Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

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CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:21 pm

Questions:
If OP transferred to NYU, wouldn't OP have a chance to write-on NYU's law review?

Wouldn't OP's Cornell grades & top 10% standing be seen/available to employers during NYU's OCI ?

I understand that OP would lose a $25,000 scholarship at Cornell, however.

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rayiner
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby rayiner » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:24 pm

Is it $25k/year?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:38 pm

OP wrote: "I am currently getting 25K from Cornell."

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:41 pm

OP's primary concern was that he/she entirely missed the law review write-on competition at Cornell & how that would look to major NYC biglaw firms. Other posters suggest that it won't matter and OP is assured of NYC biglaw due to his/her top 10% standing at Cornell. I think that OP should consider NYU transfer offer for the chance to write-on to the NYU law review. As is, OP will compete with other top 10% students from T-14 law schools who also have law review. OP will still benefit from his/her top 10% standing after one year at Cornell as employers should see that on his/her resume & grades from OP's Cornell transcript even if OP transfers to NYU or Columbia.

@Rayiner: In your opinion, how important is law review to NYC biglaw ?

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rayiner
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby rayiner » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:18 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:@Rayiner: In your opinion, how important is law review to NYC biglaw ?


I don't think law review is very important to NYC big law. It's a nice soft factor for litigation, and completely irrelevant for corporate. It's much more important for DC big law and clerkships. The possibility of LR isn't worth $25k or $50k (I'm not sure which one OP means). That's an extra $300 or $600 a month in OP's pocket each year.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:28 pm

OP wants NYC biglaw litigation. OP wrote: "I want litigation 100%."

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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby dixon02 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:47 pm

I echo what rayiner said earlier: if you're going to transfer from top 10% at Cornell, it's HYS or bust. At top 10% from Cornell, your career prospects will come down to how well you interview. No journal is a small negative, but it will only matter if you don't interview well. Transferring to NYU wouldn't be worth it even without the scholarship; factor that in plus COL, there's just no way this is a good decision.

whoacornell
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby whoacornell » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:10 pm

Sorry for the long delay in responding. Long few days at work.

I am currently getting $25k per year. For a frame of reference, that will come out to roughly $600 extra in each monthly. Hence my hesitancy to leave when that $600 can be used to pay down principal if I stay.

I did apply to Harvard but have not heard back. Considering that a ding. I expect this becuse my transcript shows nearly all A- grades. A few A+ pull my GPA up to where it is. But with those A+ did not come any CALI awards. So that I believe will keep me from Harvard.

So I am leaning towards eliminating NYU completely and awaiting Columbia's response before deciding. So is Columbia worth the extra $600 per month for 10 years? Pretty sure this answer is no for someone in my spot.

And for reference, I have been told that I interview well in prior jobs and Cornell's mock interview program. As well, with Big Law partners with who I have spoke said I am personable, for what that is worth

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rayiner
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby rayiner » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:20 pm

You'll get literally no benefit from transferring to Columbia. Any firm you might want to interview with will interview at Cornell too, and will treat you identically as they would have treated you at Cornell. It's not even worth the moving expenses, much less giving up connections with professors, your GPA, etc.

If you want litigation, and can get your grades up to top 5% by next year, you've got an outside shot at COA even without LR. You're in good shape for district court. Your faculty connections will be very helpful for both, and you'd be giving those up to be a faceless transfer in Columbia's 400+ student class.

attractive_NUisance
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby attractive_NUisance » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:26 pm

Agree very little benefit to this with the money at Cornell. Unless you value the brand for your resume at least at $50K now (plus additional $25K total in higher living expenses).

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:26 pm

Plus a shot at writing on to NYU's law review.


A couple of years ago I spoke with two NYC based legal recruiters/headhunters. At that time they wrote that their largest NYC based clients requested candidates with law degrees from specific law schools. The list included Harvard & Columbia and a few others ( can't recall the other two, but it may have been Penn & NYU. Yale, of course, is a given). Not sure if this is still true. Might be worthwhile to call a couple of NYC legal recruiters & ask since you are also likely to be admitted to Columbia as a transfer.

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quiver
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby quiver » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:54 am

rayiner wrote:You'll get literally no benefit from transferring to Columbia. Any firm you might want to interview with will interview at Cornell too, and will treat you identically as they would have treated you at Cornell. It's not even worth the moving expenses, much less giving up connections with professors, your GPA, etc.

If you want litigation, and can get your grades up to top 5% by next year, you've got an outside shot at COA even without LR. You're in good shape for district court. Your faculty connections will be very helpful for both, and you'd be giving those up to be a faceless transfer in Columbia's 400+ student class.
I wouldn't go so far as to say there is no benefit, but I certainly don't think there's enough benefit in your case to transfer. Agree with everything else rayiner said.

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rayiner
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:58 am

quiver wrote:
rayiner wrote:You'll get literally no benefit from transferring to Columbia. Any firm you might want to interview with will interview at Cornell too, and will treat you identically as they would have treated you at Cornell. It's not even worth the moving expenses, much less giving up connections with professors, your GPA, etc.

If you want litigation, and can get your grades up to top 5% by next year, you've got an outside shot at COA even without LR. You're in good shape for district court. Your faculty connections will be very helpful for both, and you'd be giving those up to be a faceless transfer in Columbia's 400+ student class.
I wouldn't go so far as to say there is no benefit, but I certainly don't think there's enough benefit in your case to transfer. Agree with everything else rayiner said.

There is no reason for a firm that recruits at Cornell to treat him any differently than they would at Cornell. Maybe he'll get more interviews for Columbia's larger OCI.

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quiver
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby quiver » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:32 am

rayiner wrote:
quiver wrote:
rayiner wrote:You'll get literally no benefit from transferring to Columbia. Any firm you might want to interview with will interview at Cornell too, and will treat you identically as they would have treated you at Cornell. It's not even worth the moving expenses, much less giving up connections with professors, your GPA, etc.

If you want litigation, and can get your grades up to top 5% by next year, you've got an outside shot at COA even without LR. You're in good shape for district court. Your faculty connections will be very helpful for both, and you'd be giving those up to be a faceless transfer in Columbia's 400+ student class.
I wouldn't go so far as to say there is no benefit, but I certainly don't think there's enough benefit in your case to transfer. Agree with everything else rayiner said.

There is no reason for a firm that recruits at Cornell to treat him any differently than they would at Cornell. Maybe he'll get more interviews for Columbia's larger OCI.
There are benefits outside of OCI too.

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rayiner
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:34 am

quiver wrote:There are benefits outside of OCI too.


Better clerkship placement? Not for a transfer with no LR.

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PinkCow
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby PinkCow » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:44 am

N/A
Last edited by PinkCow on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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quiver
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby quiver » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:52 am

rayiner wrote:
quiver wrote:There are benefits outside of OCI too.


Better clerkship placement? Not for a transfer with no LR.
That's not necissarily true. And besides employment stats, being in NYC has certain advantages (networking with alumni, classes taught by top-level adjuncts (which also may provide connections), events with amazing guest speakers every week, etc.). Obviously employment is the most important concern but the ability to network in NYC (OP's preferred market) might mitigate this a little. I said I agreed with everything else you said but I just wanted to point out that there are some benefits to transferring even if employment prospects won't change all that much. In OP's case, because employment probably won't be significantly affected, I don't think those benfits nearly outweigh the 25k/year scholarship s/he has at Cornell.

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quiver
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby quiver » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:56 am

PinkCow wrote:Sorry to leech this thread, but similar position as OP, but I got into Harvard.
-I also got Law Review at Cornell.
-Interested in clerking and litigation.
-No journal at HYS. Can come onto secondaries.
-No real $ at Cornell. Predicting Harvard will be quite a bit cheaper because of need-based aid.

Tough decision because of the LR and the fact that H will be cheaper. I would probably transfer to H in this situation but it is a close call. Only you can weigh these factors.

whoacornell
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby whoacornell » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:05 am

PinkCow wrote:
rayiner wrote:
quiver wrote:There are benefits outside of OCI too.


Better clerkship placement? Not for a transfer with no LR.


Sorry to leech this thread, but similar position as OP, but I got into Harvard.
-I also got Law Review at Cornell.
-Interested in clerking and litigation.
-No journal at HYS. Can come onto secondaries.
-No real $ at Cornell. Predicting Harvard will be quite a bit cheaper because of need-based aid.


Objectively, I would go if I were you as Harvard is rather generous and the name follows you forever.

Selfishly, I want you to stay. I'm hoping a Cornell admit to Harvard says no thanks and I'm next on the list. I'd go in a heart beat

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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby Arbiter213 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:17 am

ajaxconstructions wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:OP: You are a likely transfer admit to Columbia. If accepted, go.

If you remain at Cornell & are asked about LR, you risk being viewed as a wimp or a flake. Focus on the scholarship. As I wrote above, you risk losing out to other T-14 candidates with top 10% & law review.

Sure you can get NYC biglaw with your current class rank at Cornell, but you might lose out on some when competing with other top 10% & LR.

Did you apply to Harvard ?

P.S. Just looked at a few of ajaxconstructions earlier posts. Apparently ajax is a Cornell law student in the top 20% who decided not to do the write-on for Cornell's law review. Odd that ajax would now play dumb by suggesting that Cornell's law review is limited to the top 8% grade-ons.


I actually made LR, thanks though.


Odd since you said you didn't do the competition

People ITT are severely underestimating the importance of being on ANY journal. If OP doesn't get work on (for whatever reason- it's not a guarantee, though I can't imagine missing it) he's fucked.

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rayiner
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:03 am

PinkCow wrote:
rayiner wrote:
quiver wrote:There are benefits outside of OCI too.


Better clerkship placement? Not for a transfer with no LR.


Sorry to leech this thread, but similar position as OP, but I got into Harvard.
-I also got Law Review at Cornell.
-Interested in clerking and litigation.
-No journal at HYS. Can come onto secondaries.
-No real $ at Cornell. Predicting Harvard will be quite a bit cheaper because of need-based aid.


How similar? By top 10% might you be closer to top 5%? How are your relationships with your professors?

If you're interested in clerking, I'd stay. Think about the clerkship hiring cycle now that the plan is dead: you'd be applying to COA judges with only one semester of grades at H and no LR, and whatever professor relationships you can cobble together in that time frame. Meanwhile, if you stay at Cornell you can use next semester to get yourself closer to top 5%, have law review on your resume, maybe get something published, and have professors willing to make calls for you. This is a much better position to be in.

I'm as big of a prestige-whore as anyone, but you gotta play this smart. Without LR I might transfer for H, but on the clerkship scene it's too valuable a credential to give up for undefined future prestige. And let's face it, you're H prestige is somewhat compromised by being a transfer, so don't give it overmuch weight.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:11 am

The poster accepted to Harvard from Cornell with law review & no scholarship but expecting significant financial aid from Harvard should start his/her own thread. Different issues merit different considerations.

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quiver
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby quiver » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:14 am

rayiner wrote:
PinkCow wrote:
rayiner wrote:
quiver wrote:There are benefits outside of OCI too.


Better clerkship placement? Not for a transfer with no LR.


Sorry to leech this thread, but similar position as OP, but I got into Harvard.
-I also got Law Review at Cornell.
-Interested in clerking and litigation.
-No journal at HYS. Can come onto secondaries.
-No real $ at Cornell. Predicting Harvard will be quite a bit cheaper because of need-based aid.


How similar? By top 10% might you be closer to top 5%? How are your relationships with your professors?

If you're interested in clerking, I'd stay. Think about the clerkship hiring cycle now that the plan is dead: you'd be applying to COA judges with only one semester of grades at H and no LR, and whatever professor relationships you can cobble together in that time frame. Meanwhile, if you stay at Cornell you can use next semester to get yourself closer to top 5%, have law review on your resume, maybe get something published, and have professors willing to make calls for you. This is a much better position to be in.

I'm as big of a prestige-whore as anyone, but you gotta play this smart. Without LR I might transfer for H, but on the clerkship scene it's too valuable a credential to give up for undefined future prestige. And let's face it, you're H prestige is somewhat compromised by being a transfer, so don't give it overmuch weight.
Yeah I have a few different thoughts about this. First, rayiner is completely correct with most of his post, but it assumes that you're going for COA straight out of school. It seems that at least half of COA judges (probably closer to 60%) are still on plan anyway so that would give you a full year at H to make connections with professors. Obviously not ideal, but not bleak either. If you go for district courts first, almost all of them are still on plan so you would have the full year for those as well. Cost being equal, I'd probably side with rayiner and tell you to stay. But with H being quite a bit cheaper, I think I would lean toward going.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the work-clerk-work path is also becoming more common. That would give you two full years at H.
Last edited by quiver on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:18 am

@PinkCow: OP did not get on law review at Cornell.

Also @PinkCow: If targeting federal clerkship & COA placement, then law review becomes even more important as does increasing your class rank during your last two years & getting into the top 5% of your class.

PinkCow: Your situation should raise a very interesting discussion; you should start your own thread to avoid confusion & let OP enjoy his thread.

OP: You started this thread by stating that you applied to Penn, NYU & Columbia as a transfer applicant from Cornell; now you also claim that you applied to Harvard--is this correct ?

whoacornell
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Re: Top 10% exactly, 3.81 at Cornell to...

Postby whoacornell » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:35 am

Originally left out Harvard because acceptances when out last week. I didn't get one. Awaiting the inevitable ding which I was expecting.

In at Penn and NYU. Withdrawing from Penn as I prefer to be in nyc. Still waiting on columbia which is preferred to all but Harvard




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