Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only available to the creator of each thread. The anonymous posting feature is intended to permit the solicitation of anonymous advice regarding the transfer application process, chances of being accepted, etc. Unacceptable uses include: testing the feature, questions which are clearly fake or hypothetical in nature, harassing other users, etc. Posters should also read and understand the announcements posted at the top of the Transfers forum prior to using the anonymous feature.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
Lawl Shcool
Posts: 763
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby Lawl Shcool » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:24 pm

FWIW, Fish52 is correct in his analysis. You are treated like you were a candidate at your old school, but you get a lil boost for showing the presence of mind to transfer up, and you get the opportunity to get in front of more firms that would have otherwise passed on even giving you a screener. The last point being the most important because if you have the grades to transfer, you have the grades, generally, to get into a big firm.

grok123
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 8:08 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby grok123 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:29 pm

fatduck wrote:
in_reverie wrote:So with all that said, what are the consequences if you renege? I'll admit the language in the acceptance email looks vaguely menacing. But surely other Berkeley admits have accepted then gotten admitted to HYS - you'd think at least a few people would back out every year.

i'm guessing zero consequences. they're just playing on your fears.


The consequences would be if your acceptance in Berkeley is contingent upon withdrawing other apps, you don't withdraw them, somehow Berkeley finds out and withdraws your acceptance and you then don't get any other acceptances.

fish52
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby fish52 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:41 pm

grok123 wrote:
fatduck wrote:
in_reverie wrote:So with all that said, what are the consequences if you renege? I'll admit the language in the acceptance email looks vaguely menacing. But surely other Berkeley admits have accepted then gotten admitted to HYS - you'd think at least a few people would back out every year.

i'm guessing zero consequences. they're just playing on your fears.


The consequences would be if your acceptance in Berkeley is contingent upon withdrawing other apps, you don't withdraw them, somehow Berkeley finds out and withdraws your acceptance and you then don't get any other acceptances.

I can't believe this conversation is even taking place. There would likely be no consequences, but that's not the point. Nearly everything you do in law school will be on the honor system--not to work with other students on take home exams or papers, not to access other files on your computer during exams, not to access certain outside materials while writing LRW/WOA briefs, etc. Boalt students take this very seriously. Asking this question is not a good start to your law school career.

grok123
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 8:08 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby grok123 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:59 pm

fish52 wrote:
grok123 wrote:
fatduck wrote:
in_reverie wrote:So with all that said, what are the consequences if you renege? I'll admit the language in the acceptance email looks vaguely menacing. But surely other Berkeley admits have accepted then gotten admitted to HYS - you'd think at least a few people would back out every year.

i'm guessing zero consequences. they're just playing on your fears.


The consequences would be if your acceptance in Berkeley is contingent upon withdrawing other apps, you don't withdraw them, somehow Berkeley finds out and withdraws your acceptance and you then don't get any other acceptances.

I can't believe this conversation is even taking place. There would likely be no consequences, but that's not the point. Nearly everything you do in law school will be on the honor system--not to work with other students on take home exams or papers, not to access other files on your computer during exams, not to access certain outside materials while writing LRW/WOA briefs, etc. Boalt students take this very seriously. Asking this question is not a good start to your law school career.



The question (I think) people are discussing is what the requirements are - not how to get around them.

in_reverie
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:44 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby in_reverie » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:04 pm

Yeah, I'm more curious than anything. Should I accept I'll withdraw mine - their forgoing a deposit for this setup is something I'd never seen before.

User avatar
InnocuousDiatribe
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:40 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby InnocuousDiatribe » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:08 pm

Ding, just now. T2 (50s), Ranked 7/250. Good luck to everyone else who applied!

transferpotential00
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:31 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby transferpotential00 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:10 pm

Just got a ding via email. UR 6/19. Top 5 (roughly top 5%) in section in T30.

LawStudent4567
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:00 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby LawStudent4567 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:13 pm

Ding. Top 3% TTT

User avatar
fatduck
Posts: 4186
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby fatduck » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:14 pm

grok123 wrote:
fish52 wrote:I can't believe this conversation is even taking place. There would likely be no consequences, but that's not the point. Nearly everything you do in law school will be on the honor system--not to work with other students on take home exams or papers, not to access other files on your computer during exams, not to access certain outside materials while writing LRW/WOA briefs, etc. Boalt students take this very seriously. Asking this question is not a good start to your law school career.


The question (I think) people are discussing is what the requirements are - not how to get around them.

all i said was that berkeley is pretty shitty for using quick admissions and the "honor system" as a way to avoid having to compete with other schools. personally, i think this shows they take "honor" less seriously than you suggest.

i'm not saying this justifies accepting the offer and continuing to pursue other offers.

dtl
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:08 am

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby dtl » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:50 pm

ding

User avatar
donniedarko
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:54 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby donniedarko » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:01 pm

ding 2% t2

User avatar
kapital98
Posts: 1188
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:58 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby kapital98 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:41 pm

I'm out. T1 Top 30% (no surprise)

Also, WTF happened to this thread since I've been gone? It took a very ugly turn on page 4.

haranv
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:48 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby haranv » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:07 pm

dinged TTTT Top 1%

User avatar
Scorch
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby Scorch » Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:22 am

I'll take a shot at this discussion. Absolutely nothing of what I have read on this forum concerning the acceptance of Berkeley's offer, withdrawing other applications, or reneging on an offer approaches dishonesty or a violation of ANY honor code.

First, Berkeley is one of the leading law schools in the country with some of the greatest academic minds. If they wanted to include a requirement to withdraw all other applications when you accepted, I imagine they knew how to do it. Most of us can draw up that agreement after our first year contracts class.

Second, law school acceptance is a business. The quicker a school can firm up their incoming class, the less time they must spend in the admissions process. This translates into money.

Third, I am very certain Berkeley knows when HYS "firms up" their incoming classes. In addition, I am also very sure they are aware of the trickle down effect this has on other school's admission. The fact that they push acceptance early is to minimize the need to shuffle their own class. Again this translates into money. Does it suck for the poor individual waiting to hear from Berkeley? Absolutely. But YOU earned that right with your outstanding performance. Plenty of individuals will gladly take the open seat the day after classes start... Berkeley will be fine.

Let me finish by saying this. After twenty years in the military, serving in every combat theater since 1993, I think I have a pretty good understanding of honor. Moreover, there is a difference between honor and manipulation. When you tell someone you are going to do something, by all means do it; that is honor. However, when a school leans on you to make a decision and tells you what you ought to do or what you "should" have done in an obvious attempt to get you to withdraw other applications, that is manipulation. So, when Berkeley asks you if you are committed to attend you say "yes" (because you are, right up until you receive the acceptance letter from Stanford). Then you accept your offer from Stanford, write an email explaining your decision to Berkeley, and go forward with an outstanding legal career knowing your honor is well intact. Never lie, never deceive, but you do not have to withdrawal all applications unless Berkeley requires it.
So many people put this profession on a pedestal and preach the requirements of honor and integrity to enter. But they have it backwards. It is not the fact that you are a lawyer that will bring you honor, it is your honor that will make the legal profession what it should be.

Stepping off the soap box...

fish52
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby fish52 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:27 am

Scorch wrote:I'll take a shot at this discussion. Absolutely nothing of what I have read on this forum concerning the acceptance of Berkeley's offer, withdrawing other applications, or reneging on an offer approaches dishonesty or a violation of ANY honor code.

First, Berkeley is one of the leading law schools in the country with some of the greatest academic minds. If they wanted to include a requirement to withdraw all other applications when you accepted, I imagine they knew how to do it. Most of us can draw up that agreement after our first year contracts class.

Second, law school acceptance is a business. The quicker a school can firm up their incoming class, the less time they must spend in the admissions process. This translates into money.

Third, I am very certain Berkeley knows when HYS "firms up" their incoming classes. In addition, I am also very sure they are aware of the trickle down effect this has on other school's admission. The fact that they push acceptance early is to minimize the need to shuffle their own class. Again this translates into money. Does it suck for the poor individual waiting to hear from Berkeley? Absolutely. But YOU earned that right with your outstanding performance. Plenty of individuals will gladly take the open seat the day after classes start... Berkeley will be fine.

Let me finish by saying this. After twenty years in the military, serving in every combat theater since 1993, I think I have a pretty good understanding of honor. Moreover, there is a difference between honor and manipulation. When you tell someone you are going to do something, by all means do it; that is honor. However, when a school leans on you to make a decision and tells you what you ought to do or what you "should" have done in an obvious attempt to get you to withdraw other applications, that is manipulation. So, when Berkeley asks you if you are committed to attend you say "yes" (because you are, right up until you receive the acceptance letter from Stanford). Then you accept your offer from Stanford, write an email explaining your decision to Berkeley, and go forward with an outstanding legal career knowing your honor is well intact. Never lie, never deceive, but you do not have to withdrawal all applications unless Berkeley requires it.
So many people put this profession on a pedestal and preach the requirements of honor and integrity to enter. But they have it backwards. It is not the fact that you are a lawyer that will bring you honor, it is your honor that will make the legal profession what it should be.

Stepping off the soap box...


The exact text is: "Since integrity, candor, and keeping one's word are characteristics vital in your chosen profession, I will indicate my trust in you by not requiring a deposit at any time."

Feel to engage in ethical summersaults here, but I think it's pretty clear that the expectation is that if you accept the offer you are giving your "word" that you will attend. While this doesn't explicitly say you must withdraw oustanding applications, it means that if you are accepted off of those other applications you will decline their offers since you have given your "word" to attend Boalt. So what's the point of keeping applications out? If you end up not attending, you did not keep your "word." How else can one understand that? And Dean Tom obviously makes this an issue of honor, or "integrity."

If people are concerned about outstanding applications, they should ask Boalt for an extension of the deadline, and then wait until the very last day to accept. I know that transfers have received extensions in the past.

This is no different than EA at most schools, which includes an understanding that if accepted, you will attend.

There aren't penalties for dishonoring these agreements, but that shouldn't matter.
Last edited by fish52 on Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

fish52
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby fish52 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:29 am

Transfers should feel free to post in the Facebook pages for the Boalt Class of 2014 and Class of 2013 if they have any questions about housing or the Bay Area. A few transfers have already posted, and the group is very welcoming. Everyone is excited to meet you in a few weeks!

User avatar
Scorch
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby Scorch » Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:30 am

I knew Fish would bite. :D You and I read things differently. But I agree with requesting an extension and delaying the decision. However, we can leave the rest as a disagreement of our interpretation of the wording used. I'm quite sure neither of us will convince the other to change opinions.

anonymouse2828
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:14 am

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby anonymouse2828 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:03 am

dinged, TTTT, rank #1, summer intern at decent sized intl firm. :cry:

in_reverie
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:44 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby in_reverie » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:49 pm

To those of you doing the write-on, have you received the registration documents that you're supposed to sign and return? Also, have you turned in your registration fee? I asked about the fee waiver but haven't gotten any word back.

yabuddy
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:16 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby yabuddy » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:24 am

Are most transfers planning on doing the write-on?

I've never written a case note before and feel like it would be a huge time suck to learn how to write one and then try to make one that is good enough to get me on CLR.

Can we just walk-on to the secondary journals? There are a couple that I'm interested in, but don't want to blow off CLR unless I can definitely get on one of the secondaries.

User avatar
Rotor
Posts: 917
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:06 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby Rotor » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:20 am

yabuddy wrote:Are most transfers planning on doing the write-on?
Historically, a smaller percentage of the transfer class signs up to do the write on. That said, the percentage accepted of those who do complete the write on is roughly comparable to the non-transfer rate.

yabuddy wrote:I've never written a case note before and feel like it would be a huge time suck to learn how to write one and then try to make one that is good enough to get me on CLR.
Most people have never written a case note, so it is a level playing field. It's no different than writing any paper you did in college. Just follow the directions and have at it. My advice: develop an interesting thesis. It doesn't have to be unique or earthshattering. Don't merely summarize the case law.

yabuddy wrote:Can we just walk-on to the secondary journals? There are a couple that I'm interested in, but don't want to blow off CLR unless I can definitely get on one of the secondaries.
Yes you can. But don't blow off CLR. It is well worth the effort.

(in case it wasn't clear, I am a CLR alumnus)

in_reverie
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:44 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby in_reverie » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:09 pm

So should I be seeing these write-on docs somewhere or...?

User avatar
lisavj
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:42 pm

Re: Transfer to Berkeley waiting thread 2012

Postby lisavj » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:19 pm

in_reverie wrote:So should I be seeing these write-on docs somewhere or...?


The google docs link did not work for me...




Return to “Transfers”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.