Northwestern - worth it?

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eastcoast_iub
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Northwestern - worth it?

Postby eastcoast_iub » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:06 pm

I am currently considering xferring and am looking for BigLaw in the northeast corridor, preferably DC, but also NY or Philly if need be. I am on a $40k scholly at a T23 (3 guesses which one) and previously thought that it would only be worth tranferring to T10 east coast schools.

However, I came across an interesting article where Princeton Review ranked Northwestern #1 for law school career prospects, although they are only #8 for NLJ250 placement.

http://www.princetonreview.com/schools/ ... id=1035807

I don't know what methodology was employed in this study, but this got me wondering whether it would be worth it for me give up my scholly to go to Northwestern, given my goal of returning to the east coast. Thoughts?

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IAFG
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby IAFG » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:08 pm

I don't think the question is really, "how is Northwestern's placement generally?" (which is excellent). The question is, "how is Northwestern's transfer placement?" which I think is less impressive, but it's up to you to figure that out. I only have a handful of anecdotes to go off of.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby bk1 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:11 pm

The Princeton Review rankings are worthless. It's also important to note that NLJ250 fluctuates year to year.

As IAFG noted, you should figure how NU transfers generally do compared to transfers at other T14's.

eastcoast_iub
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby eastcoast_iub » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:14 pm

I would like to go off of more than anecdotal evidence in assessing transfer placement, but I don't know where I would get any statistics about this.

And why would transfer placement be any different than that of other students? Is there any systematic disadvantage to transfer students in OCI or it just that certain schools do not place them as well?

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johansantana21
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:15 pm

eastcoast_iub wrote:I would like to go off of more than anecdotal evidence in assessing transfer placement, but I don't know where I would get any statistics about this.

And why would transfer placement be any different than that of other students? Is there any systematic disadvantage to transfer students in OCI or it just that certain schools do not place them as well?


Transfer stigma. Also some schools don't allow transfer to do OCI (Cornell).

eastcoast_iub
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby eastcoast_iub » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:17 pm

It's interesting that you talk about transfer stigma, b/c I see others on here talking about how employers love transfers.

To me, it would seem that employers would be partial to transfers, b/c the fact that you transferred alone demonstrates your initiative and your ability.

Is it just that they may be viewed as inferior since they could not initially gain acceptance?

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johansantana21
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:21 pm

eastcoast_iub wrote:It's interesting that you talk about transfer stigma, b/c I see others on here talking about how employers love transfers.

To me, it would seem that employers would be partial to transfers, b/c the fact that you transferred alone demonstrates your initiative and your ability.

Is it just that they may be viewed as inferior since they could not initially gain acceptance?


Speaking out of my ass, I think it depends what school you transferred from.

eastcoast_iub
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby eastcoast_iub » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:24 pm

Ace Ventura-style ass talk aside, I would think that coming from a T25 would be enough to confer some kind of legitimacy. It would seem that the stigma would be more of an issue for lower-tier students.

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tww909
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby tww909 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:56 pm

missing the real issue here.

what are your grades at IUB?

if you're #1 in the class with legit east coast ties and IUB places decently on the east coast for people in a similar position (something i don't know, but others may) then the calculation of whether it's worth it will look a lot different.

eastcoast_iub
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby eastcoast_iub » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:03 pm

I am top 5% based on last year's numbers (no rankings til end of year). I am from MD with 7-years W/E. We place decently in DC (3rd-biggest market), although not that many big firms recruit here.

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JoeFish
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby JoeFish » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:14 pm

I sort of understand from reading stuff on this thread - and I may be way off on this - that at Northwestern, it's a little tougher than at most T14s for transfers in part because >98% of the people already there have WE, and if you transfer there with no WE, or just 1 or 2 years, you might not get much consideration from some employers who are going there expecting everyone they interview will have some really significant WE.

I sort of got this from reading a couple posts on here (I don't remember specifics), and as such, this could be complete gibberish. Anyone know one way or the other?

The only reason I say this is because, if it's true, and you have 7 years of WE, you might have a bit of a leg up on the rest of the transfer class. As to whether that will increase your employment situation (geographically and otherwise) enough to justify the cost increase and whatnot, well, that's more difficult. I assume that if you want to get back east and are looking at NU, you'll probably also try for CCN and P (and maybe M)?

eastcoast_iub
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby eastcoast_iub » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:35 pm

Yeah, the cost tradeoff if this key. I've already decided that it'd be worth it for Columbia, Penn, and UVA.

I'm just trying to think about whether NU would be worth it as a fallback if I couldn't get into those (and Michigan for that matter, based on my target market).

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IAFG
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby IAFG » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:32 pm

eastcoast_iub wrote:Yeah, the cost tradeoff if this key. I've already decided that it'd be worth it for Columbia, Penn, and UVA.

I'm just trying to think about whether NU would be worth it as a fallback if I couldn't get into those (and Michigan for that matter, based on my target market).

I PM'd you, but I'll post it here for lurkers; the problem with NU is that the "smaller" and less selective firms (which you'll need in case you fail to get V100) at NU will mostly be midwestern. UVA is a much better bet for Nova, Richmond and other smaller east coast markets. Still, I think it would be a mistake for someone in your shoes not to massmail all to hell whether you get UVA or not, because I've seen IUB's job numbers, and they're terrifying.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:51 am

Try for Michigan. Take Northwestern over Indiana.

seattlegirl
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Re: Northwestern - worth it?

Postby seattlegirl » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:12 am

I transferred to Northwestern this year. The people that I know who transferred seem to have gotten biglaw jobs through OCI at about the same rate as the people who did their 1L year at NU (this is based on conversations that I have had with a bunch of NU students). So, I don't think there is any transfer stigma...or at least I have never felt any. Us transfers became quick friends, but I have developed some great friendships with non-transfers as well.

But a couple of things to keep in mind about transferring:
(1) The OCI process is really a crapshoot...you either end up with multiple job offers or you get none; there is really no rhyme or reason to why someone gets an offer and another doesn't (barring the tipity top of the NU 1L class who are all but guaranteed to get jobs). However, I do think that having relevant and significant work experience helps a lot in the OCI interview process...and this remains true for transfers. Most people only have a couple of years of work experience...so if you have 5+ years of experience, that will likely set you apart.
(2) Northwestern (and likely many other T14s) give you access to employers that you might not have had at your old school. Since the OCI process (at least at NU) is based on students bidding against one another, you interview with the firms you really want. This means that OCI bidding strategy is extremely important. You need to try to get as many interviews as possible and target markets where you want to work and have ties. Firms do not select the student...the student selects the firm...this is different from many other schools.
(3) Which brings me to a key thing that I personally think makes a BIG difference in OCI - having a tie to the market(s) that you target. Firms want to know that you want to work in a certain geographical area and will accept their offer should you get one from them. If you don't have a tie to a city that you think you want to work in, do your 1L summer in that city so that you can have a compelling argument for why you want to work in that city. If you are dead-set on going to a particular city, target that city like crazy (going to various career fairs there, etc).
* The exception to this rule seems to be NYC because if you are a NYC type of person and can show them that (and that you love NYC), ties do not seem to be necessary. The one NYC firm that I interviewed with at OCI did ask me a lot about why NYC when I had lived on the West Coast all my life, and I didn't have a great answer...so, alas, I didn't get a callback. I do know transfers who got NYC biglaw without ties though (so that is why I say that it is the exception to this rule about ties).

I would recommend applying to Northwestern if you are thinking about transferring. It is a great school, and I am blessed to have been able to transfer and do not regret my decision one bit! The faculty is top-notch, and the school gives you a ton of flexibility in planning your law studies. Feel free to ping me if you have more questions about transferring to Northwestern.

JoeFish wrote:I sort of understand from reading stuff on this thread - and I may be way off on this - that at Northwestern, it's a little tougher than at most T14s for transfers in part because >98% of the people already there have WE, and if you transfer there with no WE, or just 1 or 2 years, you might not get much consideration from some employers who are going there expecting everyone they interview will have some really significant WE.

I sort of got this from reading a couple posts on here (I don't remember specifics), and as such, this could be complete gibberish. Anyone know one way or the other?

The only reason I say this is because, if it's true, and you have 7 years of WE, you might have a bit of a leg up on the rest of the transfer class. As to whether that will increase your employment situation (geographically and otherwise) enough to justify the cost increase and whatnot, well, that's more difficult. I assume that if you want to get back east and are looking at NU, you'll probably also try for CCN and P (and maybe M)?




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