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:02 pm

Wholigan wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I did very well my first semester at M of MVP. I am considering transferring.

Does anyone know if M negotiates if you get accepted somewhere else? Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence/personal experience?


No personal experience but others have reported that T14 schools don't play the game. Why would they? Schools offer $$$ for a reason, not out of largesse. When they offer incoming scholarships, it's to boost their LSAT/GPA figures for USNWR. Think about the reason that schools offer extra $$$ to stay - it's because students at the top are employable and will boost the school's employment numbers. Why would a school with 98-99% employment and a median salary of $160k want to pay anyone to stay?


Michigan doesn't have employment statistics that are even close to that.

I don't really know anything about whether they will negoatiate or not, but I have heard stories of T14s offering scholarships to students who were thinking of transferring to HYS.

Each student they lose to HYS is usually one fewer clerkship candidate (who probably could have gunned for COA), in addition to being employable.

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justonemoregame
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Re: Negotiating with M?

Postby justonemoregame » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:06 pm

Seems to me they wouldn't play the game bc they don't have to. One person out, another person in. If the person going out was on scholarship already, win.

KidStuddi
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Re: Negotiating with M?

Postby KidStuddi » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:22 pm

bdubs wrote:Each student they lose to HYS is usually one fewer clerkship candidate (who probably could have gunned for COA), in addition to being employable.


Doesn't really work that way, especially for clerkships, unless they don't re-rank after attrition (and why would they do that?). If #1, 2 and 3 leave after 1L year, that might slightly hurt fall OCI, which happens so soon thereafter. But come time for clerkship applications, there will be a new #1, 2, 3 who, practically speaking, have just as good of a shot at landing those clerkships as the students who left. No judge is going to sit there trying to parse out who had the higher 1L GPA when your ranking at the time of application is readily available. Further, in a head-to-head matchup, the candidate who transferred is probably less competitive since they likely won't be on Law Review at their new schools.

Re:Getting Money -- I've generally heard that T14 (even T20) schools don't play this game because they're more than happy to fill your newly vacant seat with a student eager to pay sticker.

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Wholigan
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Re: Negotiating with M?

Postby Wholigan » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:11 pm

bdubs wrote:
Wholigan wrote:Why would a school with 98-99% employment and a median salary of $160k want to pay anyone to stay?


Michigan doesn't have employment statistics that are even close to that.

I don't really know anything about whether they will negoatiate or not, but I have heard stories of T14s offering scholarships to students who were thinking of transferring to HYS.

Each student they lose to HYS is usually one fewer clerkship candidate (who probably could have gunned for COA), in addition to being employable.


Okay, $147k for c/o 2011 and 95% employment. (Although it was $160k for the two years prior to that)

The point remains that the handful of people per year who might consider transferring to HYS are not going to make a dent in employment numbers. If somebody wants to gun for COA and has the credentials to transfer, that person is likely better off or at least just as well off staying. There are really very few jobs that anyone is qualified for as a HYS transfer that someone who is top 10% at M with LR is not qualified for, with the exception of maybe academia/fellowships if the student transfers to Yale.

bdubs
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Re: Negotiating with M?

Postby bdubs » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:51 am

Wholigan wrote:
bdubs wrote:
Wholigan wrote:Why would a school with 98-99% employment and a median salary of $160k want to pay anyone to stay?


Michigan doesn't have employment statistics that are even close to that.

I don't really know anything about whether they will negoatiate or not, but I have heard stories of T14s offering scholarships to students who were thinking of transferring to HYS.

Each student they lose to HYS is usually one fewer clerkship candidate (who probably could have gunned for COA), in addition to being employable.


Okay, $147k for c/o 2011 and 95% employment. (Although it was $160k for the two years prior to that)

The point remains that the handful of people per year who might consider transferring to HYS are not going to make a dent in employment numbers. If somebody wants to gun for COA and has the credentials to transfer, that person is likely better off or at least just as well off staying. There are really very few jobs that anyone is qualified for as a HYS transfer that someone who is top 10% at M with LR is not qualified for, with the exception of maybe academia/fellowships if the student transfers to Yale.


You're not looking very closely at the employment numbers. Only 60% of students had a known salary. I can guarantee that the median would fall dramatically if you included the other 40%. Also, 95% is a bit of an overstatement when only 79% had a job that required bar passage.

Whether its advantageous for the student to transfer to HYS or not isn't really the question that Michigan would face. They count the number of COA clerks and having one of those people leave for another school reduces the percentage pretty significantly when there are only 10 to 20 clerks each year.

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Wholigan
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Re: Negotiating with M?

Postby Wholigan » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:54 am

bdubs wrote:
Wholigan wrote:
bdubs wrote:
Wholigan wrote:Why would a school with 98-99% employment and a median salary of $160k want to pay anyone to stay?


Michigan doesn't have employment statistics that are even close to that.

I don't really know anything about whether they will negoatiate or not, but I have heard stories of T14s offering scholarships to students who were thinking of transferring to HYS.

Each student they lose to HYS is usually one fewer clerkship candidate (who probably could have gunned for COA), in addition to being employable.


Okay, $147k for c/o 2011 and 95% employment. (Although it was $160k for the two years prior to that)

The point remains that the handful of people per year who might consider transferring to HYS are not going to make a dent in employment numbers. If somebody wants to gun for COA and has the credentials to transfer, that person is likely better off or at least just as well off staying. There are really very few jobs that anyone is qualified for as a HYS transfer that someone who is top 10% at M with LR is not qualified for, with the exception of maybe academia/fellowships if the student transfers to Yale.


You're not looking very closely at the employment numbers. Only 60% of students had a known salary. I can guarantee that the median would fall dramatically if you included the other 40%. Also, 95% is a bit of an overstatement when only 79% had a job that required bar passage.

Whether its advantageous for the student to transfer to HYS or not isn't really the question that Michigan would face. They count the number of COA clerks and having one of those people leave for another school reduces the percentage pretty significantly when there are only 10 to 20 clerks each year.


Didn't say anything about bar passage or known salaries. Besides, aren't these COA clerks that you think M is so worried about jumping ship in jobs that don't require bar passage?




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