24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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BAK123
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24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby BAK123 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:04 am

I attend a local school. Finished in the top 10%. Have received ~10 callbacks from (rankwise; not necessarily including) Watchell through Akin Gump. A good portion of the interviewers were alumni, who seemed genuinely excited about bringing more people on from my current school and thought I could make it through. Am not on any journals or reviews but have a great fall internship, for what it's worth, that's not tied to my current school but that was made possible by a great professor at current school. Georgetown has been my dream school since high school and I was an emotional mess this entire summer as I waited for them to get back to me. I think (or, know) that the experience at Georgetown will make me better but I can't tell if I'm tying too much to the brand of just attending a T-14.

If I decided to attend Georgetown, I believe that it will make some difference in my practice. I believe people won't question my credentials as much. But, I'm deeply unsure if throwing all that I have going for me at my current school for "brand," "prestige," "better training" is even advisable at this point when I'll no doubt incur more debt and, very possibly, not perform as well as I have thus far.

I believe that if I stay at my current school I could be valedictorian. If I attend Georgetown, I know it would be a huge accomplishment to be in the top 10-15 percent.

So, help. Please.

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Pathika
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby Pathika » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:21 am

Obvious troll is... obvious. First, it is URGENT, not urgent. Second, Getting an interview from WACHTELL (not Watchtell) from outside of the T-6 is nearly impossible, surely not conceivable from a non-T14.

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sunynp
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby sunynp » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:29 am

What is your question exactly? What level school are you transferring from? How much will it cost? Do you have any offers?
Short answer- if you have an offer for your SA - stay where you are and be valedictorian.

Haven't you already missed GULC OCi? So what would your job search approach be?

BAK123
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby BAK123 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:55 am

Pathika wrote:Obvious troll is... obvious. First, it is URGENT, not urgent. Second, Getting an interview from WACHTELL (not Watchtell) from outside of the T-6 is nearly impossible, surely not conceivable from a non-T14.


I'm not trolling. I did misspell Wachtell and I purposely misspelled "urgent" as "urgnet." There was a thread sometime ago where a poster unintentionally wrote "urgnet." I and a few others found it funny because the misspelling of urgent and the sound of urgnet kind of speaks to a sense of urgency, in some weird way. But, explaining a joke is the least funny thing someone can do so nevermind. It suffices to say, it was an attempt at a joke. Fell flat.

Also, I didn't say that I had an interview with Wachtell. I said I have ~10 interviews from firms ranked close to Wachtell and above Akin Gump. I genuinely have no reason to lie about this. I don't find trolling funny, anyways. TLS has been a great resource for me and as the hours dwindle down towards a life-altering decision, just wanted to hear some insight.

buddingjd
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby buddingjd » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:59 am

You should probably seek input from the firms that have offered you callbacks, not the prestige-whoring masses of TLS that will yell at you to "transfer up" nomatter what.

BAK123
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby BAK123 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:59 am

sunynp wrote:What is your question exactly? What level school are you transferring from? How much will it cost? Do you have any offers?
Short answer- if you have an offer for your SA - stay where you are and be valedictorian.

Haven't you already missed GULC OCi? So what would your job search approach be?


My question is: Stay or Leave, as DMB says. I would be transferring from a T3. As dumb as an answer as this is, I haven't done the math yet for how much it will cost. I found out yesterday and will be doing the numbers today. But, I'm still conflicted because even if Mitt Romney offered me $200K to go to Georgetown, debt-free, I'm unsure if I'd go. My point is, I have a lot going for me at my current school. Is leaving for the name of Georgetown on my resume worth it?

I have no offers because I haven't been on any of the callbacks yet. They all start next week and go till the beginning of September.

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sunynp
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby sunynp » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:32 am

Post the numbers when you get them. This is a tough call. I would guess that transferring isn't going to hurt you with the firms you already have callbacks from? If anything, it might help them decide they made the right call by calling you back. Please post the numbers when it comes to cost.

You might do better at GULC then you think. But in general just going for the name of Georgetown may not be worth it in and of itself. There is more than that going on here.
Last edited by sunynp on Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:32 am

OP, it is a risk either way. The fact that you already have interviews with your current school/grades lends credibility to the argument that you should stay. If you choose to stay, I would recommend mass mailing every employer in the market of your school (most likely DC) and any secondary market that you have ties to - don't sit on your hands while believing that the interviews that you currently have are enough to prevent you from striking out.

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jessuf
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby jessuf » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:02 am

if you're top 10% now, how exactly do you expect to be valedictorian?

Did you get these 10 interviews through mass mailing?

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quiver
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby quiver » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:21 pm

Career goals?

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IAFG
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby IAFG » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:30 pm

I wouldn't transfer. You already scored your CBs and clearly your school didn't hold you back. (Assuming great scholarship.)

keg411
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby keg411 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:45 pm

IAFG wrote:I wouldn't transfer. You already scored your CBs and clearly your school didn't hold you back. (Assuming great scholarship.)


Agree with this.

aca0260
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby aca0260 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:35 pm

You have 10 callbacks or interviews? 10 callbacks being Top 10% from a TTT is unreal. You can pretty much do whatever you want. Stay. Go. Try out for the skins. whatever.

BAK123
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby BAK123 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:35 pm

I think I'm going to try out for the 'skins, actually. I don't have much faith in RG3.

That aside: I honestly think I'm not done with school. Not sure if this adds to you all's analysis but I've been considering going for either a MBA or MPP or doing them jointly after law school. Specifically, HKS kind of just excites me. I'd love to spend a couple years pursuing that. For some people, that might push them more towards saying to go to Georgetown. But, if I attend Georgetown, I'll be saddled with a bunch more debt and although I'd have a more prestigious JD (admin boost?) I'd also be less likely to take on even more debt if I had an offer from a great firm.

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3|ink
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby 3|ink » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:59 pm

I'd transfer.

09042014
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby 09042014 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:19 pm

Transferring is more TTT than going to a TTT. Have some pride. Stay, you got the job search done already.

mdfreeman
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby mdfreeman » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:54 pm

Yah your job search is done and you already have 10 CBs from your old school. Stay, there's no reason to leave now.

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jrthor10
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby jrthor10 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:59 pm

Depends on what your eventual goal is. Pretstige is important in some circles and at some levels.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby somewhatwayward » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:06 pm

jrthor10 wrote:Depends on what your eventual goal is. Pretstige is important in some circles and at some levels.


yeah, but it is not like georgetown is HYS or even CCNMVPB in terms of prestige. since you've basically got post-grad employment wrapped up and you have no debt, i'd stay where you are. gun even harder this year and get your grades up and try for an A3 clerkship if you want to add prestige to your resume.

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manofjustice
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby manofjustice » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:42 pm

IAFG wrote:I wouldn't transfer. You already scored your CBs and clearly your school didn't hold you back. (Assuming great scholarship.)


I agree with IAFG (as much as it pains me).

I mean, let's take your hypo head on: you think you could be valedictorian? Valedictorian in the T20 is gold, no matter how you cut it. Solid gold. Valedictorian in the T20 is better than pretty much anything in the T14 except valedictorian in the T14.

If you really did get a callback from Wachtell, I feel like you need to be slapped for thinking your grass could be greener anywhere else.

If you want some rationalization to hang your hat on, I was just talking to a V50 partner the other day, and he mentioned how the most successful partners at his firm come from all sorts of schools, some that some of us have never even heard of. The bottom-line value of your school brand will decrease as you get further in your career; it matters most at the beginning of your career; and the beginning of your career is going about as well as it could for anybody from any school.

You know, hiring partners aren't as dumb as we tend to assume. They get it. They DO read your resume beyond its first line. In general, people go to T6-T14s, it seems to me, because they are quite unsure what their resume will say in a year, and they want it to at least say they got into a T14. You, on the other hand, have the important other parts of your resume materialized, and I would see the value in the T14, ESPECIALLY AFTER COST (we are assuming you have a scholly, and if you don't, get one from your school now (word from several sources is it is working this cycle), decrease substantially.

Yea, even if you do have a scholly, go back and get it upped. Think about it this way. If you go to Wachtell, and your name shows up on Wachtell's website along with your school, that is brand prestige for your school, and they will pay (you) for it.

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fatduck
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby fatduck » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:44 pm

i think it's been more than 24 hours, guys

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hichvichwoh
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby hichvichwoh » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:48 pm

manofjustice wrote:
IAFG wrote:I wouldn't transfer. You already scored your CBs and clearly your school didn't hold you back. (Assuming great scholarship.)


I agree with IAFG (as much as it pains me).

I mean, let's take your hypo head on: you think you could be valedictorian? Valedictorian in the T20 is gold, no matter how you cut it. Solid gold. Valedictorian in the T20 is better than pretty much anything in the T14 except valedictorian in the T14.

If you really did get a callback from Wachtell, I feel like you need to be slapped for thinking your grass could be greener anywhere else.

If you want some rationalization to hang your hat on, I was just talking to a V50 partner the other day, and he mentioned how the most successful partners at his firm come from all sorts of schools, some that some of us have never even heard of. The bottom-line value of your school brand will decrease as you get further in your career; it matters most at the beginning of your career; and the beginning of your career is going about as well as it could for anybody from any school.

You know, hiring partners aren't as dumb as we tend to assume. They get it. They DO read your resume beyond its first line. In general, people go to T6-T14s, it seems to me, because they are quite unsure what their resume will say in a year, and they want it to at least say they got into a T14. You, on the other hand, have the important other parts of your resume materialized, and I would see the value in the T14, ESPECIALLY AFTER COST (we are assuming you have a scholly, and if you don't, get one from your school now (word from several sources is it is working this cycle), decrease substantially.

Yea, even if you do have a scholly, go back and get it upped. Think about it this way. If you go to Wachtell, and your name shows up on Wachtell's website along with your school, that is brand prestige for your school, and they will pay (you) for it.


Any of the partners at his firm entered a legal market vastly different from the one graduates face today. The insight that "partners today come from all sorts of schools" is almost meaningless when a substantial portion of students graduating from some of the aforementioned schools have basically no hope of landing a JD-job, and a worse chance of landing another job than when they started LS.

That said, T20 is hardly "a school we've never heard of," and in your situation the other advice not to transfer is pretty solid. Just a word of warning not to apply the same standards to your education that the previous generation might have applied to theirs.

BAK123
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby BAK123 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:30 pm

Let me say this at the outset.

I absolutely love TLS. I don't know. I think the whole lot of you (aside from the occasional trolls) are some of the most insightful people I've come across on a given subject matter. TLS has created this awesome resource for people struggling with major life decisions and I can't thank you enough for the insight that you've all shared with me.

That being said, I've decided to stay at my current school. I reached out to a ton of people and someone told me that I shouldn't be guided by fear. I think they meant that the fear of not performing as well at Georgetown or the fear of losing what I had achieved at my current school shouldn't deter me from making the jump. I ended up agreeing with the principle (i.e. not being led by fear) but disagreeing with its application. That is, what I feared most wasn't losing the callbacks that I had received (a good number of the callbacks [now at 13] were from people who didn't attend Georgetown and, in fact, some did attend Georgetown so maybe attending their school would have been a slight boost in their eyes) nor did I fear losing the relationships I had established at my current school: the people at my current school are just amazing people that genuinely support you so long as you do what you think is best for you.

What I feared most was the thought of what would happen if I didn't attend Georgetown. I'm not interested in academia but it seems like if you don't attend a T-14, at the very least, you're not going to be too successful at getting a teaching gig. Wouldn't attend Georgetown on the delusional hope of getting a SCOTUS clerkship but it seems like that's just not happening unless you went to a top law school or are conservative and bright enough for Thomas. In this entire law school process, we, on TLS, have just been completely bombarded with "if you don't attend a T-14, you can't do X" and even though I might have no aspiration for X, the thought of foreclosing opportunities just really scared me.

But, when I put that fear aside, I realized how much I loved my current law school and how much its put me in a position to do well. In a somewhat corny sense, I kind of do believe in the old adage of dancing with the person that brought you and maybe hope that by staying and doing well in life, I can give back by contributing to its own prestige.

Whether I had attended Georgetown or remain at my current law school, I ultimately do plan on applying to HKS for an MPP. I'm sure having a better degree on the resume would be a boost in admission but I can only hope now that doing extremely well at my current school will be looked upon as favorably. Thoughts on this are definitely appreciated.

Anyway, thanks, guys. Your advice and encouragement (and absolute lack of trolling in this thread) have genuinely made a difference in the life of a person. It happens all the time around TLS but I'm grateful it has happened to me.

BAK123
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby BAK123 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:31 pm

Also, just in case this wildly swings someone's opinion, it wasn't a T20 that I stayed at. It's a TTT in D.C.

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IAFG
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Re: 24 Hours To Decide on GULC. I believe this is "URGNET".

Postby IAFG » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:46 pm

I think you made the right choice, of course (as did most people advising you ITT). Good luck with your interviews!




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