Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only available to the creator of each thread. The anonymous posting feature is intended to permit the solicitation of anonymous advice regarding the transfer application process, chances of being accepted, etc. Unacceptable uses include: testing the feature, questions which are clearly fake or hypothetical in nature, harassing other users, etc. Posters should also read and understand the announcements posted at the top of the Transfers forum prior to using the anonymous feature.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.

Accept or Hold Out?

Accept
38
84%
Hold Out
7
16%
 
Total votes: 45

Xferr
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:24 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby Xferr » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:57 pm

lnllnl wrote:
Xferr wrote:Unfortunately, this thread has degenerated into 'Berkeley is great, totally go!'


Sounds like you want to chance it and hold out for HYC. After that post, is there any point for other people to suggest Berkeley? If that's the case, then just nut up and decline Berkeley.


No, I just want insight/info on the thought process you need to undergo to make this decision rather than opinions that clearly aren't thought out at all. "Nut up and decline" is equally useless.

Again, comparison is the between what's guaranteed in accepting Berkeley vs. whats guaranteed in declining (Georgetown) plus chance to get in elsewhere times their value. Penn, Georgetown, and Michigan are less than Berkeley to me (although Penn not by much), and Stanford/Columbia/Harvard are higher.

And yes, I'm waiting until the 11th. The question is what to do when the 11th comes around.

ctadash
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:34 am

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby ctadash » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:02 pm

thederangedwang wrote:
ctadash wrote:
jurisx wrote:I love how people say "Berkley" and not UOC.

It's the only place I know where people mention the campus location over the campus.

Are the other UOC locations really that much worse?


No. People mention Berkeley because there are so many other University of California campuses. If I told you I went to the University of California, the next question out of your mouth would be "Oh, which one?" To save your saliva, I would naturally tell you that I went to Berkeley from the get go.

i think the pt jurisx is making is that this isnt true for other places...for instance, theres a lot of University of Texas campuses..yet everybody thinks you go to UT Austin when you simply say texas, or UT...nobody thinks you go to UT el paso or arlington or pan am

Since Berk, like Austin, is the states flagship university, saying UoC should automatically refer to Berk. But for some reason it doesnt


Unlike Texas, UofC could also refer to LA, a school of equal caliber in the undergraduate realm. UT-Austin has to compete with places like Pan American which is just...

ctadash
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:34 am

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby ctadash » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:03 pm

Xferr wrote:
shock259 wrote:Given your numbers (T2 80s, Top 5%), I think you should take it. Barring some slam dunk soft that you aren't telling us, you outperformed your numbers by getting into Berkeley. I wouldn't chance getting lucky again with similarly ranked or higher ranked schools.


Read a little more carefully - my school doesn't calculate past top 5%. I'm probably rank 1.

Also, the Berkeley website says that the expectation is that you'll withdraw all other apps if you commit. That's the clear expectation, and accepting then reneging is not an option as I said. I'd like those suggestions to stop.

I already asked them about submitting a tentative commitment. They gave me an extension but ultimately you need to absolutely commit by a certain date. There's no false dilemma here - please stick to the options presented in the OP. I've already looked for the clever way out, and there doesn't appear to be any.

Unfortunately, this thread has degenerated into 'Berkeley is great, totally go!' and 'Just call it UC, not Berkeley.' Neither of these strings of comments helps me think about the choice any better. Oh well.


Please show me where it says they expect you to withdraw all other applications if you commit. I don't see that anywhere at all.

thederangedwang
Posts: 1124
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:44 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby thederangedwang » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:08 pm

ctadash wrote:
Unlike Texas, UofC could also refer to LA, a school of equal caliber in the undergraduate realm. UT-Austin has to compete with places like Pan American which is just...

though true, and UCLA is a good school, Berk is still the flagship univ of the UC system.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:15 pm

Berkeley, Madison, Boulder, State College (although the last one may have been instigated by an unnamed Ivy League school). :D

Xferr
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:24 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby Xferr » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:25 pm

ctadash wrote:
Xferr wrote:
shock259 wrote:Given your numbers (T2 80s, Top 5%), I think you should take it. Barring some slam dunk soft that you aren't telling us, you outperformed your numbers by getting into Berkeley. I wouldn't chance getting lucky again with similarly ranked or higher ranked schools.


Read a little more carefully - my school doesn't calculate past top 5%. I'm probably rank 1.

Also, the Berkeley website says that the expectation is that you'll withdraw all other apps if you commit. That's the clear expectation, and accepting then reneging is not an option as I said. I'd like those suggestions to stop.

I already asked them about submitting a tentative commitment. They gave me an extension but ultimately you need to absolutely commit by a certain date. There's no false dilemma here - please stick to the options presented in the OP. I've already looked for the clever way out, and there doesn't appear to be any.

Unfortunately, this thread has degenerated into 'Berkeley is great, totally go!' and 'Just call it UC, not Berkeley.' Neither of these strings of comments helps me think about the choice any better. Oh well.


Please show me where it says they expect you to withdraw all other applications if you commit. I don't see that anywhere at all.

Admitted students website: "If you accept our admission offer and declare your intent to enroll, we will presume that you will withdraw your applications at all other law schools and that you will not make a deposit nor submit a letter of intent at another school."

User avatar
Aberzombie1892
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:31 pm

thederangedwang wrote:
ctadash wrote:
Unlike Texas, UofC could also refer to LA, a school of equal caliber in the undergraduate realm. UT-Austin has to compete with places like Pan American which is just...

though true, and UCLA is a good school, Berk is still the flagship univ of the UC system.


UC-B and UCLA are widely considered to be the two best public universities in the United States. Even the UC system considers them both to be flagship institutions.

User avatar
Lawquacious
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:36 am

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:47 pm

Xferr wrote:I'd rather not reneg on the commitment. They expect you to withdraw all other apps - otherwise this wouldn't be an issue.



Seems kind of shady to me how they force you to commit when there is reason to believe you still have apps pending. I think other schools try to do this by choosing relatively early dates for a deposit (and obviously binding EA/ED programs sometimes work this way), but at least with a deposit you can just give up the money and still take the better school.

3L Student
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby 3L Student » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:07 pm

Don't decline Berkeley unless you're absolute sure that you'll get into one of the other schools. And You're NOT a lock in at Columbia. I had same numbers at a T80 and I was only accepted to ED GULC and Berkeley. I would suggest waiting until the last possible day, and then commit if you haven't heard back from the other schools.

ctadash
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:34 am

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby ctadash » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:46 pm

3L Student wrote:Don't decline Berkeley unless you're absolute sure that you'll get into one of the other schools. And You're NOT a lock in at Columbia. I had same numbers at a T80 and I was only accepted to ED GULC and Berkeley. I would suggest waiting until the last possible day, and then commit if you haven't heard back from the other schools.


And then what happens if you get accepted somewhere else? The letter sent be Berkeley does not have the same conditions as the website. It is their presumption that you will withdraw the other applications. It is not a requirement.

User avatar
TTTehehe
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:00 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby TTTehehe » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:47 pm

Xferr wrote:I'm trying to figure out whether I should accept Berkeley's offer of admission or gamble on the rest of my applications. I need to commit at Berkeley by the 11th, and I doubt I'll hear from anyone else by then.

Stats: T2 80s, 3.96 GPA, top 5% (highest the school calculates)
Career Goals: Up in the air right now, but I'd like to stay on the East Coast, probably New York City. Not sure if I want to go straight to biglaw or clerk first.
Applied/Waiting For: Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, NYU, Penn, Michigan.
Accepted: GULC, Berkeley.
Rejected: None yet.

I'd take Stanford, Harvard, and Columbia over Berkeley. I'd prefer Berkeley over NYU, Penn, and Michigan, but if I don't accept Berkeley I need to leave those apps in to increase my odds of getting into a good school. Please share any advice or insight you have on this decision. Thank you.


OP. You wanted people's thought process over their "useless" advice?

Your personal preferences are:

SHC

You are in at B

You'd rather go to B than NPM.

You don't know what you want to do, but you'd prefer to stay on the East Coast.

West Coast Schools:
S - no decision
B- In

Mid West Schools:
Mich - no decision

East Coast Schools:

H- no decision
C- no decision
Penn no decision
NYU - no decision

I conveniently struck out the rest because B is your new floor. I'm going to assume that your preferences are:

H
C
S
B

H and S are extremely hard to 1. predict, and 2. get into. That being said, you should assume that you will not get in.

The choices then should be between B and C.

Berkeley is a great school, a sure thing, but on the West Coast. C is a great school, not a sure thing, but where you'd prefer to live.

Only YOU can answer this question. However, if I were in your shoes, I would take a sure thing at Berkeley.

Why? Because it's a sure thing, a great school, a school MUCH better than a T2, and I don't want to be SOL by thinking that I'm going to be the American Dream - telling Berkeley 'no' and then being rejected by H,S, and C.

You are like a gambler in a casino. You got dealt a crap hand at first (T2), and now you're winning some nice money (Berkeley). Your mind is saying, but 'hey!, I can win some more!' (H,S,C). I will echo the sentiments that you so dislike. "Nut up and go to Berkeley." Walk away from the damn table and be happy that you are T14, and that it's from a great school. Berkeley will give you the clout to make it back East.

Enjoy.

Xferr
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:24 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby Xferr » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:59 pm

TTTehehe wrote:OP. You wanted people's thought process over their "useless" advice?


I want advice that's well thought out and can actually help me make my decision. So far that doesn't seem to be happening here.

TTTehehe wrote:Why? Because it's a sure thing, a great school, a school MUCH better than a T2, and I don't want to be SOL by thinking that I'm going to be the American Dream - telling Berkeley 'no' and then being rejected by H,S, and C.


Again, rejecting Berkeley puts me at GULC, not a T2. The difference between Berkeley and my old school is completely irrelevant.

TTTehehe wrote:You are like a gambler in a casino. You got dealt a crap hand at first (T2), and now you're winning some nice money (Berkeley). Your mind is saying, but 'hey!, I can win some more!' (H,S,C). I will echo the sentiments that you so dislike. "Nut up and go to Berkeley." Walk away from the damn table and be happy that you are T14, and that it's from a great school. Berkeley will give you the clout to make it back East.

Enjoy.


Again, I haven't decided one way or another. But you seem to have, and now you're being overly defensive.

I'm trying to evaluate the risk. That doesn't mean avoid risk at all costs. It also doesn't make me a compulsive gambler....

I don't think this thread is going to get me anywhere. Thanks to 3L Student for the useful info.

bruss
Posts: 470
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 3:58 am

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby bruss » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:11 pm

tl;dr: T2 wanting to go to H Lolz

3L Student
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby 3L Student » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:20 pm

ctadash wrote:
3L Student wrote:Don't decline Berkeley unless you're absolute sure that you'll get into one of the other schools. And You're NOT a lock in at Columbia. I had same numbers at a T80 and I was only accepted to ED GULC and Berkeley. I would suggest waiting until the last possible day, and then commit if you haven't heard back from the other schools.


And then what happens if you get accepted somewhere else? The letter sent be Berkeley does not have the same conditions as the website. It is their presumption that you will withdraw the other applications. It is not a requirement.



He would be stupid to decline Berkeley with NO other offers other than GULC. No matter what, he needs to accept at Berkeley by the deadline.

He could easily be out at Columbia, Stanford, and Harvard. No, in fact, he most likely WILL be out. He might have small shot at Columbia.

As I said above, I had the same numbers as him, and had I decided not to Accept at Berkeley I would have risked having no offers at all.

If he refuses to keep his applications open at the other schools, then his only real choice is to accept B and withdraw--if he chooses to withdraw from B he takes one of the biggest gambles of his life by waiting for an acceptance from HY or C.

But if he's cool with Accepting B and keeping all of the other applications open, then that's HIS choice. I'm just giving advice for what he should do if he doesn't feel right about accepting B and not withdrawing (he should accept if this is the case!)

User avatar
TatteredDignity
Posts: 1520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:06 am

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby TatteredDignity » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:21 pm

bruss wrote:tl;dr: T2 wanting to go to H Lolz


#4 at a T2 just got into H on Friday. Not that lulzy.

nleefer
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby nleefer » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:02 pm

I transferred into Berkeley a couple years ago ranked #2 at a low T2 school like you. My advice is to take the Berkeley acceptance and run.

You have basically no chance of getting into Stanford, even ranked #1 at a T2 school. I have heard anecdotal evidence that it has happened in the past, but I personally know many people with similar stats to yours who got rejected. You have a slightly better chance (as in non-zero) at Harvard because they take a bigger transfer class. But, I honestly don't think it's worth the risk you would take in turning down Berkeley.

Columbia historically has taken large transfer classes and is less selective for transfer admissions; I'd say you have a decent shot at getting an acceptance. If you really want in, then I'd hold off on accepting Berkeley until the last minute and beg Columbia to make a decision quickly. You can also request and extension of the deadline from Berkeley. One final note: I heard via this forum that there was some serious anti-transfer sentiment at Columbia (they are stealing all our jobs) the year I went through the transfer process. I don't know if that matters to you. I never experienced anything similar at Berkeley.

bruss
Posts: 470
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 3:58 am

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby bruss » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:30 pm

TatteredDignity wrote:
bruss wrote:tl;dr: T2 wanting to go to H Lolz


#4 at a T2 just got into H on Friday. Not that lulzy.


Notice how you wrote, "not that lulzy" instead of "not lulzy".




Anyways, congrats Bro. Nice job, give em hell

yabuddy
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:16 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby yabuddy » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:57 pm

In your post I believe you said that you wanted NYC, but could also see yourself living out in Cali for a long time.

If you go to Berkeley you have the ability to choose between those 2 options. NYC firms go to EIP and Cali firms certainly go there.

If you hold out for Columbia you only really have NYC firms at your disposal, effectively eliminating any opportunity to see if you like it out in Cali. Now I know you could get a job out west with a Columbia degree but the chances of that happening are very, very small.

I hope this helps

ctadash
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:34 am

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby ctadash » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:16 pm

Just accept Berkeley and withdraw once you get into HSC. Berkeley doesn't care if you withdraw or not.

User avatar
Icculus
Posts: 1421
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:02 am

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby Icculus » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:26 pm

ITT, OP asks for advice, doesn't like anyone's advice because everyone seems to agree to take Berkeley, thus OP thinks everyone sucks at giving advice.

On topic: wait until the last moment and take Berkeley. If it is not binding (which I am still confused about) leave open other apps and withdraw.

Xferr
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:24 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby Xferr » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:07 am

Icculus wrote:ITT, OP asks for advice, doesn't like anyone's advice because everyone seems to agree to take Berkeley, thus OP thinks everyone sucks at giving advice.

On topic: wait until the last moment and take Berkeley. If it is not binding (which I am still confused about) leave open other apps and withdraw.


Again, I don't have predisposition one way or the other, but the advice to take Berkeley wasn't helpful. They were either comparing it to T2 (which I said right in the OP is irrelevant because Georgetown, not my T2, is my fallback), or not explaining it at all. But sure, go ahead and read an ulterior motive where there isn't one.



The last page of advice has been very useful. Thanks to recent posters for that. I'm going to ask for another extension and hope that I can get a Penn decision in by the deadline. If not, I'll accept and begin the LR competition to show my commitment. If I get a response from Penn/Mich within a few days, I'll let them know. If they want to let me go at that point, I'll feel much more comfortable reaching for Columbia with a Penn/Mich fallback.

dixon02
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:27 am

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby dixon02 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:58 am

I know you've said that you want the suggestions to accept Berkeley but keep other apps open to stop, but they're not going to. There's a good reason for this. TLS does not like when law schools use their leverage against students and encourages students to push back. It's completely unreasonable for a school to ask you to commit before you've heard back from other schools. They'll be able to fill your spot a month from now.

That said, if you still refuse to consider the option of reneging, you should ask Berkeley to at least have to the end of the week to decide. This will give you time to call the other schools and let them know if your deadline, which you probably should have done by now anyway. There's nothing wrong with telling them that you have x days to decide and would attend their school if accepted but will be forced to withdraw. If you can't get an extension from Boalt, then you'll need to make those calls on Monday and see if they'll bite.

User avatar
quiver
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:46 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby quiver » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:25 am

nleefer wrote:One final note: I heard via this forum that there was some serious anti-transfer sentiment at Columbia (they are stealing all our jobs) the year I went through the transfer process. I don't know if that matters to you. I never experienced anything similar at Berkeley.
This has not been my experience at all.

yabuddy wrote:If you hold out for Columbia you only really have NYC firms at your disposal, effectively eliminating any opportunity to see if you like it out in Cali. Now I know you could get a job out west with a Columbia degree but the chances of that happening are very, very small.
This is not true. People (including transfers) seemed to get CA firms almost at will if they had ties. Obviously tougher without ties but not impossible at all; there are a fair number of Cali firms at EIP.

OP: how miserable would you be at GULC? If you would be okay going there then I'd just hold out for SHC, if you really don't like the idea of GULC at all then maybe committing to Berkeley is the way to go. I honestly think you have a good shot at CLS (especially if your T2 is in the NYC market) but with the unpredictability of transfer admissions I'm not sure if you can take chances into account. In sum, I'd base this decision on your GULC feelings.

Should I Transfer??
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:41 pm

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby Should I Transfer?? » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:37 am

B.
Last edited by Should I Transfer?? on Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
drmguy
Posts: 1016
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:43 am

Re: Accept Berkeley or Hold Out?

Postby drmguy » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:53 am

Should I Transfer?? wrote:Seems like people are trying to give you real advice and you are just rejecting all of it. I voted for you to attend B. You seem like a total douchebag, and I did not apply to B.

Also, it seems like you can just accept B and later withdraw if you get into a school you would prefer. Seems like you are just being over dramatic.

Most of the time people just wait until someone gives the advice they are looking for and they use it to reaffirm what they already believe. Do you blame him/her? Putting your future up to popular vote is terrifying.

OP, call Berkeley and explain your situation. What's the worst that could happen?




Return to “Transfers”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.