Urgent Poll

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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201
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Urgent Poll

Postby 201 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:12 pm

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Last edited by 201 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dixon02
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby dixon02 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:17 pm

What's the money situation at these schools?

justright157
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby justright157 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:18 pm

You dont need anyones opinion on here... I think u know what u want to do

201
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby 201 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:19 pm

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Last edited by 201 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby somewhatwayward » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:12 pm

you should definitely go to michigan. michigan OCI is very good to transfers. you're paying the same amount, so why not go to a better school? also, COL may be lower in ann arbor. if you can pull good grades at Michigan, you will have a much better shot at prestigious clerkships. i think this is clear cut.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:47 pm

GWU with law review & a top 16% to 20% ranking is a solid option.

P.S. Ask GWU for scholarship money.

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IAFG
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby IAFG » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:53 pm

I honestly can't imagine staying with NO money.

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Certiorari
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby Certiorari » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:56 pm

At first I voted Michigan, but then I thought about it a bit more and went to Michigan's website and NU's website, and I'm changing my vote to stay put (I'd change it up top, but you didn't enable the feature that allows people to change votes). If you don't stay put, go to NU. If you are really interested in a federal clerkship, Journal/Review is a big plus, and if you go to Michigan, that isn't going to happen. I checked out their website, and Michigan has already done their transfer write-on competition, so you'd be SOL if you went there. NU does their competition in the fall, so you'd have a chance to write-on there.

All in all, going from 20 to 12, when you're already in a city you like, and since you're already on law review at GW, and since you said you'd prefer Michigan to NU, I'd stay put. GW + journal is probably better for getting some kind of federal clerkship than Michigan w/o journal.

concurrent fork
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby concurrent fork » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:25 pm

Given your happiness and stats at your current school, I think it's a wash. I would probably stay.

Also, there's no evidence that transferring improves A3 clerkship prospects.

mdfreeman
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby mdfreeman » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:23 pm

concurrent fork wrote:Given your happiness and stats at your current school, I think it's a wash. I would probably stay.

Also, there's no evidence that transferring improves A3 clerkship prospects.


Eh, I call mild bullshit. I don't think it vastly improves your clerkship prospects. However, I'm going from a school that put 3 people into A3 clerkships to a school that puts about 15% of their class into A3 clerkships.

Way I see it, transferring can't turn no clerkship into clerkship status but it can certainly make it easier.



Also to OP, if you want to stay in DC, stay at GW. If you want to go elsewhere, go to Michigan.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby Lawquacious » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:26 pm

Transfer.

anewaphorist
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby anewaphorist » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:29 pm

Terrible thread title.

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sunynp
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby sunynp » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:30 pm

Lawquacious wrote:Transfer.

Danteshek
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby Danteshek » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:32 pm

You're not doing well enough at GW to make it worth it to stay. Transfer.

concurrent fork
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby concurrent fork » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:43 am

mdfreeman wrote:
concurrent fork wrote:Given your happiness and stats at your current school, I think it's a wash. I would probably stay.

Also, there's no evidence that transferring improves A3 clerkship prospects.


Eh, I call mild bullshit. I don't think it vastly improves your clerkship prospects. However, I'm going from a school that put 3 people into A3 clerkships to a school that puts about 15% of their class into A3 clerkships.

Way I see it, transferring can't turn no clerkship into clerkship status but it can certainly make it easier.



Also to OP, if you want to stay in DC, stay at GW. If you want to go elsewhere, go to Michigan.

So you call bullshit on lack of evidence, citing personal opinion? Cool.

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quiver
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby quiver » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:54 am

concurrent fork wrote:
mdfreeman wrote:
concurrent fork wrote:Given your happiness and stats at your current school, I think it's a wash. I would probably stay.

Also, there's no evidence that transferring improves A3 clerkship prospects.


Eh, I call mild bullshit. I don't think it vastly improves your clerkship prospects. However, I'm going from a school that put 3 people into A3 clerkships to a school that puts about 15% of their class into A3 clerkships.

Way I see it, transferring can't turn no clerkship into clerkship status but it can certainly make it easier.



Also to OP, if you want to stay in DC, stay at GW. If you want to go elsewhere, go to Michigan.

So you call bullshit on lack of evidence, citing personal opinion? Cool.
I usually agree with concurrent fork but I'm going to beg to differ on this one. I've talked to several east coast district judges who have said that they only look at applications from YSHCNP. Just being outside their school range means you have no shot with those particular judges. At least if you transfer to a T14 school you're maximizing your chances at a clerkship by not getting your app trashed by some judges. Does transferring significantly improve your chances at an AIII clerkship? No. But they're tough to get from everywhere so any improvement in your chances will not be significant anyway. My evidence is anecdotal, but after talking with previous transfers (now clerks), judges, and former clerks, transferring can certainly improve one's odds at a fed clerkship (depending on the situation).

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MormonChristian
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby MormonChristian » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:16 am

Tough call, but I say Michigan.

concurrent fork
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby concurrent fork » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:36 am

quiver wrote:My evidence is anecdotal, but after talking with previous transfers (now clerks), judges, and former clerks, transferring can certainly improve one's odds at a fed clerkship (depending on the situation).

I definitely agree that it can. My anecdotal evidence goes both ways. But unlike OCI results (where enough data has been shared to show, for ex, that HYSCCN transfers virtually all get biglaw if desired), we have no idea how many transfers are represented in the A3 placement at these schools. Given this uncertainty I don't think it should be something that pushes you to transfer -- especially if, like OP, you're on the fence between a T20 w/LR and a lower T14 w/nothing.

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quiver
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby quiver » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:21 am

concurrent fork wrote:
quiver wrote:My evidence is anecdotal, but after talking with previous transfers (now clerks), judges, and former clerks, transferring can certainly improve one's odds at a fed clerkship (depending on the situation).

I definitely agree that it can. My anecdotal evidence goes both ways. But unlike OCI results (where enough data has been shared to show, for ex, that HYSCCN transfers virtually all get biglaw if desired), we have no idea how many transfers are represented in the A3 placement at these schools. Given this uncertainty I don't think it should be something that pushes you to transfer -- especially if, like OP, you're on the fence between a T20 w/LR and a lower T14 w/nothing.
Ah yes, ok. I think it's very fact specific; transferring from T2 to CCN for fed clerkships is different than going from GW (w/ LR) to lower T14. Tough call here. While OP does have LR, s/he is only in the top 20% which is not the best position for AIII clerkships (although maybe sufficient for district courts).

If it were me, I would probably transfer. OP is paying sticking whether s/he stays or goes and district court judges/SSC judges care less about LR than fed COA judges (which OP is not aiming for). Being at Mich/NW may also help at OCI by providing access to more NY firms, which have the largest summer classes by far (and OP said s/he would be fine working in NY). If Op had a scholarship at GW it would be an even tougher decision, but I say transfer.

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sunynp
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby sunynp » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:44 am

quiver wrote:
concurrent fork wrote:
quiver wrote:My evidence is anecdotal, but after talking with previous transfers (now clerks), judges, and former clerks, transferring can certainly improve one's odds at a fed clerkship (depending on the situation).

I definitely agree that it can. My anecdotal evidence goes both ways. But unlike OCI results (where enough data has been shared to show, for ex, that HYSCCN transfers virtually all get biglaw if desired), we have no idea how many transfers are represented in the A3 placement at these schools. Given this uncertainty I don't think it should be something that pushes you to transfer -- especially if, like OP, you're on the fence between a T20 w/LR and a lower T14 w/nothing.
Ah yes, ok. I think it's very fact specific; transferring from T2 to CCN for fed clerkships is different than going from GW (w/ LR) to lower T14. Tough call here. While OP does have LR, s/he is only in the top 20% which is not the best position for AIII clerkships (although maybe sufficient for district courts).

If it were me, I would probably transfer. OP is paying sticking whether s/he stays or goes and district court judges/SSC judges care less about LR than fed COA judges (which OP is not aiming for). Being at Mich/NW may also help at OCI by providing access to more NY firms, which have the largest summer classes by far (and OP said s/he would be fine working in NY). If Op had a scholarship at GW it would be an even tougher decision, but I say transfer.


Agree. GW is too huge and not worth sticker, OP should transfer and get a better job.

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top30man
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby top30man » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:01 pm

sunynp wrote:
Lawquacious wrote:Transfer.

transferquestion123
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby transferquestion123 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:19 pm

so you're getting a lot of conventional TLS "higher ranked is always better" noise here, but as a current Michigan student considering transferring out for greener pastures myself, I think you should listen to the people arguing LR makes more difference for clerkships than does moving from a T20 to a lower (non-T6) T14. The judges considering you for a clerkship are gonna know you're a top-20% GW kid regardless of where you transfer - you can't erase that - and you are giving up LR, which they do care about. That said, quiver made some solid points, and if it really is true district judges don't care as much about LR (which I can't confirm and hadn't heard before), I could see giving up LR to make the jump. Less bluebooking for you anyway right?
Last edited by transferquestion123 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sunynp
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby sunynp » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:21 pm

transferquestion123 wrote:so you're getting a lot of conventional TLS "higher ranked is always better" noise here, but as a current Michigan student considering transferring out for greener pastures myself, I think you should listen to the people arguing LR makes more difference for clerkships than does moving from T20 to a lower (non-T6) T14. The judges considering you for a clerkship are gonna know you're a top-20% GW kid regardless of where you transfer - you can't erase that - and you are giving up LR, which they do care about.


I don't think higher ranked is always better. I think that GW is not worth sticker even if you are on law review. :)

Good luck OP, you are in a good position.

transferquestion123
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby transferquestion123 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:25 pm

sunynp wrote:I don't think higher ranked is always better. I think that GW is not worth sticker even if you are on law review. :)

Good luck OP, you are in a good position.

+1

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Lawquacious
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Re: Urgent Poll

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:31 pm

transferquestion123 wrote:so you're getting a lot of conventional TLS "higher ranked is always better" noise here, but as a current Michigan student considering transferring out for greener pastures myself, I think you should listen to the people arguing LR makes more difference for clerkships than does moving from a T20 to a lower (non-T6) T14. The judges considering you for a clerkship are gonna know you're a top-20% GW kid regardless of where you transfer - you can't erase that - and you are giving up LR, which they do care about. That said, quiver made some solid points, and if it really is true district judges don't care as much about LR (which I can't confirm and hadn't heard before), I could see giving up LR to make the jump. Less bluebooking for you anyway right?



No one said higher is always better, but OP doesn't have money at GW and OP has the option of going to a school that is a considerable degree better than GW at the same (or less) cost.

Also, your point that prospective employers/judges will see OP's 1L stats--including the invitation to law review, as OP can put "invited" on resume--can be used to argue for the move just as much as against it.




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