Top 15% @ T20 to HYS/CCN/B- What are my chances? Forum

[Nammertat]

I ended up with a 3.7 (top 15%) from a school ranked 17-20 and am looking for potential transfer options. Currently only getting 10k/year, and at the very least want negotiating opportunities.

3.95 Undergrad GPA (bombed the LSAT, hence the no T6 currently)
3 years work experience w/ some interesting softs

I'd be extremely interested in transferring to H/Y/S // C/C/N // Berkeley.

Any insight on my chances?

[quiver]

None of those schools have EA or ED so this is way too speculative right now. Maintain or improve your grades then come back and ask your chances. That said, I'm bored so I'll humor you:

Probably out at YSH (very small chance)
50-60% chance at CCN
55-60% chance at B with no ties, 75% chance with ties/law school in CA.

[Nammertat]

None of those schools have EA or ED so this is way too speculative right now. Maintain or improve your grades then come back and ask your chances. That said, I'm bored so I'll humor you:

Probably out at YSH (very small chance)
50-60% chance at CCN
55-60% chance at B with no ties, 75% chance with ties/law school in CA.

That's about what I was thinking as well. Short of pulling a 3.9+ next semester, HYS are pretty faint possibilities. I'm going to throw an early action app to GULC and Chicago to see what happens. If I get into Chicago that's obviously all she wrote (binding ED).

[KidStuddi]

GW? If so feel free to PM for perspective from someone who went through it last year.

[fltanglab]

None of those schools have EA or ED so this is way too speculative right now. Maintain or improve your grades then come back and ask your chances. That said, I'm bored so I'll humor you:

Probably out at YSH (very small chance)
50-60% chance at CCN
55-60% chance at B with no ties, 75% chance with ties/law school in CA.

Out of curiosity, why out/very small chance at YSH?

[stillwater]

None of those schools have EA or ED so this is way too speculative right now. Maintain or improve your grades then come back and ask your chances. That said, I'm bored so I'll humor you:

Probably out at YSH (very small chance)
50-60% chance at CCN
55-60% chance at B with no ties, 75% chance with ties/law school in CA.

Out of curiosity, why out/very small chance at YSH?

top 15% isn't ranked high enough.

[KidStuddi]

None of those schools have EA or ED so this is way too speculative right now. Maintain or improve your grades then come back and ask your chances. That said, I'm bored so I'll humor you:

Probably out at YSH (very small chance)
50-60% chance at CCN
55-60% chance at B with no ties, 75% chance with ties/law school in CA.

Out of curiosity, why out/very small chance at YSH?

top 15% isn't ranked high enough.

This isn't, strictly speaking, the reason. OP's school only ranks by bands. In this case, top 15% means top 1-15%. If OP had a 4.333 his transcript would still only say top 15%.

3.7 is probably somewhere in the 7-10% range when extrapolated out. I agree YSH is a long shot, but it's more because 7-10% of GW's class is 30-40 kids with higher GPAs many of whom will apply to YSH too and they'll only take so many from one school.

[Nammertat]

None of those schools have EA or ED so this is way too speculative right now. Maintain or improve your grades then come back and ask your chances. That said, I'm bored so I'll humor you:

Probably out at YSH (very small chance)
50-60% chance at CCN
55-60% chance at B with no ties, 75% chance with ties/law school in CA.

Out of curiosity, why out/very small chance at YSH?

top 15% isn't ranked high enough.

This isn't, strictly speaking, the reason. OP's school only ranks by bands. In this case, top 15% means top 1-15%. If OP had a 4.333 his transcript would still only say top 15%.

3.7 is probably somewhere in the 7-10% range when extrapolated out. I agree YSH is a long shot, but it's more because 7-10% of GW's class is 30-40 kids with higher GPAs many of whom will apply to YSH too and they'll only take so many from one school.

Agreed all around. There is always hope of doing better next semester but at this point I'm just trying to keep my head down and keep working my butt off!!

[005618502]

Would top 15% at MVPB (if grades come back the same) have a chance at HYS? I never thought about transferring, but could maybe use it to leverage money.

[BarcaCrossesTheAlps]

Why no Penn?

[Nammertat]

Why no Penn?

With me wanting patent litigation, Penn would be a downgrade from my current school.

[005618502]

Why no Penn?

With me wanting patent litigation, Penn would be a downgrade from my current school.

lol at thinking specialty rankings actually mean something. This is almost certainly not true.

Baylor is VERY well regarded with their litigation/trial preparation. This does not mean that a litigation firm would take a Baylor grad over a UT grad.

[Nammertat]

Why no Penn?

With me wanting patent litigation, Penn would be a downgrade from my current school.

lol at thinking specialty rankings actually mean something. This is almost certainly not true.

Baylor is VERY well regarded with their litigation/trial preparation. This does not mean that a litigation firm would take a Baylor grad over a UT grad.

Wasn't trying to emphasize the litigation part. There is absolutely patent bias out there based solely on the types of firms at OCI.

[005618502]

Why no Penn?

With me wanting patent litigation, Penn would be a downgrade from my current school.

lol at thinking specialty rankings actually mean something. This is almost certainly not true.

Baylor is VERY well regarded with their litigation/trial preparation. This does not mean that a litigation firm would take a Baylor grad over a UT grad.

Wasn't trying to emphasize the litigation part. There is absolutely patent bias out there based solely on the types of firms at OCI.

lol that doesnt mean that those firms wouldnt rather have someone from Penn... trust me, they would.

But that is beside the point. Fact is you need to kill it one more time. Just a little harder. I think you have a good shot at Chicago ED (are you doing that?) If you can get into the T10% I think you will have a good shot at HCCN

[KidStuddi]

With me wanting patent litigation, Penn would be a downgrade from my current school.

lol at thinking specialty rankings actually mean something. This is almost certainly not true.

Baylor is VERY well regarded with their litigation/trial preparation. This does not mean that a litigation firm would take a Baylor grad over a UT grad.

Wasn't trying to emphasize the litigation part. There is absolutely patent bias out there based solely on the types of firms at OCI.

lol that doesnt mean that those firms wouldnt rather have someone from Penn... trust me, they would.

But that is beside the point. Fact is you need to kill it one more time. Just a little harder. I think you have a good shot at Chicago ED (are you doing that?) If you can get into the T10% I think you will have a good shot at HCCN

While generally speaking the speciality rankings don't mean much, this ranking has some merit to it. The current sitting Chief Justice of the Federal Circuit (i.e. the final word on patent law in the U.S. unless the SCOTUS decides to intervene) teaches patent law at GW. Unsurprisingly, getting an A in his class means something to employers. Being a GW alum and teaching here, he often shows preference for clerks from GW as well. The other IP faculty are also very widely respected as being at or near the top of the field. The IP journal produced here is very widely read.

So, no, IP firms would not rather have the Penn IP kid. Additionally, the school's IP reputation is able to get many, many IP firms to recruit here. Far more than Penn, or anywhere else probably, short of Loyola's Patent Fair.

Not saying the Penn kid isn't competitive for jobs, but you're pretty misinformed if you think transferring to Penn is an upgrade over GW for finding IP work.

[Nammertat]

That's absolutely the truth. I realize there is still work to be done. I think I have decided against Chicago- my wife may just die if we had to spend two years in that kind of cold! I'm going to put in the paperwork for GULC EA as a start, but definitely have some high hopes for spring!

[005618502]

While generally speaking the speciality rankings don't mean much, this is ranking has some merit to it. The current sitting Chief Justice of the Federal Circuit (i.e. the final word on patent law in the U.S. unless the SCOTUS decides to intervene) teaches patent law at GW. Unsurprisingly, getting an A in his class means something to employers. Being a GW alum and teaching here, he often shows preference for clerks from GW as well. The other IP faculty are also very widely respected as being at or near the top of the field. The IP journal produced here is very widely read.

So, no, IP firms would not rather have the Penn IP kid. Additionally, the school's IP reputation is able to get many, many IP firms to recruit here. Far more than Penn, or anywhere else probably, short of Loyola's Patent Fair.

Not saying the Penn kid isn't competitive for jobs, but you're pretty misinformed if you think transferring to Penn is an upgrade over GW for finding IP work.

Do you go to GW? This sounds like a statement from someone who has drank some strong Kool Aid. You must not go to a MVPB. If you have a hard science degree and are only looking for IP at my school, I have heard of kids who are in the bottom of the class, never even tried and have big law IP lined up. I just dont see that happening for a GW student. I could be wrong though, maybe its just as easy there. I will say this. With a hard science degree, looking for IP from a MVP... you will not have to worry about anything when looking for a biglaw paycheck come OCI

[005618502]

That's absolutely the truth. I realize there is still work to be done. I think I have decided against Chicago- my wife may just die if we had to spend two years in that kind of cold! I'm going to put in the paperwork for GULC EA as a start, but definitely have some high hopes for spring!

Good luck. Top 15% is not a bad place to be at all, especially with a science degree focusing on IP.

[KidStuddi]

Do you go to GW? This sounds like a statement from someone who has drank some strong Kool Aid. You must not go to a MVPB. If you have a hard science degree and are only looking for IP at my school, I have heard of kids who are in the bottom of the class, never even tried and have big law IP lined up. I just dont see that happening for a GW student. I could be wrong though, maybe its just as easy there. I will say this. With a hard science degree, looking for IP from a MVP... you will not have to worry about anything when looking for a biglaw paycheck come OCI

I'm at GW, but I'm really just stating facts. IP Secure exists at GW too. You might not see it happening, but I saw it no less than half dozen times personally less than 6 months ago where median and below friends ended up with market paying IP gigs.

But this conversation wasn't about below median at Penn v. below median at GW. We're talking near top of the class at GW versus whatever employers view transfers at at Penn. You're either vastly overrating the placement power of transfer and therefore no law review/journal/comparable grades at MVPB or vastly underestimating the job prospects of top 15% and law review at GW.

[queenlizzie13]

Do you go to GW? This sounds like a statement from someone who has drank some strong Kool Aid. You must not go to a MVPB. If you have a hard science degree and are only looking for IP at my school, I have heard of kids who are in the bottom of the class, never even tried and have big law IP lined up. I just dont see that happening for a GW student. I could be wrong though, maybe its just as easy there. I will say this. With a hard science degree, looking for IP from a MVP... you will not have to worry about anything when looking for a biglaw paycheck come OCI

I'm at GW, but I'm really just stating facts. IP Secure exists at GW too. You might not see it happening, but I saw it no less than half dozen times personally less than 6 months ago where median and below friends ended up with market paying IP gigs.

But this conversation wasn't about below median at Penn v. below median at GW. We're talking near top of the class at GW versus whatever employers view transfers at at Penn. You're either vastly overrating the placement power of transfer and therefore no law review/journal/comparable grades at MVPB or vastly underestimating the job prospects of top 15% and law review at GW.

Credited. I saw it too/heard about it. IP people at GW did very well this year, even if they didn't get jobs through OCI many still landed big law (or at least midsize) outside of it/at loyola patent fair and these were some of these people were definitely at/below median.

Also near top of the class + IP at GW will basically get you almost everywhere. Don't even need to be on LR though it helps.

[Flips88]

That's absolutely the truth. I realize there is still work to be done. I think I have decided against Chicago- my wife may just die if we had to spend two years in that kind of cold! I'm going to put in the paperwork for GULC EA as a start, but definitely have some high hopes for spring!

Good luck. Top 15% is not a bad place to be at all, especially with a science degree focusing on IP.

I'm gonna step in just to ask why you would want to transfer from GW to GULC? Isn't GULC's class size like 200 more than GW's and being top 10% at GW might be more advantageous than transferring to GULC

[Nammertat]

That's absolutely the truth. I realize there is still work to be done. I think I have decided against Chicago- my wife may just die if we had to spend two years in that kind of cold! I'm going to put in the paperwork for GULC EA as a start, but definitely have some high hopes for spring!

Good luck. Top 15% is not a bad place to be at all, especially with a science degree focusing on IP.

So here is where it gets sticky.... I do not have a science degree. I was an idiot in undergrad and got Pre-Law and History degrees. I do however have 3 1/2 years of work experience in engineering (I had a CS degree through my sophomore year, and got lucky in the job market). That is why it was so critical that make the top 15%, it was the only way I'd have a shot at patent lit.

[Nammertat]

That's absolutely the truth. I realize there is still work to be done. I think I have decided against Chicago- my wife may just die if we had to spend two years in that kind of cold! I'm going to put in the paperwork for GULC EA as a start, but definitely have some high hopes for spring!

Good luck. Top 15% is not a bad place to be at all, especially with a science degree focusing on IP.

I'm gonna step in just to ask why you would want to transfer from GW to GULC? Isn't GULC's class size like 200 more than GW's and being top 10% at GW might be more advantageous than transferring to GULC

Didn't want to broadcast this, but I have almost no intention of transferring to GUCL. I'm applying because they have EA and I want to leverage GW into giving me some more $$. (I was a heavy reverse splitter and thus ended up with very little scholarship 0L.)

[Flips88]

I'm gonna step in just to ask why you would want to transfer from GW to GULC? Isn't GULC's class size like 200 more than GW's and being top 10% at GW might be more advantageous than transferring to GULC

Didn't want to broadcast this, but I have almost no intention of transferring to GUCL. I'm applying because they have EA and I want to leverage GW into giving me some more $$. (I was a heavy reverse splitter and thus ended up with very little scholarship 0L.)

Ah, respectable strategy. I would've done the same thing, but I felt it'd be weird and disingenuous to get rec letters with 0 intention of actually transferring. But since it sounds like you have some actual schools on your radar that you'd transfer to that shouldn't be an issue.

[queenlizzie13]

That's absolutely the truth. I realize there is still work to be done. I think I have decided against Chicago- my wife may just die if we had to spend two years in that kind of cold! I'm going to put in the paperwork for GULC EA as a start, but definitely have some high hopes for spring!

Good luck. Top 15% is not a bad place to be at all, especially with a science degree focusing on IP.

I'm gonna step in just to ask why you would want to transfer from GW to GULC? Isn't GULC's class size like 200 more than GW's and being top 10% at GW might be more advantageous than transferring to GULC

Didn't want to broadcast this, but I have almost no intention of transferring to GUCL. I'm applying because they have EA and I want to leverage GW into giving me some more $$. (I was a heavy reverse splitter and thus ended up with very little scholarship 0L.)

Was in similar position (no scholarship money 1L) - did well and asked for $. Did not work, but I didn't apply to transfer either. So hopefully it will go better for you and definitely leverage if possible. But I know last year they didn't fight very hard to keep people from transferring. Instead they just brought in a relatively large transfer class.