Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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LTH147
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Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby LTH147 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:56 pm

I'm finishing up my 1L year and trying to decide if a transfer would be worth it. I'm top 2% at a T2 in NYC with prior legal experience. I'm on a full scholarship, so if I decide to stay where I am, I will only be paying for the cost of living for the next two years. This was a big part of my decision to attend my current school, since I am taking out loans to pay for law school.

I'm looking to stay in NYC, so Columbia/NYU/Fordham are the schools I was thinking about. Are my improved job prospects worth taking on much more significant debt? Will it matter that my rank will undoubtedly go down? If I remain approximately where I am (within the top 10%) and make LR at my current school, how different are my job prospects if I'm median at Columbia/NYU/Fordham?

I'm interested in big law, but also considering being an ADA or public interest work.

Thanks in advance!

kaiser
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby kaiser » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:59 pm

LTH147 wrote:I'm finishing up my 1L year and trying to decide if a transfer would be worth it. I'm top 2% at a T2 in NYC with prior legal experience. I'm on a full scholarship, so if I decide to stay where I am, I will only be paying for the cost of living for the next two years. This was a big part of my decision to attend my current school, since I am taking out loans to pay for law school.

I'm looking to stay in NYC, so Columbia/NYU/Fordham are the schools I was thinking about. Are my improved job prospects worth taking on much more significant debt? Will it matter that my rank will undoubtedly go down? If I remain approximately where I am (within the top 10%) and make LR at my current school, how different are my job prospects if I'm median at Columbia/NYU/Fordham?

I'm interested in big law, but also considering being an ADA or public interest work.

Thanks in advance!


If you somehow stay in the top 2%, I would just stay, since you will almost certainly be among those at Cardozo/Brooklyn that line up biglaw jobs. But if you drop (assuming your drop is within a range that still allows you to transfer), I'd pull the trigger and transfer. I think dropping to 10% would probably put you too low to transfer. At my T25, I don't think anyone outside of the top 10% managed to transfer into a CCN. As for Fordham, I don't think they let transfers do OCI (though someone please correct me if I'm wrong), so don't bother with that school. Only worth it for NYU/CLS

Scottie2Hottie
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby Scottie2Hottie » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:01 pm

Cant offer much help, just heard from many different posters on TLS that Fordham does not permit transfer students to partake in OCI. Definitely will hurt job prospects transferring there. Also, you would have to get into NYU/Columbia first

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monkey85
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby monkey85 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:02 pm

Maybe you can email the adcomms of Columbia and NYU, ask them if you can contact some transfer students for advice.

They can tell you why they initially decided to transfer and, now having been in the new school for a year, whether it was worth it in hindsight.

LTH147
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby LTH147 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:05 pm

Scottie2Hottie wrote:Cant offer much help, just heard from many different posters on TLS that Fordham does not permit transfer students to partake in OCI. Definitely will hurt job prospects transferring there. Also, you would have to get into NYU/Columbia first


Yeah I agree, Fordham is definitely not a good option. I realize that NYU/Columbia are still definitely long shot, but I don't want to go through the whole process and then end up staying at my current school anyway. Thanks tho!

Scottie2Hottie
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby Scottie2Hottie » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:13 pm

True. I do not think that they are long shots by any means tho. If you haven't read this I highly recommend it.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=82937

Also might want to look at yahoo group of transfer students and look at the database for some comparables

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quiver
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby quiver » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:14 pm

LTH147 wrote:I'm looking to stay in NYC, so Columbia/NYU/Fordham are the schools I was thinking about.
I wouldn't bother with Fordham. As others have said, you can't participate in OCI and you'll probably have as good (if not better shot) from where you are.
LTH147 wrote:Are my improved job prospects worth taking on much more significant debt?
Very personal decision. Cannot say definitively for sure. But two main ways for this to go is: 1) you could land biglaw and pay off your debt that way or 2) go the gov/PI route and use the CLS/NYU LRAP to pay back your loans. That's what eventually tipped me in favor of transferring. PM if you want more details.
LTH147 wrote:Will it matter that my rank will undoubtedly go down?
Yes, in the sense that if you drop too much then transferring to CLS/NYU will not even be possible. Obviously it would also make it somewhat more difficult to obtain a job from your current school.
LTH147 wrote:If I remain approximately where I am (within the top 10%) and make LR at my current school, how different are my job prospects if I'm median at Columbia/NYU/Fordham?
In terms of biglaw, this should not really be a concern. OCI will take place in August of your rising 2L summer and you will therefore have no grades at your transfer school when all the significant biglaw hiring is done (OCI lands you an SA which almost always lands you a permanent job). If you're thinking about clerkships, it will matter a lot more, in the sense that you'll probably need to transfer AND do well at your new school to have the best shot at clerkships (assuming AIII clerkships). I can't really comment meaningfully on gov/PI stuff other than to say that these jobs are extremely competitive and almost non-existent for recent grads.

Scottie2Hottie
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby Scottie2Hottie » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:16 pm

Another good forum for ya. Dude transferred from t2 to columbia.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=182225

CanadianWolf
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:21 pm

Apply to Harvard Law School in addition to Columbia & NYU. Then repost when you have actual options & a class rank based on your full first year.

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rayiner
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby rayiner » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:22 pm

Apply to U Chicago ED. They accept after one semester.

LTH147
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby LTH147 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:39 pm

Thanks everyone. I am definitely going to wait until my second semester grades come out before deciding to apply. Is Harvard really worth an app? Didn't think I had a chance honestly.

keg411
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby keg411 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:40 pm

rayiner wrote:Apply to U Chicago ED. They accept after one semester.


Chicago just doesn't like T2 people at all. I mean, OP can try, but should basically expect to get outright rejected. I was warned about this before I applied last year, but didn't listen.

OP, just apply to NYU/CLS. You have an excellent shot of getting into one as long as you keep your grades. Otherwise, there is no reason to leave unless you want to get out of NYC (then consider Penn, Michigan, Northwestern, etc.). Also, forget Fordham.

Renzo
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby Renzo » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:55 pm

Transferring to Fordham would be a waste. It's a good, but regional, school; so it won't open any doors that aren't already open to you (assuming you keep your grades up).

mrloblaw
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby mrloblaw » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:15 pm

Did everyone miss the part about the full scholly? Top 2% at any reputable law school with a full scholarship sounds better to me than CCN sticker, especially if it's a school that typically places its best into biglaw. Exception: you absolutely know that you'll be using LRAP (and how can you know before being hired?).

I'd throw an app at Harvard, though. Your shot at the golden ticket isn't that bad.

keg411
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby keg411 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:24 pm

mrloblaw wrote:Did everyone miss the part about the full scholly?


I did. :oops:

concurrent fork
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby concurrent fork » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:34 pm

mrloblaw wrote:Did everyone miss the part about the full scholly? Top 2% at any reputable law school with a full scholarship sounds better to me than CCN sticker, especially if it's a school that typically places its best into biglaw. Exception: you absolutely know that you'll be using LRAP (and how can you know before being hired?).

I'd throw an app at Harvard, though. Your shot at the golden ticket isn't that bad.

This.

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Indifferent
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby Indifferent » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:36 pm

With Full Scholly + top 5% you will undoubtedly get some biglaw, probably at a good firm. Your prospects for getting a better firm will probably increase at CCN, but probably not by too much.

You'd be taking out almost 3x the debt transferring. I just don't see the justification in transferring unless you're set on a more prestigious firm/academia/prestigious clerkship.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:46 pm

My best guess is that with top 2% or so & great recommendations, Harvard is definitely worth an application.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:46 pm

Hmmm...

I think if you could get H/Y/S it would def be worth it... but that isn't what you are asking. At very top of class at T2 I think you are just as likely to get biglaw as at a CCN really... But the name of the school would be nice to have on resume for perpetuity (at least CC). I would go with the early application to Chicago, and go if you get in. If you can maintain top 2% next semester I think you have some shot at one of the top 3 schools. At the very top of your class at T2 I think that really you are prob just as likely to get biglaw as if you transfer. But if you are willing to pay the premium it may in fact be nice to have Columbia on the resume instead of crap school x (j.k. T2 isn't so bad).

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patrickd139
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:59 pm

My understanding is that you would likely end up with 'biglaw' where you are, but if you transferred, it would just be transferring up the AmLaw, Vault or NLJ rankings as far as your SA goes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

Also, don't transfer to Fordham, given everything you already have (scholly, rank, etc.).

LTH147
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby LTH147 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:17 pm

I really appreciate all the feedback and I do have a lot to think about (and a lot of studying to do). Giving up my full scholarship is obviously one of the huge drawbacks of transferring. The fact that my chances at biglaw are good from my current school (assuming I don't drop significantly this semester) makes me hesitant to transfer, especially considering the debt I'd have to take on. I'm still a little worried about biglaw from my current school, since the statistics/amount of firms that participate is discouraging. At this point, I'm going to see how my spring grades turn out and re-evaluate.

Renzo
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby Renzo » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:18 pm

mrloblaw wrote:Did everyone miss the part about the full scholly? Top 2% at any reputable law school with a full scholarship sounds better to me than CCN sticker, especially if it's a school that typically places its best into biglaw. Exception: you absolutely know that you'll be using LRAP (and how can you know before being hired?).

I'd throw an app at Harvard, though. Your shot at the golden ticket isn't that bad.


I didn't, and that's why I didn't opine on whether or not a transfer to CLS/NYU would be a good idea. Those schools really will open up opportunities that do not exist at BLS or 'Bozo. However, very top of the class at those schools is an excellent place to be for NYC biglaw, prestigious local gov't gigs, AUSA, etc., and it's free. I think only the OP can decide if the shot at a few superstar jobs is worth the $100k difference in tuition over two years.

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patrickd139
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:26 pm

Renzo wrote:solid advice

Sometimes I can't tell who you're trolling with your 'tars. :lol:

jemes21
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby jemes21 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:38 pm

LTH147 wrote:I really appreciate all the feedback and I do have a lot to think about (and a lot of studying to do). Giving up my full scholarship is obviously one of the huge drawbacks of transferring. The fact that my chances at biglaw are good from my current school (assuming I don't drop significantly this semester) makes me hesitant to transfer, especially considering the debt I'd have to take on. I'm still a little worried about biglaw from my current school, since the statistics/amount of firms that participate is discouraging. At this point, I'm going to see how my spring grades turn out and re-evaluate.


I was in a similar situation - NYC T2 and transferred to CCN. Just wanted to throw out a few more things for you to consider:

If you're very likely to grade onto LR, how did LR at your school do at OCI last year? I believe two years ago (at Cardozo at least) there were folks that were in the top 10% (graded onto LR) that didn't get 2L SAs - but I'm not sure how the market changed/improved in the past year.

Also, are you looking to land ANY biglaw job or are you hoping for certain firms. You could probably get a biglaw offer (or a few) from your T2, but transferring could leave you with significantly more choices, and probably, this would include choices from higher ranked firms. You may or may not care about that - its pretty subjective - but something else to consider when making a choice.

Good luck - feel free to PM if you have more specific questions.

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TTRansfer
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Re: Is it worth it? Transferring in NYC

Postby TTRansfer » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:34 pm

I posted in the GW thread and got a few answers about this, but hopefully I can get some more perspective in this thread.

I have a really nice SA job lined up at an NLJ 250 law firm. They essentially told me at OCI that they expect whoever they took as a 1L to stay with them as a 2L and then with the firm after (which was pretty awesome to hear). I really like the firm and am positioned in a secondary market for it for the summer.

Question really is should I actually transfer? I am already in at GW and praying that I get in at Georgetown.

I don't think that they would, say, ban me from coming back to the office as a new school would be a massive step up in prestige from where I am currently at. And I could see myself staying there as I like the area, generally, and love the people at the firm (at least from when I interviewed with them!!).

But transferring would at least give me a degree that should let me transfer within the firms offices in the future if I wanted to. I would 99% likely be region-locked if I graduate from my current school. I can't see it having any real appeal outside of its main region. I would love to get a shot at interviewing with some other top firms, but I may even turn down any offers from them if this summer goes well (as I think it will) out of (perhaps stupidly) a sense of loyalty for this firm.

Either way, the decision is achingly tough for me, so far. Any advice?




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